Old judge team variations
 

Over the last few years the number of collectors who collect Old Judges by team seems to have grown considerably. I thought it would be useful to start a general thread where collectors could post what teams they collect and what team variations they are looking for. I know this is something that may belong in the BST thread, but I thought it would be more useful if this information could be aggregated in one conspicuous place (Leon-hope this OK). Even though there is no particular team I collect I am currently looking for a Healy Ringed Cap-Washington, a Sommers-N.Y. and a Cunningham-Philadelphia, the latter two being 1890 cards.

Being a Phillies collector, years and years ago I put together a list of known Phillies variations (including pose, name, and team name). Recently added and fixed some. I have been slowly collecting my list and now have over 100 OJ Phillies with 70 being different. My wantlist is below and as you can see is still rather considerable with some variations extremely expensive (Wright, Delahanty, etc.). BTW, most of my OJ collection would grade at a 1 or 2 but most have nice clear pictures.

1887-90 N-172 Old Judge #'s: 5-2 Allen (hands on thighs), 5-4b Allen (fielding, hands at waist),
9-1a Andrews (bat in hand at side), 9-1b Andrews (bat in hand at side, "Phila's"), 9-2a Andrews
(striking ball, "Phila"), 9-2b Andrews (striking ball, "Philadelphia's"), 9-3 Andrews (Bat at
ready, no ball), 9-4 Andrews (right hand abovehead, left hand behind at side), 9-5a Andrews
(fielding, hands shoulder high, "Phila's"), 9-5b Andrews (fielding, hands shoulder high,
"Philadelphias"), 9-6a Andrews/Hoover (Andrews being tagged by Hoover, "Phila"),
9-6b Andrews/Hoover (Andrews being tagged by Hoover, "Phia's"),
23-1 Bastian (batting, looking at camera), 23-2 Bastian (batting, looking at ball), 23-3a (bat over
shoulder, "Phila"), 23-4 Bastian(fielding, hands chest high), 23-5 Bastian(stooping for low ball),
23-6 Bastian/Schriver (Schriver tagging Bastian),
50-1b Buffington (pitching, "Philadelphia"), 50-1d Buffington ("Buffinton", pitching, "Phialadelphias"),
50-2a Buffington ("Buffinton", batting), 50-3 Buffington (pitching, right hand above head),
72-1a Casey (ball in hand at side, "P. Phila"), 72-1b Casey (ball in hand at side, "Pitcher,
Philadelphia"), 72-1c Casey (ball in hand at side, "Casey" on front, "P., Philadelphias"),
72-1d Casey (ball in hand at side, "D.M. Casey" on front, "P., Philadelphias"), 72-2a Casey
(ready to pitch, "Phila"), 72-2b Casey (ready to pitch, "Philadelphias), 72-3a Casey (start of
pitch, "Phila"), 72-3b Casey (start of pitch, "Philadelphia"), 72-3c Casey (start of pitch,
"Philadelphias"),
74-1 Childs (batting, heels together), 74-2 Childs (batting, heels well apart), 74-3 Childs (fielding), 74-4a Childs (throwing, "Phila"),
79-1a Clements (hands on knees, "Phila"), 79-1d Clements (hands on knees, "Phila(N.L.)"),
79-2a Clements (fielding, "Phila"), 79-2b Clements(fielding, "Philadelphia"),
79-2c Clements (fielding, "Philadelphias"), 79-3a Clements (batting, "Phila"),
79-3b Clements (batting, "Philadelphia"), 79-3d Clements (batting, "Phil"),
110-1a Dailey (pitching, right hand head high, "Phila"), 110-1b Dailey (pitching, right hand head
high, "Philadelphia"), 110-2a Dailey (pitching, hands neck high, "Phila"), 110-2b Dailey (pitching,hands neck high, "Philadelphia"), 110-3b Dailey (bat at ready, "Philadelphia"),
122-1 Decker (bat horizontal), 122-2a Decker (bat over shoulder, "Philadelphias"), 122-2b Decker (bat
over shoulder, "Philadelphia (NL)"), 122-3 Decker (fielding, hands thigh high), 122-4a Decker
(fielding, hands chest high, "Philadelphias"), 122-4b Decker (fielding, hands chest high,
"Philadelphia"),122-5b Decker(throwing,"Philadelphia"),
122-5c Decker(throwing, "Philadelphia (NL)"),
123-1a Delahanty (bat by shoulder, "Phila"), 123-1b Delahanty (bat by shoulder, "Phila's"),
123-2 Delahanty (bat horizontal), 123-3b Delahanty (fielding, hands at waist, "Phila's"),
123-4a Delahanty (throwing, "Phila"), 123-4b Delahanty (throwing, "Phila's"),
123-5 Delahanty (fielding grounder),
153-1b Farrar (fielding, hands head high, "Philadelphia"), 153-1c Farrar (fielding, hands head high,
"Philadelphias"), 153-2c Farrar (fielding grounder, name correct, "Philadelphias"),
153-2e Farraer (fielding grounder, name incorrect, "Philadelphias"), 153-3b Farrar (right arm at belt, w/ cap, "Philadelphia"), 153-3c Farrar (right arm at belt, w/ cap, "Phil"), 153-3d Farrar (right hand at belt, w/ cap, name correct, "Philadelphias"), 153-3e Farrer (right arm at belt, w/ cap, name incorect, "Philadelphias"), 153-4a Farrar (fielding, hands chin high, "Phila"), 153-4b Farrar (fielding, hands chin high, "Philadelphia"), 153-5a Farrar (fielding, hands ankle high,"Phila"), 153-5b Farrar (fielding, hands ankle high, "Philadelphia"), 153-5c Farrar (fielding, hands ankle high, "Philadelphias"), 153-6a Farrar (arms folded, no cap, "Phila"), 153-6b Farrar (arms folded, no cap, "Philadelphia"), 153-6c Farrar (arms folded, no cap, "Philadelphias"), 153-7 Farrar (hands on thighs, looking at ball head high),
157-1a Ferguson (batting, "Phila"), 157-1b Ferguson (batting, "Philadelphia"), 157-2b Ferguson
(pitching,"Philadelphia"), 157-3a Ferguson (throwing, "Phila"), 157-4a Ferguson (tagging player, "Phila"), 157-4b Ferguson (tagging player, "Philadelphia"),
165-1a Fogarty (fielding on run to left, hand head high, "R.F."), 165-1b Fogarty (fielding on run to
left, hand head high, "Right Field"), 165-2b Fogarty (fielding, hands neck high, "Right Field"),
165-3a Fogarty (fielding grounder, "R.F."), 165-3b Fogarty(fielding grounder, "Right Field"), 165-4a Fogarty(batting, name correct, "R.F."), 165-4b Fogarty(batting, name correct, "Right Field"), 165-4c Fogerty(batting, name incorrect, "R.F. Phila"), 165-5b Fogarty(sliding, "Right Field"),
180-1 Gardner (fielding low ball)(?), 180-2 Gardner (batting)(?), 180-3 Gardner (throwing)(?),
192-1a Gleason (fielding grounder, "Phila"), 192-2b Gleason (bat over shoulder, "Philadelphias"),
192-3a Gleason (bat horizontal, "Phila"), 192-3b Gleason (bat horizontal, "Philadelphias"),
192-3c Gleason (bat horizontal, "Phil'a (NL)"), 192-4 Gleason (pitching, hands at neck, "Philadelphias"), 192-5 Gleason (pitching, right hand forward and head high, "Phila"),
204-1b Gunning (fielding low ball on left, Philadelphias), 204-2b Gunning (hands by right knee,
Philadelphias),
209-1 Hallman (bat on shoulder), 209-2a Hallman (throwing, right hand head high, "Philadelphia"),
209-2b Hallman (throwing, right hand head high, "Philadelphias"), 209-3a Hallman (fielding, hands
chest high, "Philadelphia"), 209-3b Hallman (fielding, hands chest high, "Philadelphias"),
209-4 Hallman (leaning to left, about to catch ball chest high),
210-1 Hamilton (batting, looking at camera),210-3 Hamilton (fielding grounder), 210-4b Hamilton
(fielding, hands above waist, "Philadelphia N.L."), 210-5b Hamilton (fielding, hands neck
high, "Philadelphia N.L."),
224-1 Henry (bat over shoulder), 224-2 Henry (batting), 224-3 Henry (fielding), 224-4 Henry
(throwing), 224-5 Henry (pitching),
233-1 Hoover (batting, "Philadelphia"), 233-2 Hoover (fielding, hands head high, "Philadelphia"),
233-3 Hoover (fielding, hands thigh high, "Philadelphia"), 233-4 Hoover (throwing,"Philadelphia"),
244-1 Irwin (portrait, looking left, "Philadelphias"), 244-2 Irwin (portrait, looking right, "Philadelphias"), 244-3a Irwin (fielidng, hands cupped chest high, "Phila"), 244-3b Irwin
(fielding, hands cupped chest high, "Philadelphia"), 244-3c Irwin (fielding, hands cupped chest
high, "Philadelphias"), 244-4a Irwin (batting, "Phila"), 244-4b (batting, "Philadelphia"),
244-4c Irwin (batting, "Philadelphias"), 244-5a Irwin (throwing, "Phila"), 244-5b Irwin (throwing,
"Philadelphia"), 244-6a Irwin (fielding grounder, hands between knees, "Phila"), 244-6b Irwin
(fielding grounder, hands between knees, "Philadelphia"), 244-6c Irwin (fielding grounder, hands
between knees, "Philadelphias"), 244-7 Irwin (stooping right to field ball by left foot)(?),
244-8 Irwin (bat on shoulder, heels together)(?), 244-9 Irwin (bat horizontal, ball not
visible)(?), 244-10a Irwin (fielidng, hands above head, "Philadelphias"), 244-11 Irwin (doffing
cap),
257-1 Kelly (batting, hands close to body), 257-2 Kelly (batting, hands away from body), 257-3 Kelly
(fielding, hands head high), 257-4 Kelly (fielding, hands thigh high), 257-5 Kelly (throwing),
301-1a McCarthy (sliding, indoor background, "Phila"), 301-1b McCarthy (sliding, indoor background,
"Philadelphia"), 301-2a McCarthy (throwing, indoor background, "Phila"), 301-2b McCarthy
(throwing, indoor background, "Philadelphia"), 301-3a McCarthy (tagging player, "Phila"),
301-4a McCarthy (batting, indoor background, "Phila"), 301-4b McCarthy (batting, indoor background, "Philadelphia"), 301-5a McCarthy (fielding, hands chest high, "Phila"),
301-5b McCarthy (fielding, hands chest high, "Philadelphia"),
312-1a McGuire (hands on knees, "Phila"), 312-1b McGuire (hands on knees, "Philadelphia"),
312-2a McGuire (right hand on hip, left arm at side, "Phila"), 312-2b McGuire (right hand on hip,
left arm at side, "Philadelphia"), 312-3a McGuire (fielding, hands shoulder high, "Phila"),
312-3b McGuire (fielding, hands shoulder high, "Philadelphia"), 312-4a McGuire (batting, "Phila"), 312-4b McGuire (batting, "Philadelphia"),
332-1a Mulvey (hands on thighs, ball head high, "3d B."), 332-1b (hands on thighs, ball head high,
"Third Base"), 332-2b Mulvey (batting, "Third Base"), 332-3a Mulvey(fielding, hands above waist,
"3d B. Phila"), 332-3d Mulvey (fielding, hands above waist, "3d B. Philadelphia"),
338-2e Myers (2 B, Philadelphia (NL)),
398-1 Sanders (pitching), 398-2a Sanders (throwing, "Phila"), 398-2b Sanders(throwing, "Philadelphias"),
398-3b Sanders (fielding, "Philadelphia"), 398-4 Sanders (batting),
405-1a Schriver (bat over right shoulder, "Phila"), 405-1b Schriver (bat over right shoulder,
"Philadelphias"), 405-2 Schriver (bat horizontal), 405-3 Schriver (fielding, hands ankle high),
405-4a Schriver (fielding, hands chest high, "Phila"), 405-5a Schriver (throwing, "Phila"),
405-5b Schriver (throwing, "Philadelphias"), 405-5c Schriver (throwing, "Phila (N.L.)"),
456-3b Thompson (arms folded, Philas (NL)), 456-4b Thompson (bat in hand at side, Phila's),
456-4c Thompson (bat in hand at side, Philadelphia),
469-1 Tyng (batting, looking at camera), 469-2 Tyng (bat in hand at side), 469-3 Tyng (pitching),
508-1b Wood (batting, "Left Field Philadelphia"), 508-1c Wood (batting, "L.F. Philadelphias"),
508-2a Wood (fielding, hands neck high, "L.F. Phila"), 508-2b Wood (fielding, hands neck high,
"Left Field Philadelphia"), 508-2c Wood (fielding, hands neck high, "L.F. Philadelphias"),
508-3a Wood (fielidng grounder, "L.F. Phila"), 508-3b Wood (fielding grounder, "Left Field
Philadelphia"), 508-3c Wood (fielding grounder, "L.F. Philadelphias"), 508-4a Wood (throwing,
"L.F. Phila"), 508-4b Wood (throwing, "Left Field Philadelphia"), 508-4c Wood (throwing, "L.F.
Philadelphias"),
509-1 Wood (bat on shoulder, "P. Philadelphias"), 509-2 Wood (bat nearly horizontal,
"P. Philadelphias"), 509-3 Wood (pitching, hands at neck, "P. Philadelphia"), 509-5 Wood
(pitching, right hand extended at side head high, "P. Philadelphias"),
510-1a Wright (portrait looking right, "Phila"), 510-1b Wright (portrait looking right, "Phila's"),
510-1d Wright (portrait looking right, "Phila (NL)"), 510-2 Wright (portrait looking left, beard
clear of right side of collar), 510-3 Wright (portrait looking left, beard just over right side
of collar).

Wow-Quite a Philadelphia list. I'll go through my dups tonight and see if I have any you need. BTW, I didn't see Cunningham-Philadelphia. Do you have that one?

no worries
 

No worries Jay. There are so many OJ collectors and variations it makes sense......good luck

Joshua-Got an early look-I have six cards from your want list. Drop me an email and I'll send scans (oldjudge@gmail.com)

Best---Jay

My Modest OJ Team Collection :
 

Jay - Good Thread to start... Thank you -

I collect Southern Association/League and more specifically anything Nashville (Where I reside), so when it came to putting an OJ type in my collection, I decided to see if any of the OJ players might have played in Nashville before going to their respective teams in 1887-1890. After consulting some different sources, including SABR, I found out that there was 13 players who played in Nashville from 1885-1886, who left to go onto a team that resides in the OJ set. The timing worked out perfect as Nashville baseball started in 1885 on the banks of the Cumberland River (Sulphur Dell Bottoms), disbanded from 1887-1892, and started again in 1893 to present day. Here are the 13 Old Judge Players I have collected over the last 5 years : I need a Werrick and Earle & a nice scan of Kremmeyer ! ;)

1885-86 Nashville Americans Player (13)

Charlie Tod Brynan - P, CF - 1888
Billy Crowell - P - 1887,1888,1889
Billy Earle - C -1889
Tony Hellman - C - 1889
Charlie Krehmeyer (Kremmeyer) - 1B, C, OF (2 Examples known)
Lefty Marr - RF - 1890,1889
Ed McKean - S.S. - 1888
George McVey - C, 3B - 1888,1889
Billy O'Brien - 1B - 1888
Ben Sanders - P ( VU ) - 1888
Al Schellhase - (Shellhasse) C -1889
Elmer Mike Smith - P, OF - 1888
Joe Werrick - 3B - 1887,1888,1889

Hi Jeremy! I don't have any of those but hopefully other collectors will chirp in. This thread will be best served if we have new contacts being formed so collectors with similar interests can start working together.

Old Judge Team Collectors - Cleveland
 

Joining in the discussion here, I have been collecting the Cleveland team for a number of years and still need about 46 of the known poses. Anyone with any to trade (I have a number of duplicates) or sell, please contact me at eangyal@roadrunner.com

Thanks,

Eric

I collect Detroit players, need the following:

Twitchell OJ BOOK 468-2
Ganzel 179-3
Rowe 394-1
Hanlon 212-1
Brouthers 43-1
Watkins 480-1
Baldwin
Conway
Gilligan
McGlone
Rooks
Scheibeck
Wheelock
Deacon White.

Thanks Joe

I have the OJ book but is there anywhere to find players broken out by team? I'd love to do a Washington set.

Bert Cunningham was never a Phillie. In the Old Judge set he was a Player's League Philadelphia player...exceedingly rare and expensive.

Danny-We never did a breakout by team. You'll have to go player by player and put it together yourself. Good luck!

Jay

Good thread Jay.

I'm a Detroit collector with the following two team change cards of most interest to me:

<b>Gilligan - Detroit</b>
<b>McGlone - Detroit</b>

While I have all the 1887 issued Detroit poses, I still need more than half of the poses issued in 1888 & 1889. Most coveted of all are cards of Lady Baldwin and Deacon White. I'm always adding and upgrading so if you have a Detroit, I'd love to see it (N172, N173, N175).

Hi Jay,
Looking for Denvers, of course.
Scot

I collect Washington players. I started 15-20 years ago, and I originally collected all poses and variations - skinned or trimmed didn't matter. But after a few years, I realized that I had set my sights too high and that I had too many other collecting interests. So, now my goal is to acquire at least one card of every Washington player. The players I still need are:
Single player cards - Carney, Daly, Morrill, and Wise.
2 player cards - Gaffney & Schoch, Gardner & Gardner, and O'Brien & Irwin.

Jay - No, I do not have a Healy Ringed Cap, but if I did, it would cost you that Morrill card I traded you several years ago! :)

Danny - I have a "Washington Senators Checklist Book" that was put out in 1995 by DC area collector Tom Holster. It's 7-page listing of Old Judges contains all the poses and variations (presumably known at that time) for the Washington players. If you like, I'll be happy to scan these pages and email them to you if you will send me your email address.
Val
ekehl333@aol.com

Need Louisville Players
 

Hello I have been trying to find a skinned or trimmed Louisville player for my kentucky prewar card collection for a while now. I know they are tough to find but I would like to add a louisville player that was skinned or trimmed to my collection if anyone has one. You can message me at wacturner@hotmail.com or here on the board. As always thanks for all the help. Any player is fine.

TT

Need New Jersey Players
 

Technically, it's not a "team," but I'm chasing the All New Jersey Old Judge subset (Old Judge members who were either born in or died in New Jersey).

Of the 27, I am missing only Buster Hoover and Frank Hankinson. I'd appreciate help locating those two.