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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Well, not surprisingly, I haven’t heard from Luis (Mr. O) denying that "Michael" is indeed posting for him, so for this post I will assume that to be true. I won’t post his full name, either, but his 1st name is Luis. I realize that the code name "Michael" is using for Luis is "Mr. O" as in the letter "O", but I will refer to him using the number "0" or "El Cero" as he will now be known. I’m not really sure where to begin with all of this, but I suppose I’ll just respond to the many points "Michael" is claiming as true. I’ll try to be clear about when I am quoting and when I am responding. I wish I knew how to make certain sentences bold or in italics, but I don’t. Here goes:

1. MICHAEL: "…the debate which we can call: Ryan vs. The Owner."

1A. RESPONSE: A more appropriate title would be "Ryan vs. All The Damn Fake Cuban Baseball Cards Out There And The Scumbags Who Make Them." Until your post, I had nothing against the owner, El Cero. I certainly have nothing against Marcos, the seller (kubaneo). Does "The Owner" you refer to fall into the category of "Scumbags Who Make Fake Cuban Baseball Cards?"” If so, your title is accurate. If not, let’s not try to make this personal. You obviously think I’ve been harboring some grudge against Luis, but that simply isn’t true. I mean, NOW it might be true. But before tonight? No.
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2. I love that you refer to me as "Mr. Ryan" and "the Lion" and "the Prophet". So formal and dramatic. Feel free to call me "Ryan" from here on out, though. Or "Mr. Christoff" if you need to be formal. If you’re really nice, I’ll let you call me "King Ryan, the Lion Prophet". Now, who are YOU again?
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3. MICHAEL: "It was only ‘till this week that my friend was able to go over this story…So, he finally found the way of sending me a message asking me the favor of transmitting it to the forum."

3A. RESPONSE: Yes, poor Luis. Now you see why he is called "El Cero." All alone in a little shack made of yucca leaves, no access to running water or electricity, let alone the internet. What way did he "finally find" to send you a message? A curled note in an empty Hatuey bottle? No wait, that's right, Luis is one of the wealthiest people in Cuba, with several houses and a computer in his office which he uses to surf the internet and track eBay auctions every day. In fact, I have sat next to him and searched closed ebay auctions for Cuban baseball items in that very office. So I'm guessing e-mail was the way he finally found to contact you. The same way he initially contacted me. Save the sob story of the poor Cuban peasant who spent his life savings on these Polar cards because that's how much faith he had in their legitimacy. If you know Luis, you know he is a shrewd businessman.
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4. MICHAEL: "As you will notice, most of the details Mr. O. is going to give today will not help him in the future commercialization of the cards but are necessary due to the course this matter has taken.
There are two main facts that Mr. O. wants to make clear:
1- He is absolutely sure about the authenticity of the cards.
2- He is not in a hurry for selling the cards."

4A. RESPONSE: Yes, I'm sure money is not even a consideration and you are only posting here for the good of the hobby, in order to set us straight on this great undiscovered issue. I'm sure that's true, in spite of the following quote near the end of your post:

4B. MICHAEL: "...if in the future he decides to auction the important ones - like Dihigo, Page or Charleston - please have the certainty that there will only be one maybe two opportunities to obtain them. The decision will fall on your hands."
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5. Regarding your statements on authenticity, the story about them being proofs bought from a poor relative of a Polar employee in the 50's was told to me by Marcos when I first e-mailed him about the cards asking for more information. This was when they were first listed and well before any post on this forum had been made about them. I e-mailed him back that after seeing the scans on ebay and reading the story, I believed they were most likely fakes produced recently. None of this had anything do with "El Cero".
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6. I'd love to know what "the poor functional usage of the proposed cards as such" means if you have some time. Does it have anything to do with the fact that 230% of the cards are Cubans? I can see how that would make for poor functional usage. The 1926-27 Aguilitas set is 100% Cuban players, and I thought THAT was a lot. Or was it poor functional usage to make more than 100 different cards plus some duplicates (but no more than two of the same player) as proofs? That sounds like poor functional usage of a proofing system. Luckily for El Cero, and any wealthy collector of Cuban cards (or perhaps those who want a card of every HOFer), I'm sure there were duplicates of, oh, I don't know, maybe Dihigo, Bell, Charleston, Paige, Leonard, etc.
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7. MICHAEL: "As everyone can understand each one of us is free to use whatever strategy we decide in order to sell our articles and he just decided to use that, starting with the less important cards and leaving the most valuables ready for a future deal as a unique lot. But he was making a huge mistake…..he never foresaw what a rage would be unleashed and what would happen: the furious reaction and accusatory response of Mr. Ryan"

7A. RESPONSE: Where in the world is this coming from? A furious reaction? An accusatory response? A rage unleashed? I know your English isn't great, so here's a word to familiarize yourself with: hyperbole. I am capable of unleashing rage and reacting furiously, but I can tell you it looks quite different than what you're referring to. Whatever the case, if I sounded angry in any post about these "cards", it wasn't at any individual other than the unknown(?) creator of them. Why so defensive? Interesting.
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8. I love how you call this next section "historical facts":
MICHAEL: "When the cards first appeared on EBay, Mr. Ryan, almost immediately without having the time to study them deeply, on July 8, prepared a long essay by means of which he showed off his knowledge on Cuban cards (it is obvious, he lives on that) and provided infinite logical and illogical reasons to demonstrate this "fake".


8A. RESPONSE: First, your historical fact about July 8 was actually September 8. You don't have to be an archaelogist to scroll up this very page and read the date of the post. Next, I would love for you to point out the "illogical reasons" I gave as to why this issue is fake. Seriously. Please point them out to me. Do you think I like to write long-winded essays like this one and my earlier post of September 8th? Could you possibly understand how annoyed I am that I have to waste my time right now responding to you? Maybe you have enough time on your hands to post on chat boards in order to somehow "show off" your knowledge, but I can assure I have much better things to do with my life. Also, if you read the posts prior to mine on September 8th, I was ASKED to respond.
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9. MICHAEL: "Not satisfied with this he went into the trouble of writing to each of those who had obtained some of the cards to prevent them from this so called "swindle"

9A. RESPONSE: Wow, is this what you mean by "the facts and nothing but the facts"? Here's an ACTUAL fact: Your above statement is a flat out lie as I wrote exactly NONE of those who had obtained the cards. Not one. A friend of mine bought one and e-mailed me about it. He later showed it to me in person. Another collector e-mailed me before the auctions ended to ask my opinion. That's it. I'm sure some of those who bought the cards on ebay are lurkers here and are probably reading this thread. If so, let's ask them if I ever wrote them. I should also add that I would not feel guilty about contacting someone to help them avoid being swindled by scams like this one and it absolutely wouldn't be something I would hide. In this case it is simply not true. So much for your "historical facts".
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10. I'm never sure what you mean when you use the term "ridiculous prices" in your post. You claim that Luis paid "ridiculous prices" for the Polar crap, but does that mean a lot of money, or a little? You also say that I paid "ridiculous prices" for the cards I bought from Luis and at first I assumed you meant I paid a lot, which is true considering probably spent over 6 figures on Cuban baseball cards from him over a few years. Looking back, many do seem like bargains. At the time, I paid above what the current market value was for most of the items I bought. The reason is that I am a collector first, dealer second. Most of what I bought from Luis is still in my personal collection. Some things I've sold and will continue to sell since I am not independently wealthy, but my purchases in Cuba have been primarily as a collector, unlike El Cero who does not care at all about Cuban baseball cards, only in how much money he can turn them into. Fact.

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11. I don't know what your point was in posting all those pictures but damn, those are some sweet cards! Did you really have to post that Billiken card of Bill Holland? I just traded it on Friday and I think I felt a tear trickle down my cheek when I saw it again for the first time since our final goodbye. I'll miss you, Billiken Holland. Enjoy your new home. Also, I didn't buy that Tomas Gutierrez album of Major Leaguers or the individual Diaz card. Luis did offer me both of them, though, and maybe he thought I bought them. Nope. Thanks for the scans, though.
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12. MICHAEL: "When Mr. Ryan saw the Polar cards in EBay, which indicated that in this occasion the chance was flying away (this time he couldn't buy that lot directly) he angered..and the continuous attack started."

12A. RESPONSE: Hilarious! Why would my chance be flying away when they were right there on ebay where I could bid on them? When there are cards I want that turn up on ebay I am more than willing to do what it takes to win them. And all it takes is bidding more money than anyone else. I did not bid on the Polar forgeries because I do not collect forgeries. If they had been legit cards, why would it anger me for them to be sold on ebay? I'd be grateful to have a chance to buy them. In fact, Cuban stuff goes for less on ebay than in private sales or larger auctions, so I'd have been thrilled. Luis hasn't offered me any cards in quite a while and the last ones he offered, I didn't buy. I love the drama, though: "and the continuous attack started..."
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13. MICHAEL: "At the time the Prophet Ryan wrote it, he had been previously in contact with a lot of Cuban people( he knows a lot of people in Cuba, collectors and dealers) people which had already seen the whole Polar lot and passed on to him all the names and info he was prophesying. In Cuba this lot was not kept as a mystery, many people had seen it and given their opinions."

13A. RESPONSE: This is classic. Sorry, but I talked to NO ONE who had seen the lot. Not a single person. No one gave me any names, no one was feeding me any secret information. Go ask whoever these people are that you're talking about. There were countries other than Cuba that produced vintage cards and I've been more focused on those. But what you are saying is that I WAS EXACTLY RIGHT IN MY THEORY. You are saying that the plan was exactly as I had stated in my previous post. In fact, you are still here trying to hype the cards up so you can sell the big ones a few months from now, or even a few years from now. I know how patient Luis is. I've had to wait over a year to buy certain cards. It is great marketing and creates plenty of excitement and anticipation when the big cards finally do make it to the marketplace. Thanks for confirming what I had thought from the beginning. Don't worry, you will still be able to sell these fakes for plenty of money. I'm sure there are several board members who could afford it that would buy the whole lot right now. Why wait? These aren't going to get any more real or fake. It seems that everyone has already made up their mind, one way or the other. Facts are pointless. Oh, and just because you say "A guy told me that this other guy told him..." about something, that doesn't make it a fact.
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14. You mentioned that I was not so cautious when buying valuable cards from previously unknown sets in the past from Luis. I am always cautious when buying valuable cards. I bought the ones you mentioned because they are all real.
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15. I am still unsure whether or not Mike Campbell has a connection here or not, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and view his research as being what he has said it was, innocent research by a curious collector. I would like to be very clear here, though: I believe there is a strong chance that "Michael" is really El Cero himself, Luis. Whoever you are, thanks for letting me waste my evening writing this dissertation. Please don't be offended if I call any of your future forgeries "fakes" and don't take it personally when I label those who make fake cards as "scumbags." It's nothing personal, Luis. Really.

-Ryan