Best Team Without HoF Players
 

Here are the rules: No Hall of Famers on the team and player must be retired. This includes players retired who will be inducted, though not yet in the Hall. We are going to exclude Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, Palmero, Rose, and anyone else who for whatever reason, would be in the Hall but are not due to violations or ped use.

There are no right or wrong player selections, just some fun away from the obvious greats of the game that always find themselves on the greatest team ever assembled.

This might require a bit more thought, so have some fun! Cover the positions, and use 3 outfielders with a 4 pitcher rotation and a dh.

My team would be:

c Ted Simmons
1B Fred McGriff
2B Bobby Grich
SS Dave Concepcion
3B Al Rosen
OF Jackie Jensen
OF Tony Oliva
OF Vada Pinson
DH Edgar Martinez

P Ron Guidry, Sam McDowell, Allie Reynolds, Jack Morris

C Ted Simmons
1b Keith Hernandez
2b Lou Whitaker
3b Dick Allen
SS Alan Trammell
LF Tim Raines
CF Kenny Lofton
RF Larry Walker

DH Edgar Martinez

SP Jim McCormick | Kevin Brown | Babe Adams | Luis Tiant

Blyleven is a HOFer.

C Bob Boone
1B Gil Hodges
2B Dave Cash
SS Larry Bowa
3B Ken Boyer
Lf Tim Raines
Rf Carl Furillo
Cf Garry Maddox
DH Harold Baines
P. Tommy John,Milt Pappas,Don Newcombe,Ron Guidry

I would pick a lot of the same names you did ,but just to zag

C: Thurman Munson
1b: Boog Powell
2b: Larry Doyle
SS: Larry Bowa
3b: Ron Cey
OF: Roger Maris
OF: Dave Parker
OF: Fred Lynn
DH: Frank Howard

P: You got most of mine, but I would add Lee Smith.

He shouldn't be!

c Elston Howard(if it weren't for Yogi blocking him all those years, he'd be the easiest choice, Simmons is so damn close though)
1b McGriff
2b jeff kent(if he gets in, then whitaker)
3b Rosen
ss Omar(if he eventually gets in, then Trammell or Conception)
of Dale Murphy
of Albert Belle
of Maris
dh Edgar

sp Mussina, Schilling, Tiant, Hershiser, Billy Pierce

Great selections from everyone thus far! Any of the teams that have been assembled could win a World Series. The variety of players chosen have been excellent, and the players all have storied careers. It's safe to say this is a trip down memory lane for us. I love Frank Howard in the DH role.

1B: Don Mattingly
2B: Willie Randolph
3B: Darrell Evans
SS: Maury Wills
C: Javy Lopez
LF: Tim Raines
CF: Dale Murphy
RF: Roger Maris
DH: Juan Gonzalez
SP: Luis Tiant
RP: Dan Quizenberry

You know, I was thinking about this. I think a good case could be made for Bill White when you consider both his career and his time a a league president.

I think the aptly named Dick Allen would statistically measure up.

Steve Garvey or Gil Hodges would make nice representatives at first base.

Tim Raines is much, much better than a number of outfielders already in the hall.

Finally, one who does not get his due is Maury Wills. He was an evolutionary player in the game. His post-career stuff hurt him, but anyone would take Maury in his prime as their shortstop.

C- Ted Simmons. I believe he was on the HOF ballot just one year. That's wrong
1B- Dick Allen
2B- Lou Whitaker
3B- Al Rosen. Would be in if it weren't for back problems.
SS- Vern Stephens.
OF- Tony Oliva. Would be in if it weren't for knee problems.
OF- Tim Raines. Will/should be in someday.
OF- Dwight Evans
SP/L Jim Kaat
SP/R Louie Tiant
RP/L Billy Wagner
RP/R John Wetteland

C - Benito Santiago
1B - Don Mattingly
2B - Luis Castillo
SS - Nomar Garciaparra
3B - Chipper Jones
OF - Andruw Jones
OF - Ken Griffey Jr.
OF - Tim Raines

SP - Andy Pettite
RP - Billy Wagner

I won't argue with that!

C- Ted Simmons
1b- Fred McGriff
2b- Lou Whitaker
3b- Al Rosen
SS- Marty Marion
OF- Tim Raines, Dale Murphy, Jackie Jensen
P- Tommy John, Ron Guidry, Jim Kaat, AlliieReynolds
DH- Edgar Martinez

Man, that's too many Yankee pitchers for a Yankee hater. Sorry dad and grandpa. They would be ashamed if they saw that.:rolleyes:

Drew

C-pudge rodriguez
1B- mattingly
2B- kent
3B- howard johnson
SS-nomar garcipara
Of- albert bell
Of- bo jackson
Of-raines
Dh- edgar martinez

Sp- gooden
Sp- cone
Sp-fernando valenzuela
Sp- mike scott

I agree with all of your points, and yes, Bill White has really flown under the radar.

Some really good choices here. I'm going to try and go in a little different direction, and choose as many players as I can that have not yet been mentioned. I like a challenge!

My lineup:

1. Minnie Minoso, LF
2. Tony Oliva, RF
3. Cecil Cooper, 1B
4. Ted Kluszewski, DH
5. Vern Stephens, SS
6. Ken Boyer, 3B
7. Elston Howard, C
8. Dom DiMaggio, CF
9. Larry Doyle, 2B

P J.R. Richard

Nice choices Bill. All of the players you have selected, and the others as well, were stars back in the day.

Thanks, Lou. Great topic, by the way.

I've found that I've been discovering players I never knew about a lot more often now that I have started subscribing on baseball-reference.com. The $6 a month for the play index is so worth it. I throw the most obscure set of parameters in, and get a huge grin on my face when the results get spit back out. Yes, I am a real live baseball nerd.

One player I've recently discovered is Vern Stephens. He's really the game's first power hitting shortstop.

If you look at his peak between 1942 and 1951, the numbers he put up were phenomenal. In 1949 he hit .290 with 39 home runs and 159 RBI, matching Ted Williams in that last category. The next year he hit .295 with 30 home runs and 144 RBI. Between 1948 and 1950 he drove in 440 runs. I don't care if that was during an offensive era--driving in 440 runs in 3 years is impressive for a shortstop in any era.

For that ten year average, his 162 game averages were mighty impressive: .290 AVG, 103 runs, 26 HR, 121 RBI. .360/.474/.834 is a pretty hot slash line.

http://imageshack.com/a/img809/1970/4nk6.jpg

I'd grown up operating under the assumption that Williams was really the only superstar, or offensive force, while he played in Boston. Over time, I've completely changed that viewpoint. I knew that Dom DiMaggio was a great in his own right, but Johnny Pesky was pretty incredible, too. Obviously Bobby Doerr was a Hall of Famer, and then you have Stephens.

I love Baseball Reference.

I'm a bit partial to the baseballcube

I love the Cube as well.

A fairly modern take...
 

C Ray Fosse prior to meeting Pete Rose
1b Wally Joyner
2b Ryne Sandberg
3b Bill Madlock
SS Davie Concepcion
RF Bobby Bonds
CF Devon White
LF Greg Luzinski
DH King Kong Kingman, Don Baylor
SP Fergie Jenkins
SP Juan Marichal
RP Bruce Sutter, Tug McGraw

Several of those guys are in the HOF: Sandberg, Marichal, Jenkins and Sutter.

I think you have a couple of HOF'ers on your list.


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C - Jorge Posada (I know it's early but I don't think he'll get in for a while)
1B - Don Mattingly
2B - Larry Doyle
SS - Nomar
3B - Edgar Martinez
LF - Pete Rose
CF - Bernie Williams
RF - Larry Walker

P - JR Richard

I like Bill's approach. Here is mine that have not been named yet:

1B Bill Buckner
2B Julio Franco
SS Bill Dahlen
3B Lave Cross
OF Fred Lynn
OF Lefty O'Doul
OF Riggs Stephenson
DH Jay Buhner
C Jason Kendall
P Orel Hershiser /Charlie Root /Tony Mullane / Carl Mays

I'm surprised I haven't seen Piazza named yet.

Or Mariano

C- Edgar Martinez
1-Dick Allen
2-Lou Whitaker
3- Chipper Jones
SS- Trammel
OF- Jim Edmunds
OF - Raines
OF - George Foster

P- Kaat, Tiant T. John

Relief- Lee Smith

I'd like to get Dwight Evans on the team some how too

They are on their way to the Hall and those guys are excluded. Retired, but headed to the Hall nonetheless. I thought it would be fun to put teams together without the usual Hof players. Everyone has put together very diverse teams, and players who were stars ( major stars ) whose careers did not last long for some reason or another. Congrats to all of you for some nice work and " fielding " some very good teams. This has turned out to be a very fun thread for me, and I hope for you as well.

As a cardinal fan I thought about putting my own list with just cardinals

1B- Keith Hernandez
2B- Tom Herr or julian javier
3B- Scott rolen or ken Boyer
SS- Marty Marion or Edgar Renteria
OF- Curt Flood, Willie McGee, Jim Edmonds
C- Ted Simmons

P- Chris Carpenter, Bob Forsch, Joaquin Andujar

Lee Smith




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C: Thurman Munson
1b: Will Clark
2b: Bobby Grich
3b: Robin Ventura
SS: Bill Dahlen
Of: Tim Raines
Of: Dave Parker
Of: Jim Edmonds
Dh: Boog Powell

P: Jim Kaat
P: Carl Mays
P: Dave McNally
P: David Cone

C Simmons
1B Bagwell (if he is excluded Mattingly)
2B Grich
SS Trammell
3B K Boyer
OF Raines, L Walker, Dwight Evans
P Kaat, John, Tiant

Very nice team, Tim. Hershiser was something else, wasn't he?

Just a fyi, Kluszewski was used. If you're looking for a replacement, might I suggest two Tigers as alternatives: Rocky Colavito or Norm Cash. :D

Thanks
 

Hersheiser was pretty darn good, it was between him and Dave Stewart I was debating.

I have gone back and adjusted the DH spot (after several minutes of looking around - saw his teammates but figured he should be here too.)

The only reason I didn't put Piazza was the exclusion of guys not in the HOF due to PED suspicions.

Buhner and the Bulldog. Sounds like a sitcom that will be appearing on NBC this fall. :D