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Greatest pitching duo
Who do you think was the best? Koufax / Drysdale? Seaver / Kooseman? McLain / Lolich? Spahn / Burdette? Or someone else?
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For consistency, I think Maddux and Glavine were difficult to top. One thing about having multiple aces on the same staff is that there aren't nearly as many multiple game loosing streaks. From the time Maddux signed 'til the time Glavine did not, there were very few loosing streaks.
but others to consider are: Spahn & Sain Marichal & Perry RJ & Schilling Pedro & Schilling Plank & Bender Feller & Lemon Hunter & Blue Halladay & Cliff Lee (I remember when THIS staff got together...talk was of dynasty and Halladay was considered the best pitcher in baseball) by the way, isn't it curious how fickle the opinion of who is the greatest active pitcher can be....while right now, there's a little stability with Kershaw....Halladay and Verlander ranked at the top prior to that. speaking of prior... Mark Prior & Kerry Wood (if only they had stayed heathy) |
I'll go with Gibson/Carlton late 60's.
Going back to the early days, Waddell/Plank/Bender - 1905 A's. |
Choose one to go with Bob Feller from the late 40's - early 50's Cleveland Teams...Early Wynn or Bob Lemon.
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Parnell/Kinder had a good run in the late 1940's-early 50's, around the same time as Spahn and Sain, but I think Ruth/Shore should at least get a mention here.
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How about the 1970 Orioles? Palmer, Cuellar, and McNally combined to go 68 - 27 with a 3.13 ERA and 574 strike outs.
Then they went 3 - 0 in the World Series. |
Also Nolan Ryan/Frank Tanana for the 1976 Angels were pretty impressive!
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Not much factual basis, but my own favorite was the Ryan/Hough combo. Must have been rough on batters seeing Ryans speed then adjusting later to Houghs Knuckleball. Pedro/Wakefield would be similar, but with less of a difference.
Steve B |
2001-2002 Randy Johnson/Curt Schilling
They were the top two vote getters for Cy Young awards both years. Their combined WAR for both years was 15.7. 2001 combined for 43-12 with 2.74era 2002 combined for 47-12 with 2.77era 2001 World Series they combined for a 4-0 W-L with 1.37era |
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I tend to agree with Schilling and Johnson. That said, what about:
McGinnity & Mathewson - 68 wins in one season! Old Hoss Radbourn & Charlie Sweeney - 76 wins w/ ERAs of 1.38 & 1.55 |
1936 Pittsburgh Crawfords Satchel Paige & Bill Foster. Battery included Josh Gibson.
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Over a three year stretch, Matty/Marquard was pretty darn tough.
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The validity of some comparisons are more accurate (IMHO) if we set aside the actual stats. In the following case, I'm using the Cy Young award as the symbol of dominance for which it was intended to signify. However, other good arguments comparing statistical RANKING for each season involved rather than just the stated stats.
From 1991 though 1996 Maddux*, Glavine, & Smoltz won every NL Cy Young. ...extending it out two more seasons (through 1998) and they won 7 of 8. * - Maddux was still with the Cubs for 1993 award |
For a duo, I might go with Warren Spahn and Lew Burdette between 1956 to 1960, and that's my bias kicking in. They were outstanding, no doubt, but there were other duos that have been named that were at least as good, if not a little better.
But for a trio? Between 1956 and 1960, a five year period, it didn't get any better than Spahn, Burdette, and Bob Buhl. In five years, that trio went 273-150 with a 3.14 ERA (1,292 earned runs allowed in 3,698 innings pitched). Spahn threw 17 shutouts, Burdette 18 and Buhl 10. Lew Burdette led the NL with 6 shutouts in 1956. Spahn led the NL with 4 shutouts in 1959. Actually, he finished in a three way tie for the league lead...with teammates Lew Burdette and Bob Buhl. They combined for 12 shutouts in 1959. Spahn 1956 20-11 2.78 ERA 1957 21-11 2.69 ERA 1958 22-11 3.07 ERA 1959 21-15 2.96 ERA 1960 21-10 3.50 ERA (at age 39!) 105-58 3.00 ERA Burdette 1956 19-10 2.70 ERA 1957 17-9 3.72 ERA 1958 20-10 2.91 ERA 1959 21-15 4.07 ERA 1960 19-13 3.36 ERA 96-57 3.36 ERA Buhl 1956 18-8 3.32 ERA 1957 18-7 2.74 ERA 1958 5-2 3.45 ERA 1959 15-9 2.86 ERA 1960 16-9 3.09 ERA 72-35 3.04 ERA That's pretty darned good. But what sucks even more is that the Braves could have been even better. After the 1953 season, the Braves traded Johnny Antonelli to the Giants for Bobby Thomson, who never really did anything in Milwaukee. Well, Antonelli did. He was 21-7 with a league leading 2.30 ERA in 1954. Now, there's no telling if he would have replicated that in Milwaukee, but the Braves could have had this in 1956: Warren Spahn 20-11, 2.78 ERA Johnny Antonelli 20-13, 2.86 ERA Lew Burdette 19-10, 2.70 ERA Bob Buhl 18-8, 3.32 ERA Not quite having four 20 game winners like the Orioles did a little over a decade later, but pretty darned close. They'd have won 77 games. And they had offensive firepower to boot. Joe Adcock, Hank Aaron (in his third year), and Eddie Mathews combined for 101 home runs. I don't know, maybe they make it to three straight World Series. Oh well. But back to the trio we did have. Between 1956 and 1960, even with Buhl only starting 11 games, winning 5 in 1958, that trio still averaged 18 wins each for the 5 years. |
Matty and marquard, bender and plank and Waddell
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I'd have to go with Matty and McGinnity. From 03-06 they won 230 games, averaging 57 1/2 wins per season. Matty with three 30+ win seasons, Joe two. McGinnity led NL pitchers in WAR in 03 & 04, Matty in 01, 05, 07-10. In 03 McGinnity and Matty were the top 2 players in WAR at 11.3 and 10.2. Runner up Matty and Marquard. From 11-13 they won 147 games, averaging 49 wins per season.
For modern era, from 62-66 Koufax and Drysdale averaged 42 wins per year. Koufax was the best pitcher in baseball 3 times, Drysdale once. The fifth year, Dean Chance from the AL won the Cy Young and led pitchers in WAR. That season, Drysdale led NL pitchers in WAR, Koufax was second (2nd & 3rd in MLB). |
You can argue the best twosome for hours.
Some of the best threesomes would be with minimum of 4 years as teammates Glavine/Maddux/Smoltz Feller/Lemon/Wynn Hunter/Holtzman/Blue McNally/Palmer/Cuellar Pennock/Hoyt/Pipgras Pretty tough to have 3 ace quality pitchers on the same staff 4 straight years |
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Plank, Waddell and Bender. |
Maddux / glavin
Should be interesting to see sherzer / sberg in wash and kershaw / grinkie in la this season, hope harvey / degroom can be a great 1-2 combo |
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There's some respect. :rolleyes: |
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