Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911
Actually, no he's absolutely not. Belle is not in the top half, the no brainers that there is a consensus on among the vast majority. Belle is not in this group.
WAR:
Cobb 151.5
Williams 122
Carlton 90.2
Perry 90
Belle 40.1
He had great rate stats and a very, very short career. Just like Dick Allen, he's right on the edge, and his off the field record is helping keep him on the barely out side instead of the barely in side. He played only 10 real seasons, he has none of the milestones, 0 of his counting stats are hall of fame worthy when put into the extreme offensive context of his era.
I think he belongs on the strength of his rate stats, I'd probably vote for him. But let's not allow our narratives to get completely divorced from reality and argue Belle is a top tier HOFer and belongs in the group with Cobb, Williams, Carlton and Perry. He's on the border, the Hall is a total-career based honor and always has been.
|
I said, he's like Koufax, who also doesn't have a typical HOF length career. WAR has a lot to do with the length of one's career. Belle also was up against the height of the PED era sluggers. I wonder how he would look if the PED users were removed from the equation, or did you forget to take that into consideration? This is why stats like WAR are sometimes ridiculous and not all that accurate. (Same goes with WAR calculated for hitters during years the cheating Astros were getting away with their crap.) So, using WAR to try and prove a point he did not have HOF stats from where I'm sitting is sort of a worthless and useless argument.
For hitters with at least 5,000 plate appearances, his .564 slugging percentage puts him at the 12th highest all-time. And regardless of the number of plate appearances, he's still at 16th all-time.
During Belle's 7 peak years from 1993-99 his average annual stat line was - .308/.391/.602 with 41 HRs and 127 RBIs. And those numbers were with the shortened 1994 and 1995 seasons.
He had over 100 RBIs in 9 straight seasons, led the league/majors multiple times in various different offensive categories, and is 27th all-time on the career OPS list at .933.
He is also the only player in MLB history to hit 50 homers and 50 doubles in the same season. And he also is the first player in MLB history to get paid $10M for a season.
If he wasn't known as such a total jerk, he'd be in the HOF already. I believe it was Buster Olney who once wrote/said, "It was taken as fact in baseball circles that Albert Belle was nuts".