1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>It was the Summer of '47....my sister and I carefully opened up Homogenized Bond Bread packages, for a Joe DiMaggio, a Ted Williams,<br>a Stan Musial, or the new rookie sensation....a Jackie Robinson BB card. Our Mom couldn't buy enough of the Bond Bread loafs. So, we <br>had our Dad buying Bond Bread for his restaurant and our Aunt buying Bond Bread. In the Fall of 1947, we experienced one of the most<br> exciting World Series ever played. 1947 was a tremendous year for BB, and a great start for me in the wonderful life-long hobby of col-<br>lecting BB cards. These B/W cards were really popular with the kids in our neighborhood. By trading &amp; sharing our collections with each <br>other, we eventually realized that there were no more than 44 BB players and 4 Boxers in a complete set. <br><br><br>1947 Homogenized BOND BREAD wrapper<br><br><br><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bondbreadwrapper.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><br><br>Many cards in this set are the very 1st (or rookie) cards issued of the players. Shown here are the 1st cards of Yogi Berra, Stan Musial,<br>Jackie Pobinson, Gil Hodges, Ralph Kiner and Bobby Thomson. <br><br><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1947bb6rookiestars.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><br><br>This set has been the source of much confusion in the hobby for many years. The only true 1947 Bond Bread cards are these 48 in this<br> general set and the Jackie Robinson set. All of which have beveled (or ROUNDED) corners in order to fit into the bread loaf packages.<br>Unfortunately, other issues that resemble the Bond Bread cards that were issued after 1947 and were never packaged in Bond Bread loafs<br>have been mis-identified as &quot;1947 Bond Bread&quot; cards. Grading Co. have been most guilty of erroneously labeling these SQUARE &quot;imposters&quot;. <br><br>Shown here are two cards from the 1949 (unknown) issue which includes 24 of the BB players depicted in the 1947 Bond Bread issue and<br>an additional BB player (or 2). Also, many of the popular Movie Stars of that era were included. These cards may have been printed by the <br>same firm that printed the 1947 set. However, their SQUARE corners and their inferior cardboard stock belie the fact that these cards are<br> NOT related to the &quot;1947 Bond Bread&quot; issue. <br>A recent find of many of these SQUARE cards (BB and Movie Stars) suggest a 1949 issue date since Walker Cooper is depicted in this col-<br>lection as a NY Giant (Cooper was traded to Cinci in the Summer of '49).<br><br><br>1949 (unknown) issue<br><br><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1949cardsrizzutostewart.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><br><br><br>A 1947 Bond Bread Team/checklist will follow in the next post here.<br><br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Jim Thierfelder</b><p>Great post Ted, very informative.<br><br>The Bond bread cards are a little before my time but I always enjoy hearing stories about collecting before collecting was big business.

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Mark Tylicki</b><p>Great stuff Ted<br><br>Here's one of the Exhibit size issues labeled as a Bond Bread...<br><br><img src="http://www.rustywilly.com/cards/PSACARD/1229940_051_FRONT.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://www.rustywilly.com/cards/PSACARD/1229940_051_BACK.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Here is the Walker Cooper card that I noted in the initial post here. It was never included<br> in the original 1947 Bond Bread (ROUND cornered cards) issue. And, this fact tells us that<br> indeed there was a subsequent (SQUARE cornered cards) issue....totally unrelated to the<br> 1947 Bond Bread issue.<br><br><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1193714837/last-1195061538/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1193714837/last-1195061538/</a><br><br><br>Another factor telling us that these 2 issues (the 1947 and the &quot;1949&quot;) are unrelated....is<br>why are all 48 original cards not available in the SQUARE version ? <br><br>Only 24 of the BB cards and two of the Boxing cards from the 1947 set are in the SQUARE<br> version. And, added in the SQUARE version was Walker Cooper.<br><br>I do not claim to be an expert regarding these SQUARE cards. They are a real &quot;mystery&quot; to<br>most in the hobby. And, I do not know of anyone that can solve this mystery.<br><br>Any new thoughts on this subject are greatly appreciated. <br><br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Paradis</b><p>Excellent post Ted. Here's the few Bond Bread cards I have:<br><br>Dan<br><br><br><img src="http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u265/danp306/Berra1947BondBreadSGC30-1.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><img src="http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u265/danp306/P3110316.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Sean C</b><p>I've always wanted to know more about these cards, and specifically about the Robinson cards. I remember back in the late 80's, early 90's there was a reported big find of the square corner cards that were being sold through SCD and other hobby magazines. You can still usually find them for less than $100 or so. Were they legit, or just reprints?<br><br>While checking for an image of it on eBay, I did find this even more interesting card:<br><br><img src="http://joesvintagesportscards.com/Merchant2/graphics/Graded_Pics/G1_1229940-011.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><br>It's the same image as the Robinson I was referring to above, I've never seen or heard about it before (the cut or the image on the back. Does anyone have any info about it?

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bondbread1947jdybtwjr.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br>Listed here are the 44 BB cards in this set by Teams and the 4 Boxers<br><br>NEW YORK GIANTS<br>-------------------<br>JOHNNY MIZE<br>SID GORDON<br>LARRY JANSEN<br>SHELDON JONES<br>BUDDY KERR<br>WHITEY LOCKMAN<br>WILLARD MARSHALL<br>BOBBY THOMSON<br><br>BROOKLYN DODGERS<br>--------------------<br>JACKIE ROBINSON<br>REX BARNEY<br>RALPH BRANCA<br>BRUCE EDWARDS<br>CARL FURILLO<br>JOE HATTEN<br>GIL HODGES<br>PEE WEE REESE<br><br><br>NEW YORK YANKEES<br>--------------------<br>JOE DiMAGGIO<br>LARRY BERRA<br>JOE GORDON<br>CHARLIE KELLER<br>JOHNNY LINDELL<br>PHIL RIZZUTO<br>AARON ROBINSON<br><br>BOSTON RED SOX<br>------------------<br>TED WILLIAMS<br>DOM DIMAGGIO<br>BOBBY DOERR<br>JOHNNY PESKY<br><br>CLEVELAND INDIANS<br>---------------------<br>BOB FELLER<br>LOU BOUDREAU<br>KEN KELTNER<br>BIRDIE TEBBETTS<br><br>ST LOUIS CARDINALS<br>----------------------<br>STAN MUSIAL<br>HARRY BRECHEEN<br>ENOS SLAUGHTER<br><br>BOSTON BRAVES<br>-----------------<br>JOHNNY SAIN<br>BOB ELLIOTT<br>TOMMY HOLMES<br><br>CINCINNATI REDS<br>-------------------<br>EWELL BLACKWELL<br>JOHNNY VANDERMEER<br><br>CHICAGO CUBS<br>-------------<br>ANDY PAFKO<br><br>PHILADELPHIA ATHLETICS<br>--------------------------<br>EDDIE JOOST<br><br>PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES<br>-------------------------<br>DEL ENNIS<br><br>PITTSBURGH PIRATES<br>----------------------<br>RALPH KINER<br><br>ST LOUIS BROWNS<br>-------------------<br>VERN STEPHENS<br><br><br>BOXERS<br>--------<br>PRIMO CARNERA<br>MARCEL CERDAN<br>JAKE LAMOTTA<br>JOE LOUIS<br><br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>There is a significant difference in the cardboard stock used in the original 1947 Bond Bread cards <br>vs. the subsequent (unknown series) of SQUARE cards. When you compare these cards, you'll im-<br>mmediately notice......<br><br>1....the 1947 cards are slightly thicker<br><br>2....there is a faint gloss on the 1947 cards and not on the other cards<br><br>3....the contrast on the 1947 cards is superior to the other cards<br><br>4....the backs of the 1947 cards have retained their original white color.....while the backs of the<br>other cards have a &quot;toned&quot; effect.<br> <br><br>...................1947 BOND BREAD..................................SQUARE cards<br><br><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bondabkcompare.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Although Primo Carnera was the world heavyweight champ in the 1930s, technically, the card in this set is a wrestling card since he is shown in his wrestling garb. Doesn't make a difference on pricing; he is still collected as a boxer. <br><br>Hate to cause confusion, but the cards were sold in 4 boxes of 12 each as &quot;Sports Star Subjects&quot;. I have a scan of the cards in the boxes from some auction years ago (don't recall which one). The front cards on the boxes are DiMaggio, Hodges, Slaughter and Robinson. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks MARK....DAN....SEAN....for the great scans of your cards.<br><br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>You have made my day with this statement of yours......<br><br>&quot;&quot; Hate to cause confusion, but the cards were sold in 4 boxes of 12 each as &quot;Sports Star Subjects&quot;. &quot;&quot;<br><br><br>On the contrary....no &quot;confusion&quot; here, guy. Indeed, confirmation of the SQUARE cards being issued as a<br> set of their own. It's been my understanding that the SQUARE cards were 1st available in 1949, and into<br> the 1950's in small boxes. Until now, I have referred to the SQUARE cards as an &quot;unknown&quot; issue. Thanks<br> to you, now we can identify them as the &quot;Sports Star Subjects&quot; issue.....NOT a &quot;1947 Bond Bread&quot; issue.<br> <br> <br>Shown here are 3 of the SQUARE cards. Two of which are the BB/Movie Star cards....Lou Boudreau/Ingrid<br>Bergen and Johnny Mize/Victor Mature.<br><br>Also, note the difference in the width of the Bond Bread Jansen card vs its SQUARE card counterpart. The <br>Bond Bread cards are consistently 1/16 th of an inch narrower.<br><br>..| |&lt;--1/16th inch&lt;br&gt;<br><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abbmizeboudreau2jansen.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bbbergmanmaturejansenbks.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Steve F</b><p>TZ, This, being square-cornered, is a '49 then?<br><br><img src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c327/oche16/Postwar%20baseball/bond-1.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/jacklitsch1/Post%20War%20Cards/SquareFronts.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/jacklitsch1/Post%20War%20Cards/SquareBacks.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Does anyone know whether the same actors appear with the same athletes, or are different combos possible?<br><br>Also, at the National a few years ago I purchased a rounded corners card of George Raft (actor); were there actor cards issued as well in 1947 in bread? <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Can you please post F &amp; B scans of the the George Raft card ?<br><br>Also, match the width of this Raft card with any SQUARE card. Is its width different, or is it the same ?<br><br>In 1947, in our neighborhood in NJ, we had 100's of the 1947 Bond Bread cards. I definitely recall that we<br> never found any movie star cards in the Bond bread packages. I have never seen or heard of any ROUND<br> cornered cards of movie stars.<br>Perhaps, they were inserted in bread packages out west ? ?<br><br><br>TED Z<br><br><br><br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Sean C</b><p>I don't own that perforated card Ted, it's one of Shoeless Joe's cards. I was just posting the image from his listing of it on eBay, as I had never seen one like it before.

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>JDRUM</b><p>Ted,<br>Nice thread as usual. I have a couple of ???? Did the cards come one to a loaf? Is there any way to know whether these cards were &quot;out&quot; bf the 1947 Tip Top bread cards? Thanks.<br><br>Jeff<br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>Now I'm really confused. I assumed that the square corner cards and the perforated cards were two entirely separate sets. But Ted seems to be lumping them together in his posts. Is there any reason to believe these are both actually from the same set?

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Now I have to dig it out of the cupboard.<br><br>I can't compare it with the square cornered cards; I don't own any. It is exactly the same size as my round cornered Joe Louis, Jake LaMotta and Marcel Cerdan cards. Here is a picture of Louis and Raft side by side. Same white stock backs too. <br><br><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1238954859.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> <br><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1238955027.JPG" alt="[linked image]">

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p><img src="http://www.baseballcardresource.com/img/47Bond/Pages_A.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>You are assuming something from my above scan of the 4 cards. I did not say that the BB/Movie Star<br> combo cards were issued at the same time as the SQUARE card issue (that Adam W. identified as the <br>&quot;Sports Star Subjects&quot; issue).<br>Judging from the consistent discoloration of these perforated dual-cards, I'd say they were printed and <br>issued in the 1950's.<br><br>This brings up another mystery regarding the SQUARE cards that we haven't discussed yet. And, that<br>is the &quot;warehouse find&quot; of 1000's of these cards in the early 1980's by David Festberg.<br><br>I think the cards in this find are REPRINTS that may never have been in circulation. Until, of course, <br>David started selling them.<br>The cardboard that these cards are printed on is not as thick as the original cards. And, the printing<br>quality and contrast of these cards is inferior to the original cards.<br><br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>As always great info. Thanks Ted.<br><br>Steve

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>JEFF....two good &quot;Q's&quot;......<br><br>First, it's been 62 years since I was pulling these cards out of the Bond Bread loaves....so, I don't<br> recall if there was one card or two in the package. I'll ask my sister, who seems to remember such <br>trivia better than I.<br><br>2nd....Tip Top bread was actually the favorite in our house back in the 1940's and '50's. However,<br> the bread we bought from the stores in the Hillside, NJ area never had the Tip Top cards in them.<br> So, I can't give you an answer on this one. Perhaps, we will get lucky, and have some one on this<br>forum chime in with the issue date of the Tip Top bread cards.<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>I haven't forgotten you, guy. The 1947 BOND BREAD Jackie Robinson set of 13 cards was indeed issued in 1947.<br>These cards are the exact same size (2 1/4 x 3 1/2) as the general 1947 BOND BREAD set of 48 cards. However,<br>it's my understanding that the JRobby cards were never inserted in the BOND BREAD packages....therefore, there<br>was not a need to bevel their corners....so they remained SQUARE.<br><br>They were promotional cards honoring JRobby that were issued by Bond Bread. I have heard that they were most <br>likely distributed in the greater NYC area. We never saw them in our neighborhood stores in NJ.<br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>It's amazing what shows up on this forum. Your George Raft card is very cool. Raft was a &quot;cool&quot; villain <br>in the movies back when I was a kid. There is no doubt that this card was packaged in a BOND BREAD <br>loaf. Otherwise, why would it have rounded corners ? It certainly has the picture quality of the 48 cards <br>in the 1947 Homogenized BOND BREAD set.<br>However, I would guess that Bond Bread was inserting movie stars in their bread packages subsequent<br> to the BB (and Boxing) cards of 1947. Furthermore, including movie stars in with the Bond bread may've<br>been a regional thing. I have never seen (or heard) of Bond Bread packaging of movie star cards before<br> you mentioned your Raft card. And, I've compared experiences collecting these Bond Bread cards with<br> other hobbyists who collected these cards as kids (in Boston, Cleveland, St louis, etc.) and no one ever<br> brought up any other cards than the known 48 in the '47 set.<br>You have a really &quot;rare bird&quot; in your George Raft card. <br><br><br>TED Z<br><br> <br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Very neat, thanks for sharing it with us. The original 1947 Bond Bread cards were available in the bread loaves in the Sring of '47<br> thru sometime in 1948. After then they were premiums in several grocery products such as your display.<br><br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>I rescued George from a junk box on a dealer's table because of his association with the Jewish mob. Raft ran with a tough crowd as a kid but happened to be talented enough to have a different route out of poverty. He was a friend of several major crime figures, including Bugsy Siegel and Meyer Lansky. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>David M</b><p>Ted, I was one of those that bought a &quot;set&quot; from David Festberg back in the 1980's. I believe it is unlikely that anyone reprinted these cards and then stuck them in a warehouse. It seems more likely that they were leftovers from the &quot;Sports Star Subjects&quot; issue that Mr. Festberg then found stored. You said the cards David sold were inferior to the originals in print quality and contrast but how do they compare to the &quot;Sports Star Subjects&quot; cards. Are they the same? I guess that leaves us with the other question. Where do we think the combo cards came from? <br><br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Bob C</b><p><br>Good information Ted. Here is a Primo Carnera card I bought from Larry Fritsch a few years ago along with some others. They were indeed advertised as 1947 Bond Bread.<br>Primo way past his time here...any excuse to wear tights I guess <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"><br><br><img src="http://www.rbcraik.com/ebay/primobond.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>In 1946, a few years after he finally retired as a fighter, Primo Carnera became a wrestler and wrestled until retiring in 1961. So did Joe Louis for a time when he needed the money. If you see the movie &quot;Requiem For A Heavyweight&quot; where Anthony Quinn's broken-down fighter ends up being a pro wrestler afterwards, that's based on Carnera. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Hey big guy.....in 1956, Playhouse 90 (on TV) also did &quot;Requiem for a Heavyweight&quot; with Jack Palance in the lead role.<br>Both performances (the TV one and the movie) were great. Anthony Quinn has always been one of my favorite actors. <br><br>I will reiterate.....you have enlighten us on 2 fronts in this thread.....identifying the early version of the SQUARE cards <br>as the &quot;Sports Star Subjects&quot; issue....and, the existence of Bond Bread packaged movie star cards. <br><br>This thread is a great example of the powerful resources we have in this forum. I really appreciate your contributions<br>here in unraveling some of the mysteries associated with these cards.<br><br>Best regards,<br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>It's my understanding that only 24 cards (22 BB and Joe Louis &amp; Primo Carnera) were in the sets that Dave Festberg sold.<br>Is this true for the set you have ?<br><br>You may be right about the cards in Festburg's &quot;find&quot; not being &quot;Reprints&quot;; however, illustrated here is the problem I have<br>with the &quot;Festburg cards&quot;.<br><br> <br>.................1947 Bond Bread.....................&quot;1949 Sports Star Subjects&quot;<br><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abb2jansen2stephens.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br>.................1947 Bond Bread.....................card from Festburg &quot;find&quot;<br><br>BACKS<br><br><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bbb2jansen2stephens.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br>Note the difference in the discolored cardboard of the Festburg &quot;find&quot; card<br><br>Furthermore, the two Jansen cards and the 1947 Bond Bread Stephens card are printed on thicker cardboard than the<br> SQUARE Stephens card. Also, there is a higher printing quality (contrast) in two Jansen cards and the 1947 Bond Bread <br>Stephens card with respect to the Stephens card of the Festberg find.<br><br>David....one final question....if you tell me that your set has only 24 cards, then what happened to the other 24 cards<br>in the original set of 48 cards ?<br> <br>Best regards and thanks for posting,<br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>David M</b><p>Ted, thanks for responding. I'll have to check what cards I have when I get home and I'll post an answer.<br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>David M</b><p>Ted, I do indeed have 24 cards in my &quot;set&quot;. However, none are discolored on the back as you show. They are a creamy white. The 24 include Stan Musial, Jackie Robinson, Ted Williams, Ralph Kiner, Phil Rizzuto, Enos Slaughter, Bob Feller, Johnny Mize, Lou Boudreau, Bobbie Doerr, John Sain, Vern Stephens, Ken Keltner, Bob Elliott, Johnny Pesky, Ewell Blackwell, Del Ennis, Andy Pafko, Harry Brechen, Joe Gordon, Aaron Robinson, Tommy Holmes, and Joe Louis, and Primo Carnera. They are of course, square cornered and thinner than a regular card. But I can't explain why the backs appear different than what you are reporting.

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks for posting your cards.....and, judging from the backs, your cards appear to be uncirculated ones from the Sports<br> Star Subjects issue. Just as you previously said.<br><br>All I can say is that these little B/W cards never cease to amaze me. I was under the impression that Festberg's find con-<br>sisted of the SQUARE cards printed on the &quot;inferior&quot; cardboard stock. Back to the drawing board for me....because we still<br>haven't determined the source of the cards that are on thinner stock whose backs are discolored.<br><br>I still maintain that some where along the line, some one &quot;reprinted&quot; (or reproduced) them from the 24 cards in your set. As, <br>the identical subjects are found with the inferior cardboard (and, none of the other 24 in the original 1947 Bond Bread set).<br><br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>David M</b><p>Ted, that theory makes sense. So when do we think the 24 cards I have were made (1949)? It's a shame all of the square cornered cards have been lumped together by the grading companies. I think it was mentioned before that the major grading companies won't grade these, is that correct? Maybe this thread will make them rethink their position on these cards.

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>1. Where do we fit in the PC sized cards?<br><br>2. Who is known in the PC sized cards?<br><br>3. Has anyone compiled a checklist of the 2 sided perforated cards?<br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>David M</b><p>Adam, I have some other questions regarding the cards you mentioned, the &quot;Sports Star Subjects&quot;. You said they were issued in 4 boxes of 12 each. So I assume that means there are 48 different cards in that issue which would match the original 1947 Bond Bread cards. You mentioned these cards and how they were sold. Did you see them for sell in the store, if so what year? Or did you see the boxes for sell in some auction? It would be great if we were able to figure out the date of issue. <br><br>I noticed your George Raft card doesn't have the same script used for his name as the baseball and boxing cards. Based on this significant difference, my guess is that your movie star card is not really one of the bread cards. Or if it is, it is from a completely different year. But that's just a guess. <br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>The Movie Stars' cards had their names printed.....note my Jimmy Stewart card.<br><br><br><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1949cardsrizzutostewart.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><br><br>George Raft had close connections to Baseball. As a teenager, he was a bat-boy for the New York<br> Highlanders (circa 1910). He also tried out for semi-pro baseball before becoming a movie star. An<br> avid baseball fan, George Raft would attend every World Series from the late 1920's thru to 1957.<br><br>Barry Sloate has seen many autographed items (photos, etc.) of Raft with star BB players.<br><br><br>TED Z<br><br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>I have been reading this thread with interest and have now scanned a 1/22/93 SCD article concerning the 24 card &quot;subset&quot;. Whether or not the author's comments are all true I cannot say but is does shed some light no matter:<br><br><img src="http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p280/dsh46/Bond1.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><img src="http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p280/dsh46/bond2.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><img src="http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p280/dsh46/bond3.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks for digging up this article. It essentially covers about everything we have mulled over in<br> th 40 posts in this thread.<br><br>There is one comment in it that confirms my understanding of the Festberg &quot;warehouse find&quot; of<br> the SQUARE cards. The author notes &quot;the square cards are beige backed, while the round cards<br> are stark white&quot;.<br><br>Yet, David M. has one of these sets and the backs of his 24 cards are &quot;stark white&quot; ? ?<br><br>This is really becoming frustrating, we just cannot arrive at a consistent set of facts regarding<br>these SQUARE cards.<br><br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>I currently own a round cornered Joe Louis (illustrated above). I've also had the square cornered ones in the past. The round Louis I own is the only one I've ever found up for sale. The square cards are available all the time. I think we may actually have a situation where the round cards went into bread, the square cards went into boxes, and the find added 3000 cards each to the pop of 24 of the square cards. <br><br>Here is an image of the cards in the boxes; I guess these would be W571<br><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1239159034.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>David M</b><p>Ok, so based on the cards showing through the front of these boxes, the Festberg &quot;find&quot; was of series 3 and series 4 cards. That means the more difficult to find cards are all from series 1 and 2. Thanks for posting the picture of the boxes.

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>But why is there a difference in back color between the Festberg find and the ones that were sold in boxes?

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>The set of 48 (SQUARE) cards in the Sports Star Subjects issue are most likely &quot;excess press runs&quot;<br> of cards from the original 1947 Bond Bread set. The 1947 ROUND cards were available in Bond bread<br> from 1947 thru 1948. My guess is that the Sports Star Subjects set was available in 1949 thru the<br>1950's. <br><br>In my opinion, the source of the 3000 cards in the Festberg find are anyone's guess.....&quot;reprints&quot; or <br>whatever. If their backs are discolored (&quot;beige&quot;....as the article described), then they are definitely<br>not &quot;excess&quot; cards from the original 1947 printing.<br><br>This has been my contention from the start, and it still stands. Unless someone can otherwise con-<br>vince me.<br><br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>The pictures for many of the 1947 Bond Bread cards were derived from the Team Photo Packs sold at the souvenir stands at the Stadiums.<br><br>Any one know if the same printing firm printed the photos and the cards ?<br><br><br><br><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1947stadpixbbcards.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><br><br>TED Z<br><br>

1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>JDRUM asked an excellent question earlier in this thread......<br>&quot;Is there any way to know whether these cards (1947 Bond Bread) were &quot;out&quot; bf the 1947 Tip Top bread cards?&quot;<br><br>Jeff.....I've looked into this, and judging from my Tip Top Yankees team sub-set which includes Mel Queen, my best<br> guess is that the Tip Top set was issued in the Spring of '47. Mel Queen was traded to the Pittsburgh in July of '47.<br><br>I did not collect the Tip Top cards as a kid....However, I think it is safe to say that the Bond and Tip Top sets were<br> issued simultaneously.<br><br><br>I highly recommend to Net54er's to view a video (or read) of the events of the 1947 World Series. There were many<br> stars in this exciting 7-game series. Over the years it's been very interesting how average ballplayers have raised the<br> level of their game in World Series play to become the &quot;hero&quot;.<br><br>Johnny Lindell was such a &quot;hero&quot; in the 1947 W. S. Besides his two tremendous diving catches in LF to squelch Dodger<br> rallies....his batting Stats led both teams.<br><br>6.........Games (injury kept him out of 7th game)<br>18.......AB<br>9.........Hits<br>7....... ..RBI<br>.500.....BA<br>.778.....SLA <br><br><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1947bbstadpixlindell.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><br>TED Z<br><br>

Some more bread, or "shoe" cards
 

See attached for some movie stars. I thought the back was interesting as I hadn't seen the 46 cards mentioned before like this. The Hess reference looks to be a stamp added after printing.

Before I begin, let me state that this is an old thread (from early 2009........I can still remember that year as though it was yesterday....).


This is for prosperity and for Ted Z.... The following eBay item just ended:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230415942970

It was for the complete 24 card '47 Bond Bread imposter cards/set (22 baseball + Joe Louis & Primo Carnera) which were unearthed by Dave Festberg. The seller stated he purchased the set in 1990 from B&J as noted in the SCD article. The card backs were the beige variety not the white version.

I passed on bidding on this item but was surprised to see it only sold for $102 (Nr/Mt set). I have always greatly appreciated everything I have learned (and continue learning) about this set from Ted Z., but at the end of his dissertations it always makes my head hurt. Plus, there is always the possibility that it is in fact a reprinted set. Guess, others feel the same way.

Lovely Day...

He also was a pro boxer under the name Brownie Ranft. He had 17 fights before calling it quits.

HAPPY NEW YEAR to all Net54er's
 

Here's George Raft (upper rightmost) and 9 of the major Movie Stars in this set (circa 1949).
Incidently, the backs of these cards are white.

George Raft had close connections to Baseball. As a 15-year old, he was a bat-boy for the New York Highlanders (circa 1910).
He also tried out for semi-pro baseball before becoming a movie star. An avid baseball fan, George Raft attended every World
Series from the late 1920's thru to 1957.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...viestars10.jpg



TED Z

Rita Hayworth....nothing wrong with that!!!!

A few weeks ago my best friend from H.S. brought me some of his cards
to take a look at and give him an idea on the value of some of them.

Among them were these cards. I remember him telling me about them
when he got them. His mother purchased them for him through an add
in the NY Times back in the late 80's-early 90's.

I found this old thread while doing some research and I believe they
must have come from the "Festberg" find. Is there any new info on
these, any idea's on the value of them. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Patrick

Pat.....guess you can call this an imposter. I dont recall the name of this set. It has the same front of Aaron Robinson one side(as one of the cards you have) and an actor(recognize the face but dont know actor's name) on other side of the card. Presumably same year.

Neat cards....have pics on both sides, I have them classified as W571/D305- Bond Bread perforated, but more research is needed. Even in looking at one of the revisions (1967) of the ACC it is difficult to pinpoint their designation....From what I remember W571 was the best I could do :).


http://luckeycards.com/pw571perforated1947holmes.jpg

So is there a conclusion as to the designation of the square borders and are they listed in the Standard Catalog?

Hi Lee
 

Lee

Email me and I will discuss this further...... tedzan11@comcast.net

TED Z

Jackie 1947?
 

What do you think? Is it a 1947 or later
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-JACKIE-...item35d97b133a

Hi Michael
 

It looks like a 1947 from the BOND BREAD packages. All four corners appear to have a (partial) bevel. I say "partial" since the corner cuts
are not clean-cut.

I wish the seller would have shown the back of this card....in order for me to be certain that it is an original 1947.


TED Z

Picked this up recently and it seems to be made by the same production people as the Bond etc. cards and related materials. It is the size of a commemorative postage stamp, blank backed, real photo.

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...ll%20Stamp.jpg

Later

When the square-cornered versions came out in the '90's, there were opinions expressed that someone had found the original printing plates, and recenty ran off some more of at least select cards. I have the Mize and Kiner, acquired during that time period. Those do show the characteristic regular dot pattern which is consistent with them having been made from the original plates.

Best,

Larry

Some more perforated cards, and proof that the Hess Shoes was just a back stamp:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...orated%205.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...orated%207.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...rated%2012.JPG

Elgee says 46 cards of sports, Hollywood and cowboys and we know there are 44 ballplayers, 4 boxers and a bunch of actors potentially available. The ad looks to be 2 cards wide. I suspect there are at least two sheets, maybe more. Leon shows the Holmes with a FB player back, but the Holmes I am getting has actor Van Johnson on the back, and all three of the ad cards have different cowboy fronts. The group I purchased breaks down as follows:

Jackie Robinson/James Cagney
Pee Wee Reese/Western Back
Larry Jansen/Western Back
Harry Brecheen/Western Back
Rex Barney/Western Back
Bruce Edwards/Western Back
Buddy Kerr/Western Back
Roy Rogers/Western Back
Cary Grant/Western Back
Sheldon Jones/Western Back
Willard Marshall/Western Back
Tommy Holmes/Van Johnson
Claudette Colbert/Western Back
Ginger Roberts/Western Back
Gregory Peck/Western Back
Jennifer Jones/Western Back
Katherine Hepburn/Western Back
Lon McCallister/Western Back
Sonja Heine/Western Back
Western Front w/ Three Men/Ad Back
Western Front w/Two Men/Ad Back
Western Front w/One Man/Ad Back

Maybe we can take a shot at a master list?

One more
 

Exhibitman, congrats on the group. I bid fairly heavily on this auction as well.

As far as your master list, I have one card I can add:

Ted Williams Front/Babe Zaharias back (have seen 3 of these, but no other combo with either Ted or Babe)

Dave

I was able to piece together a partial sheet. Definitely 4 cards across.

Can't believe I missed that auction! If you ever decide to sell the Robinson, please let me know.

Amazing lot!

If I sell Robby it would be an auction because I have no idea how to price one.

I asked this two years ago and going to try again in hope of getting a clear answer.

What is the conclusion to the designation of the square cornered baseball issues? 47 Bond, 47 Homogenizied or something else?

Thanks

Lee

Hi Lee

The Square cards were issued in 1948 or 1949 and marketed as "Sports Star Subjects". The proof of this issue date(s) is the inclusion of the Walker Cooper card
as a NY Giant (this subject was not in the original 1947 Bond Bread issue). Furthermore, Cooper was traded to Cinci in the Summer of '49.

The Sports Star Subjects set of 48 (SQUARE) cards were sold in 4 boxes of 12 cards each.


TED Z
.

Thanks for clearing this up, Ted

Lee

Has anyone been tracking these issues in terms of the RC nuttiness? Has it spilled into this collecting backwater?

Oh, and here's the Jackie Robinson image as I seem to have killed the one that was posted before:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...son-Cagney.jpg

Lee

I'm still researching this Sports Star Subjects set. I have yet to find any of the 4 packets containing 12 cards each
that these Square cards were sold in.

I've seen (or had) several of the individual cards (including the Walker Cooper card). Here's my Rizzuto and a sample
of the Movie Star issue (circa 1949-1950). I have a near complete set of the Movie Stars.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...utostewart.jpg


Refer to post #8 in this thread to distinguish the original (1949) Square cards from the "Festberg find" Square reprint
cards with respect to the difference in the color of their backs (white vs. toned).

Looking forward to seeing you at the National.


TED Z
.

I'm not a card guy, but are those expensive per card

Some of my Bond Bread cards

Generally speaking it's not an expensive set relative to others.

Kenny- great looking cards there!!

I believe this photo appeared in the original thread but I think the picture of the cards issued in the boxes disappeared. Here's the photo.

David M

Thanks for posting those packets.

They are the 4 packets of the Sports Star Subjects set (Square cards) that I alluded to in post #72 here.


TED Z
.

Is there a checklist for each series of the Sports Stars? It says on the front of the boxes that each series contains 12 cards, but I am not sure if they are all baseball or if they are mixed sports.

That shot of robinson was also used in there picture pack.

Regarding The Imposters-Pafko
 

I have no idea if this is relevant to the good work Ted and others have done but...I noticed that the same image was used in the "Imposter Series" as was used in the '38 Salutation Exhibit. It is clear to me by the brim on Andy's cap. Those boxes were very nice to see!!!