Quote:
Originally Posted by btcarfagno
Brooks Robinson was pretty much as good a hitter as Traynor (as you said...104 OPS+ for Robby versus 107 for Traynor) and he sustained that level for over 3,500 more plate appearances than did Traynor. Thus being that kind of hitter for six more full seasons than did Traynor. And if you want to discuss defense and try to compare the two as being in the same stratosphere it would be a losing argument on your part. Robinson was a slightly above average hitter for almost 12,000 plate appearances and the best defense player ever at his position. So yes. He belongs in the Hall, although in the lower tier.
Players who had a higher slugging percentage as a Pirate during Pie Traynors years there who were apparently not as adversely affected by the huge park as poor ol' Pie was:
Kiki Cuyler
Paul Waner
George Grantham
Max Carey (6 year period)
Glenn Wright (5 year period)
Gus Suhr
All of their career slugging numbers as a member of a Pirates team alongside Pie Traynor are higher than Traynor.
My list of better third basemen than Pie Traynor before he played:
Home Run Baker
Jimmy Collins
Heinie Groh
Larry Gardner (maybe a tie)
And players who came more towards the end of Traynor's career who were better:
Pinky Higgins
Stan Hack
Harlond Clift (not sure...Clift much better over much shorter time)
Pie Traynor was basically George Kell during a more offensive era and with better teammates.
I don't dislike Traynor. I agree that during the period 1922-1935 he was the best third baseman in the game overall. But only in maybe four of five of those individual years was he the best, and on his own team he may have had one year where he was the best. Very good player. Just not a HOFer. And I put little stock in any body that votes for Joe Tinker for the HOF.
Tom C
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"He was a mechanically perfect third baseman." Branch Rickey
"The greatest team player I ever saw." John McGraw
"Watching Traynor play was like looking over daVinci's shoulder." Red Smith
"Most marvelous pair hands you'd ever want to see." Billy Herman
"Pie had the quickest hands, the quickest arm of any third baseman." Charlie Grimm
He wasn't better than Brooks, but he was the best of the prewar era. His peers considered him the best, better than any of the players on "your list." I value their opinions over those of people who never saw him play and just want to hate on him. In 1947 Baker received 49 votes for the HOF, Traynor 119. Baker better than Pie? Lol.