My Wagner for Your Parakeet? - slightly OT
 

Thoughts on the distribution of Tobacco cards, collecting practices and the culture of collecting in the Tobacco Card era

1. Pack wars - Did smokers in 1910 bet on the contents of Piedmont packs? The dealer sells two packs: the person with the pack containing the lesser valued card pays for both and the person with the higher valued card gets all the smokes & both cards.

2. Chase cards - Were cigarette display boxes distributed with one or two stars per box and if so, did dealers shuffle the contents of boxes once the Matty was pulled?

3. Fish & Game - If baseball cards were the big draw, what did the dealers do with all the fish and bird packs? Could they have thrown a few into the baseball card displays simply to move them off the shelves? Imagine the dismay of a baseball card collector and smoker when he opens a pack of Sweet Caporals and finds a sturgeon on the card.

4. Actresses & Birds - Were the non sport subjects a response to pressure from special interest groups such as the Screen Actors Guild or the Audubon Society? That could certainly happen today in our diverse PC world.

5. Unhealthy Collectors - With unnumbered cards and varying sizes of sets, did collectors of say the Tolstoi military uniform cards continue to smoke heavily trying to obtain yet another different card, after they already unknowingly had a complete set, and die of lung cancer trying?

6. Forget Topps & Bowman - Without the legal action that broke up the American Tobacco Company in 1911, would we still be collecting Tobacco cards today?

7. Gum on the Floor - Were there ardent collectors of baseball subjects who purchased unopened display boxes of cigarettes and then ripped opened all the packs, kept the cards and threw the cigarettes away?

8. Origin of Bullies - Were the fish and bird collectors the subject of ridicule by bullies in school?

9. Just the Smokes, Ma'am - What percentage of smokers in the day could care less about the subject on the card?

10. Worst card Trade Ever - Of the group defined in Question 9, do you think a smoker ever traded a Wagner for a parakeet, aka a Carolina Parrot?

I bet that a lot of the people didn't care about the cards.


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+1 Most probably looked at the card for two seconds before it went in the trash.

I am with the guys above, I think that they just got tossed. Don't get me wrong maybe some of them gave them to there kids. But i think a majority of them were tossed

California air getting to u, frank? Great topic! I bet the younger folk cared a lot more than others...and i love that kids bought the cigs just for the cards...then sold the cigs for a profit. The earliest bb card dealers!

No, but maybe for a Baltimore Oriole!:D

The air is fine, Pete. The prevalence of Tobacco cards of all subjects in both this country and in England raises at least some curiosity about what the culture of collecting was from 1888 to 1911 and beyond. I would not expect the cigarette manufacturers to continue putting cards in packs for 20+ years unless there was a boost in sales due to the cards themselves. I would therefore disagree with those who feel that 99% of them were simply discarded. What percentage survived for 100+ years is a different question, as the realized value of the cards themselves back then was nil.

The modern corollary may be the Happy Meal toys. In the context of vintage collectibles what do you suppose the value of an unopened Happy Meal toy might be in 100 years? Like the '52 Topps baseball packs, most of them them were opened.:eek:

My dad was born in 1918. When I showed him a tobacco card, he claimed to have never seen one as a kid growing up in the twenties. I wonder if the same could be said for a kid in 1910 who liked baseball.

I really like the stories were kids hounded people after they bought packs for the cards.I picture gangs of 10 year olds all rushing one guy and he just throws the card in the air for the kids to fight over.

It's actually quite an interesting topic...one which I'm surprised there isn't much written about?

Can you just imagine a bunch of kids(both boys and girls) sitting about after school trading tobacco cards with each other? Girls trading their BB cards for actresses and such.

Or were those living in MN/WI more interested in the cards of fish?

Or how about this scenario:

little girl: "I'll trade you this ugly black and white card of this guy named Aanson...he's wearing a uniform.. for your parasol drill cards?"

little boy: "gosh...maybe if you throw in that card of the guy with the dog too?

Lol


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Delorean @ 88MPH, imagine the collection you could put together.

A lot of people obviously loved T206s.....millions have survived.

Sports subjects especially baseball made up only a very small percentage of what was put in packs from the late 19th to early 20th century.

Keep in mind that many people couldn't read or write. Many of those that could didn't have easy access to books, TV or the internet like we do either. So seeing far off worlds, exotic creatures, beautiful women, flags, random facts, jokes etc. was very cool.I suspect that in many ways seeing an exotic creature on a card had more zing than the local ball club and players to many.

All of the inserts were popular to those who cared. Some subjects more than others depends on what tickled your fancy. Those who liked them collected the heck out if them, pasted them in books, pinned them on walls etc. Then there were the folks who didn't care and simply tossed them in the trash. Forget about who might have traded a bird for a Wagner....think of the guy who tossed it in the trash. :)

Cheers,

John

Well said John...I was thinking a similar thought...but only sarcasm came out!?

As a kid I would have been more interested in the birds.

Really makes you think about how many Wagner's or Planks's were actually issued compared to how many survive today. I imagine that if 50 or more Wags still exist than probably multiples of that were tossed in the trash!

Justin

Agree with Wonkaticket, some of the baseball players are those would likely been thrown in the trash.. I know the Wagner is an awesome card, and the holy grail, but it would be boring compared to some of the other tobacco cards. :)

Great Topic Frank!

I totally agree with you about the correlation bet the tobacco packs and happy meals. I think A lot did get tossed in the trash by SINGLE people with no kids, and those with kids gave it to the kid as a "toy"

I also think with the way people smoked back then there must of been a lot of cards floating around, all with no value at all im guessing.

Let's Get This Deal Done
 

Come on, Clarence, lets get this deal done.

You are telling me that my Wagner is just an old ballplayer and that the card is trimmed. Furthermore you state that birds will be around forever but the folks will soon tire of watching grown men playing stickball.

So in your opinion my Wagner for your parakeet, oops Carolina Parrot I mean, is not a fair swap. I tell you what. I am going to up the ante and throw in both my SS Conte Rosso card and the Colosseum along with my Wagner for your damn bird. Take it or leave it and stop acting like that parakeet is going to end up in the Audubon Hall of Fame or some such.