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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>ok guys and girls...we have all heard from almost everyone that wanted to be a part of the "authentication" grading subject. I have yet to hear a compelling reason not to have an "original" grade though.....the word "authentic" seems to be too ambiguous. Grading altered cards is not a good idea. There are some reasons to WANT to do it but there are more compelling reasons NOT to do it. Here is the deal. (BTW, Tom cards are in holders whether we like it or not, if you own them you can crack them...your choice) I am very open to other suggestions on how to fix my/the/our problem. It is very easy to sit back and tell someone how/why their idea won't work. Please tell me how to fix this card's grade though and fyi the back is almost perfect...the back would be a strong 8..the wrinkle next to his head is the ONLY flaw and does NOT go through to the back... (yes, I could crack it but don't want to have to)..again, quoting Ross Perot (a hometown boy) "I am all ears"......bestest regards....<BR><BR><BR><BR><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1012718285.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>MW</b><p>Leon --<BR><BR>I don't believe the defect (small crease) on the Mathewson is that severe. I can't tell you how many times I've gone through a collection or a group of cards and picked up one that appeared to be perfect or exceptional, only to find a small crease or other notable defect -- that's just part of collecting. It's also one reason why cards that receive extremely high grades within a low population sell for such high prices.<BR><BR>Also consider that if you were selling the Mathewson online or in an auction, it would probably fetch much more than a "run of the mill" VG card due to its other outstanding qualities. My guess is that it would probably command a strong Vg-Ex price. Your other option is to free the card and sell it as is with a full description. Either way, I think you'll be OK.

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Posted By: <b>David</b><p>Also quoting Ross Perot, "That dog won't hunt." The quote doesn't relate to the proceedings, but I like saying it.<BR><BR>Leon, because of the kind of cards you own, I understand and respect your decision to get them graded-- but I sometimes think the main reason people get cards graded is so they can complain about the grades they get. (Why did the man keep hitting himself on a hammer? Because it felt so good when he quit.)<BR><BR>I am assuming that you are saying the grade given was too low (Perhaps I'm missing your whole point). If so, it would seem the options are 1) Get it regraded, 2) Remove it from holder, 3) Sell as is and explain the card's condition in detail. I won't suggest which one you should follow, as you Texans are a pround bunch who don't like to be bossed around by us Nirvana-listening Microsoft-huggers. In other words, I'm sure your decision will be a good one.<BR><BR>Sell hello to Ross next time you bump into him, and tell him I'm sorry I threatened to crash his daughter's wedding.<BR>

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Hey David,<BR>By the way you speak of Texans I can denote a little jealousy <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> You give the 3 obvious choices I have with this card. When I bought it from Scott B. yesterday he too said it should be "freed"....but he had not done it. Why? Like it or not graded cards bring more money. You did leave out the other "potential" option. "original" ...with no number assigned. Although it would potentially mess up the pop. report (of course these could be reported too however we would not know where ours stood in condition relativity) I would prefer this holder not to have a number. Can you, or anyone else, envision it with just "original" as the grade? best...

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Posted By: <b>TBob</b><p>Leon- I don't go along with the slabbist position that a card will bring more simply because it is slabbed. A good example would be the E97s which Bob M. had on ebay about 4 months ago and which appeared to be EXMT. They went for EXMT prices. When several were submitted to SGC they all came back VGEX SGC 50. I personally think they were woefully undergraded (SGC is murder on caramel cards and I have seen SGC 70 tobacco cards which look worse than SGC 50 caramel cards but that's another story for another day) and would NOT bring as much on ebay in the slabbed state.<BR>Mattys are, and always will be, hot. Free him and he'll bring more.<BR>Just my 2 cents.

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Posted By: <b>Plastic Dog</b><p>Leon, you're a good guy so I think that the obvious problem with your whole position just didn't creep into your brain. Because you clearly aren't as jaded as some of us other collectors. For if you were, you would realize the obvious:<BR><BR>YOUR "AUTHENTIC" MATTY WOULD BE ADVERTISED AS NM/MT ON EBAY, AND A COLLECTOR WOULD HAVE A HARD TIME PICKING UP THE FLAW IF IT'S ENTOMBED IN BULLET-PROOF PLASTIC!!!

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Posted By: <b>David</b><p>Leon, There's more to life than money. There's fast cars and diamonds too. And don't say my choices were obvious-- they were, like fine wine or music, subtle and intriguing, sublime and haunting. Reading those carefeull culled three choices should bring tears to one's eyes, renew one's fait in God and country.<BR><BR>In the case of your Matty, I agree totally with Plasticdog-- though it's probably a moot point, as I doubt your card will ever be slabbed wihtout grade anyway.<BR><BR>I think we all agree that Leon's a smart and thoughtful collector (despite his self proclaimed 'ameteur' status) and will make a good decision in the end, without or without our wonderful input.

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Posted By: <b>Plastic Dog</b><p>Kind of like Army Intelligence, Woody Allen commedy, and Legal compassion (no offense intended, TBOB).

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Posted By: <b>David</b><p>In the statement, I was seperating the collector from the state.<BR><BR>On the topic of state stereotypes-- I'm a native of Wisconsin. The stereotype is that Wisconsinites each cheese, eat brats and stand in deep snow acting like Packer fans and drinking beer (redundant phrase). And it's pretty much true. At least that's the way I remember college.

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Posted By: <b>Plastic Dog</b><p>Ever notice that when the President gets lost, he just asks the cab driver to take him back to his ranch in Texico? You can no easier separate the state from the man than you could his cavernous skull from his neck.

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Posted By: <b>the devil</b><p>then send him to a card doctor to remove the wrinkle, have PSA grade it an 8, and send your kid to college with the proceeds.

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Posted By: <b>Plastic Dog</b><p>Except sometimes there wasn't even a game. Just standing in the snow drinking beer, waiting for someone to get arrested. Ah, the good old days.

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Posted By: <b>benge610</b><p>I agree w/devil as to one of my options, if Matty was in my stable. My other option (which I think I would end up choosing)is: Crack it open, place it in a quality auction with honest complete description. It is beautiful card and will sell accordingly.<BR><BR>Honestly, since I can't afford an example like your Matty right now anyway, Leon, I'd keep it. It's a dilemma I wish I had.<BR><BR>Just my opinion.<BR><BR>Ben.<BR><BR>

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>That cock won't fight.

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Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>Leon--We missed one more option. Load up your Black and Decker with 1/4" drill bit, place over the grade number, and drill a small hole through the holder. It will obliterate the grade and you will have an authentic, ungraded card in a holder. NEXT!

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>the hole could then be thread with a nice gold chain and I could have the very first, authentic only-vintage card necklace....ya'll heard it here first.....ps folks...I never said I wanted to sell him...I just got him yesterday and did so to further my collection not my wallet <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>David</b><p>Or a windchime. 4 Base Hits + Peck & Snyder Reds + M116 might play a pretty tune in that sweet Texas evening breeze.