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Jim/jverri01I am the seller of the Joss BL 460. I also sold the other 460's that were on Ebay a couple of months back. The first group that was listed were listed erroneously. The BIN was supposed to have been $2500., but they posted as $250 BIN. The second group was listed at the intended pricing level. I called these VG+/EX-. As I feel they were. Essentially, these commons went for $1600. - $3200. each. I had 7 in all. Believe it or not, the Joss came from a different source than the others. It is in lesser condition, probably something like G++/VG-/VG, depending on how old school you are about grading (I try to be conservative). Before I even listed the Joss, I spoke with several people, all of whom are "pioneers" in the market, all of whom I admire and respect. The general consensus seems to be that a common that is VG is worth about $1500. - $2000. and a HOFer is worth as much as 3x that. The $8500. list price was unrealistic - intentionally. I wanted to see if posting it would elicit any offers. It did. I then relisted it (it is on Ebay now) at a realistic price ($3500.). These backs are amazingly tough, and a year from now I am sure we will have seen none of these since those I am finishing posting now. The other Joss 460 is listed by a person who acquired one of my 460's, higher grade, as an upgrade. Great guy. Hope this is helpful.