Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60
Hof voters are more qualified than you, lol. They saw Traynor, Baker and Collins play and they overwhelmingly believed that Pie was the best. All you care about is one offensive stat, OPS+, and ignore the rest. Most importantly, you completely ignore defense at a time when the position was primarily a defensive one. Pie was a better all around player than either Baker or Collins and it isn't close, just ask John McGraw who also played the position.
Graig Nettles, Ken Boyer, Buddy Bell, Sal Bando, Darrell Evens, Ron Cey and Toby Harrah all had a higher OPS+ than Brooks Robinson. Why aren't they all in the HoF? Your simplistic argument is that if a player has a higher OPS, we should ignore all other batting stats and defense. Sorry, that is ridiculous. Players aren't elected to the HoF strictly on offense.
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Players on your list:
Graig Nettles
Ken Boyer
Buddy Bell
Sal Bando
Darrell Evans
Ron Cey
Toby Harrah
Players on your list who were better 3B than Pie Traynor:
Graig Nettles (insanely better 3B than Traynor)
Ken Boyer (insanely better 3B than Pie Traynor)
Buddy Bell (insanely better 3B than Pie Traynor)
Sal Bando (insanely better 3B than Pie Traynor)
Darrell Evans
Ron Cey
Do they belong in the HOF? Not saying that. Just that they are all (minus Toby Harrah) better than Pie Traynor.
I would also add the following non-HOF 3B as easily better than Pie Traynor:
Scott Rolen
Robin Ventura
Stan Hack
Bob Elliot
Heinie Groh
Matt Williams
Others who a good argument could be made that they are better than Traynor:
Tommy Leach
Troy Glaus
Tim Wallach
Gary Gaetti
Ken Caminiti
So, by the time of Traynor's retirement, the following players were better or a good argument could be made that they were better, than Pie Traynor:
Frank Baker
Jimmy Collins
Heinie Groh
Tommy Leach
Your statement that Traynor is "better all around" than Baker and Jimmy Collins is laughably inaccurate. Collins was at least as good a hitter and far better defensively. Baker was a far better hitter and at least Traynor's equal defensively, if not slightly better.
Tom C