[Archive]

Posted By: Robert_Lifson

There have been posts recently on this message board by David Rudd suggesting that photographs in the recent REA auction are not authentic. As a courtesy, a fellow collector has brought this to my attention, and eventually directed me to this site. By the way, this message board is great. Anyway, it is understandable that I would be very concerned about reports of not authentic items in our auction, especially when those reports are from someone as respected and knowledgeable as David Rudd, who has even written a book on the subject of photographs. I have a lot of respect for Mr. Rudd’s knowledge, and have even occasionally used his book as a valuable reference tool. I would have asked for more information from anyone about a report of a non-authentic item in our auction, all the more so if that report came from someone who I understand to be extremely knowledgeable. I make this post at the risk of alienating Mr. Rudd, which I very much do not want to do, and I am uncomfortable making this post because of that. But I am even more uncomfortable not making this post. As things stand, I may have a potential forgery in the auction, which I would like to address before it is paid for and sent out, and cannot (because I don’t know what the item is), I have posts on a public forum stating that Robert Edward Auctions has offered and sold a forgery in the recent auction, I have two auction winners who would like assurances that the photos they have purchased in the auction are not the fake photo that has referred to on this board; and lastly, it has been suggested to me that at least one person believes that Robert Edward Auctions has somehow influenced Mr. Rudd to not speak out about the problem lot in question so that we will not lose our commissions on this item (when nothing could be further from the truth). This just isn’t right. I am posting my communications with Mr. Rudd regarding this issue. The emails I believe speak for themselves. I hope that Mr. Rudd will forgive that I have chosen not to ignore this issue. If not, I am sorry. In no way do I mean to show any disrespect to David Rudd. I am just very uncomfortable with the impression that is left by the posts that have been made, the impact these posts are having on our purchasers, the idea that it is possible that we really do have a problem lot and are unable to address it, and that our response to these issues is not in any way reflected anywhere, and that in fact a completely inaccurate impression is being given. If anyone on this board can help us identify what photograph is being referred to, I would very much appreciate it, so that we can address it before the lot gets paid for and sent out. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Robert Lifson
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC


From: Robert Lifson [info@robertedwardauctions.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 5:56 PM
To: cycleback@cycleback.com
Subject: REA Auction Problem Lot?

Hi David!
A participant in our auction has contacted us about a potential problem lot in our auction. Apparently there is a chat room site in which photographs in the auction are being discussed and he said that you said that a photograph in our sale was not authentic. He didn't have the information as to which lot was at issue. We really appreciate any feedback about problem lots we can get. If this is accurate could you tell me what photograph is a potential forgery so I can look into it immediately? We have just sent out invoices but if we have made an error we would very much like to address immediately. Of course I hope that the communication regarding there being such a problem is in error, or if it is not that you have made an error, but there is always the possibility that there is an error and the error is ours, so all I can do is follow up with direct communication with you so I can address the issue. I know you are very knowlegable about photographs so when this information comes from you there is all the more reason to follow up and try to get more information. I tried to call you but the # was busy, I hope you will get this email and be able to get back to me soon. Thank you!
Sincerely,
Robert Lifson
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com


From: cycleback@cycleback.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:37 PM
To: Robert Lifson
Subject: Re: REA Auction Problem Lot?

Hello,

I have decided to drop the entire issue. I'm sure you guys are working too hard to need me budding my nose into your work. In short, don't let the issue be of bother.

In the future, if you wish me to quickly review actions before they come live, I would be happy to do that. I can effectively weed out many mistakes and do 'quality control' before the auction starts From a personal standpoint, I prefer to address issues before an auction starts rather than face the inevitable controversy (like the President of the auction house emailing me!) when bringing up issues when the action has started or the auction has ended. I have advised Kevin Struss for MastroNet and have examined some photos via mail for Kevin.

Glad to see that your auction did well. Never dreamed of seeing a Boston Garter Mathewson!

Best wishes
David Rudd
www.cycleback.com


From: Robert Lifson [info@robertedwardauctions.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 9:53 PM
To: cycleback@cycleback.com
Subject: Re: REA Auction Problem Lot?


Hi David! We are never working too hard to address significant mistakes! We don't consider feedback about mistakes "budding" in, we consider it a great service. Many times issues have been brought to my attention by readers. The collective knowledge of the entire world will always be greater than my own knowledge, so that really makes sense. I even go so far as to invite feedback from collectors in our catalog guide text. People who know more than I do about items we have catalogued where we have made a mistake are an incredibly valuable resource which I very much appreciate. This may be a little different approach than some take. It has always been my approach. When I am perfect and beyond making an error, I'm sure I will be properly recognized by the Vatican, but until then I will just try to do the best job I can!

If we have a photo that you think might not be real, I would really like to know which it is and why. Of course I would have liked to have known earlier, before the auction went live, but I did not learn of a potential issue until today. If there is a fake photo in the auction, I would like to not have it sold to the winner. That would be the only responsible thing to do of course. Maybe I would not agree with you about the item. Maybe I would reexamine it and say, "Gosh, what a stupid mistake I made". Or maybe it is not an obvious problem, and one that I would have never caught without your assistance. In either of these cases, I would still appreciate your feedback. That's how we find out about some problems that we would otherwise not learn about, and otherwise never address.

If we have a fake in the auction, it would be infinitely more desirable to learn of this and to verify this and to rectify this now, rather than later (months or years later, or perhaps never), after the buyer has paid, and after the consignor has been paid. I hope you can help point us to the lot in question, and if it not obvious, give us information about why it is a fake (if that is the issue with the photo).

Sincerely,
Robert Lifson

PS Remind me tell my wife how important I am when I am doing the dishes and taking out the garbage later tonight, thanks!


From: Cycleback [cycleback@cycleback.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:20 AM
To: Robert Lifson
Subject: Re: REA Auction Problem Lot?

Robert, again I've decided to drop the issue. If you ever wish me to review material before the auction's start I will be happy to do that.

Of side note, I've been working on again/off again working on a page concerning the deification, dating and authentication of photographs. Stuffing as much stuff per square inch as possible, and hope to eventually provide material up to today's photographs (Probably at 1930s now). http://www.cycleback.com/photoguide/

Thanks again
David


From: Robert Lifson [info@robertedwardauctions.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2004 9:59 AM
To: cycleback@cycleback.com
Subject: Re: REA Auction Problem Lot?

Hi David! I have been directed to the Network 54 message posting site in question. I believe that it is very irresponsible for you to be posting claims of this type in a public forum. We don't have a problem with you communicating about problem lots. We obviously encourage this. But for such anyone, let alone a very knowlegable person such as yourself, to post in a public forum that we are selling fake items, and to not communicate directly with us about the item in question to allow us to assess and address the potential problem, and then to refuse to tell us what you are talking about even when we contact you, well, this is irresponsible. This makes Robert Edward Auctions look very bad. Simply put, this is unfair to us. This is America, and if you choose to not tell us about a potential mistake, that is your choice. It is not what we would like and does not make any sense to us, but it is of course your choice. But if you insist on not sharing this information with us, then it is not appropriate or reasonable or responsible for you to be telling the world in mysterious posts that we are selling fake items. This is not right. I'm not sure what else to say other than I believe that while I have no doubt your intentions were only the best and you were, I think, trying to provide some type of service to the collecting world, from my perspective you have provided a great disservice to Robert Edward Auctions (and, if you are correct that an item we are selling is in fact not authentic, a great disservice to a purchaser as well), and promoted an air of distrust in the collecting community with our catalog descriptions that we do not desreve. I hope you will appreciate my reasoning. I am not trying to be argumentative, just trying to communicate my thoughts on this matter from one gentleman to another. Sincerely, Robert Lifson





-----Original Message-----
From: Cycleback [cycleback@cycleback.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:15 PM
To: Robert Lifson
Subject: Re: REA Auction Problem Lot?



Hello Robert, I've retracted everything I said about any photograph and I wish you would forget the entire issue. I removed or fixed everything I said on the board. Almost no one has shown any interest in what I said and, except for you, no one has contacted me about this subject. Though I've done a lot of work concerning photographs and prints over the years, I've never gotten any sort of salary (as in about $0). This is why I specifically balk at getting involved in controversies and why I regret making a post on the subject at all. I plan on not commenting on any ongoing auctions at all anymore, unless a bidder has a specific query.

I'm sorry for any trouble this may have caused and I wish I had never
brought up the subject in the first place.
Thanks
David