Trust PSA?
 

Been working on a Diamond Stars set for about a year now. There's lots about graded cards I don't understand - and I mean lots.

I understand that there were variances in card sizes back in the day and that if you stack 50 cards on top of each other they may not line up exactly. But using Lefty Grove as an example, can someone explain these discrepancies?

Without being able to physically examine the edges because the card is encased, how do you approach buying cards with such potential inconsistencies in their sizes? I'm at a loss whether to trust PSA or not. Would you pay top dollar for a card that seems way too small for the holder?

See how thin the black border is on all 4 sides of these three cards, Of course I've read that cards can be soaked, stretched, and then trimmed to appear "normal" size, but I'd assume that would be caught by PSA.

http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps64c7e6ed.jpg
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps07a74016.jpg
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/z...sd562ed4d.jpeg

But on these four, the black border is definitely larger on at least one edge - with very nice, expensive grades I might add.

http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/z...s85c097b4.jpeg
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/z...sdc89d0cb.jpeg
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/z...s1bee6397.jpeg
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps73d0e391.jpg

The grading companies have been talked about at great lengths on this board. It is safe to say that all grading companies will miss a grade from time to time. If you are hesitant to use PSA, consider using SGC instead.

Agree.

another possibility is that the cards are the same size and over the years of grading the size of the opening in PSA holders have changed slighty. This would make a card appear larger or smaller than another when they are the same size. I would think all the grading companies holders would vary slighty over the years.

you are correct, without seeing both cards in hand side by side it is difficult to tell if it is the cards or the holders

The answer is pretty easy for me. If I have doubts about the way it looks, I don't buy it, and wait for one that looks right.

I Must admit that I have handled far more Raw Diamond Stars and Goudey's than graded examples. Second I have just a rudimentary knowledge of detecting trimming on baseball cards. That said cards from these sets with their thick cardboard can and do shrink as the edges are handled over time. My Father had a Sport King Cobb and a couple Goudey's stashed away with his boyhood hoard of mostly Playball's and some early Bowman's, Those cards were well handled and over time had lost almost all of the white borders around the card. The low grade Grove's have clearly been handled and the High grade examples have led a good life. The Gum cards from the 30's were meant to be handled to survive in a kids pocket, Pitched against walls flipped. They were playthings and built as such. As to your question do you trust a TPG to differentiate between a well handled example and a trimmed card? I can say from experience that I do in fact trust them BUT as was suggested I trust my own eye as well and If I am not comfortable I do not buy the card.

Hope this helps
Jonathan

I can tell you that the grading companies look at the edges of the cards to determine trimming, at least with Topps and other cards from the same era. The sheets of cards were originally cut using a "guillotine" shear method, leaving relatively rough edges on original, non-tampered with cards. Back in the early '90's, before and just as the grading cards were coming into being, they were certain unethical dealers who specialized in running off-grade cards through a paper press, making them slightly larger, and then trimming them back down to size, losing their worn corners in the process. These shannigans would leave the cards with corners appearing sharp and unworn, in apparent NMt-Mt or better condition to the naked eye, and greatly increase their apparent value. Viewing them under a loop, however, revealed very sharp, clean edges quite different from those an original, untampered with card would possess. Sometimes the scammers would only run the upper and lower portions of the cards through the press, thus enlarging only the borders, but leaving a distinct "pinched" appearance at the corners as a tell-tale sign that the card had been trimmed. During that time period, many dealers, as well as myself, aware that this unsavory process was not an infrequent occurrance, would only purchase raw cards in apparent high-grade after viewing their edges with a loop. The grading companies do the same. Card sizes were not absolutely uniform, but had slight variances. You cannot determine if a card has been trimmed by measuring it; only by looking at the edges under magnification. Thus, if a card has been graded, it most likely has not been trimmed.

Hope this helps,

Larry

Laughing out loud.