Posted By:
boxingcardmanGuys whose careers don't follow the exact patterns familiar to HOF voters but who should be in there if it is to be a hall of fame connected with baseball:
Lefty O'Doul: http://imageevent.com/exhibitman/frankleftyodoulcard
Gil Hodges: As a pure player, no. Combined with his record as a manager, heck yes!
Joe Torre: Same as Hodges but very likely will get in when he retires or dies.
Buck O'Neil: taken as a whole, should be in there.
Don Newcombe: I was privileged to spend an afternoon talking baseball with Mr. Newcombe a few years ago. Nevermind the racism that kept him out of organized baseball for several years; he was held back in the minors as well. He told me that the Dodgers brass informed him on no uncertain terms that they would not be bringing up multiple black players, which forced him to spend two extra years in the minors as he waited his turn to be brought into the majors, despite being ready to pitch at the major league level. Newk's first three seasons were 17-8, 19-11 and 20-9. He then got drafted and came back from the Army with 20-5 and 27-7. I think it is fair to say that he lost about 40 wins as a result of being held in the minors two extra seasons, which would have put him right around 195-199 wins overall and several years as a dominant pitcher.
Orestes Minoso: Honestly, I'm torn over this one. On the one hand, he definitely lost something due to racism. On the other hand, he debuted in 1949 at 23 years old and tore up the league with a .188 average and was sent to the minors for seasoning, coming back in 1951. I don't think hitting the majors at 23 shows palpable effects of racism, especially when he wasn't exactly scintillating when he was given the chance. Contrast that with Monte Irvin, who debuted at age 30 in 1949 and was definitely screwed out of several years of his career and thus has a legitimate Negro Leage/MLB aggregate career claim. Minoso was an interesting, colorful character but falls a bit shy of HOF caliber and wasn't affected enough by the exclusionary rules to give him a bye on that one. And FWIW, Willie Mays is only 2 years younger than Minoso.
Bob, you're right about Oliva. To even consider Minoso, Oliver, Lee Maye (?) before him is a travesty.
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc