REA Old Mill unopened pack
 

There is a nice Old Mill unopened pack in REA....

What would u do if you have 10 of these Old Mill unopened packs, would u at least open one and check whether there's any t206/t210 card inside? (I would)

I would open it even if I only had one pack, would also hope it was a T210.

I would open if I only had one pack also. But I would want a T206

perhaps the cart before the horse
 

factory and stamp are only SUGGESTIVE of a card. The pack may have been produced 3/4 years AFTER any cards were included. Also, for me (NOT an expert) the cellophane/onion skin thing bothers me a little. I have owned 5/6 DIFFERENT early brands with the covering and none have had a cancel date (when available) earlier than 1917.

It's a COOL pack. I am only starting a conversation for them what might be interested. Perhaps I'm completely wrong. I CAN say that owning a few or more of these packs and not opening one is also a bit "mysterious". I have opened a pack from 2 different cartons in my years of doing this. One was a Sweet Caporal of the same vintage. Neither had a card inside and I made that QUITE CLEAR when I went to sell all but the first one. I guess what I'm suggesting is that there are likely a few variables at play - not withstanding WHAT KIND OF CARD might be included if there was one.

I ran thru the listing a bit quickly - carton shown????

OK - have at it - I can take it. Remember - it's only an opinion.

No guarantees whether written or implied.

My guess is the owner had already opened one of those ten packs that he had and he knows there's no t206/t210 inside but obviously he wouldn't tell anyone otherwise he wouldn't make any money on those remaining packs that he had.

I think it said
 

long time advanced collector. If so he/she would know that CONFIRMING the existence of a card would exponentially increase the value of the packs.

With unopened material - more often than not - it's about selling the sizzle and not the steak......

It's my pack! Feel free to message me with any questions!

No...I did not open one, as I just do not believe in destroying artifacts as I found them. And by opening one of these, it would be altering the artifact forever. Feel free to discuss these amazing packs with me anytime! It was an incredible collection of packs, all full. A&G tins and soft tobacco packs, Fatima, Relu and quite a few full cigar boxes were also included in the find as well as the 10 Old Mills and its original carton! It was almost like a bunch of NOS found from an old General Store up in North Dakota. And they are pure white under the fragile outer rice paper wrapper.

I traded one of these to a board member back in June. His photos and testimonial was left in the June Pickups thread from a few months ago. Feel free to check that out too! :)

Never Any Guarantees............
 

No one is going to "come at you" on this post. Everything that you've said is absolutely true.

I'm the board member who acquired one of these unopened packs back in June, and posted same here, in a couple of different threads.

When acquiring an unopened tobacco pack, there is never a guarantee that same includes a card of any kind--much less a baseball card. All collectors like me can ask for, is a properly dated tax stamp and some evidence that the representations being made by the seller/consignor re the pack being unopened and not having been tampered with, are true.

In this case, I have known and done business with the consignor for many years (as the circle of collectors with a focus on these types of packs, is quite small). He told me all about the "find," and sent extensive pictures. I'm sure he would have no problem posting a pic of the partial carton here, or send it to anyone who asks, via pm. We have completed several transactions in the past, and I can state with full confidence that the Old Mills pack(s) in question are unopened, have the properly-dated tax stamp and are almost as fresh as the day they were manufactured.

Yes, there are no guarantees that there's a card inside, but I would never, ever open one of these packs to find out. The mystery is half the fun!

Michael

Can't you feel the pack to tell if there are cards on it? I don't collect these, but another collector I know picked up a pack (SC I believe) and he said that he could feel the cards in the pack.

Is the pack sealed on the top/bottom? It looks like there aren't any seal and the "pull out shell" can easily taken out from the case.

Also, can someone post how the carton box look like?

Bring the pack to the hospital and see if they will x-ray it (or do an MRI on it, etc.) to see if anything is inside. Or find someone waiting in the radiology department and ask them to hold the pack as they get their scans done. :)

Go to a courthouse and have them X-Ray it. Ask them if there's a weapon inside.

Here are a few pictures of the carton with the remaining four little indians which I am keeping for my collection. The fifth pack is the example which this thread is discussing. And I let the other five go over the last 8-10 months to long-time acquaintances/friends in our hobby, who I must say have given them very comfortable homes within their collections. :)

The carton is interesting. As you can see, it once held 50 packs of 10, totaling 500. I am not sure this is something an individual smoker would purchase all for themselves. I mentioned in an earlier comment on this thread how the collection had the feel of a NOS remains of an old general store. This 500 count carton looks more like a retail counter box than a personal carton. I wish the lid to the box was still present. But only the bottom portion remained. I am thinking the lid was the same illustration as each pack, showing the mill and creek. The colors are gorgeous. And I found the perfect acrylic case to fit the box!

On a side note, there may be an important clue on these packs regarding their timeline which was not mentioned in the auction catalog. The Liggett & Myers name is not referenced anywhere on the carton or individual packs. I believe L&M acquired the Old Mill brand from the deregulation of the ATC around late 1911 or early 1912, at the same time as the Piedmont brand. Their conditions are absolutely superb. That combined with the Factory 25 Virginia designation makes all this very cool.

It would only allow me to post one photo at a time. So here is another angle.

Those are beautiful. The ones without the wrapper, is there something else sealing them from being opened? I ask because I have never seen one.

There is a reason I only have one unopened item. I would have to open one of those just to see if there was anything inside.:)

Yes, the colors are crisp and explode. The naked ones do not budge when gently pushing to slide. They are pretty stiff from the inside. But I have not been pushing with much force either. X-rays don't work. Professionally, I am an orthopaedic fitter who immobilizes injuries like fractures & sprains. We already tried it. :)

There's got to be some sort of machine that can look inside. Maybe reach out to the History or Discovery Channel, they would be a cool investigative episode. :)

My girlfriend is a Radiologist, I can ask her tonight if she knows of any scanning equipment that can pick up whether or not a card is inside.

Thx for posting additional pics. Since there aren't any seals on the top/bottom, it is hard to guarantee it is "unopened".

The seals you mention were obviously never on these packs. They apparently were sealed by the outer wrapper and an additional internal seal, maybe for freshness. Old Mill must have done it differently than Kinney Sweet Caporal or Piedmont. Plus, statistically speaking the sample size of 10 discovered actually allows for some confirmation & proof on several 117 year old questions. :)