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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>The "Back to the Basics" thread really has me inspired and I would like to begin collecting pre-war cards as opposed to the post 1950's stuff I have been collecting for a little while. In all actuality this board overall has been the gardner that planted this seed in me. My only issue right now is being able to afford these 'billy-badass' cards you guys post on a daily-basis. So my question is where can I spend less than $100 per card to get started collecting (specific cheaper old set singles, poor conditions, etc. - recommendations please)? I don't mind the condition (obviously for the price I can't afford to be picky), I would value the cards all the same. Something about the nostalgia of the items that old - I dunno. I'm hooked though, and I don't even have my first pre-war card. Speaking of which anyone have a "Trae's first vintage card" they'd be willing to sell for like $20 or so? Anything will suffice, and I would greatly appreciate it. I don't want a hand-out but if you have any old stuff worth $20 that you would be willing to part with I'd be stoked!<br /><br />Thanks <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Bryan</b><p>Ebay is your best I think for what you might be looking for. Also there are some vintage auction links from the "home page" on this forum that from time to time have lower grade vintage material on hand and you can pick them up pretty cheap at times. Being patient is a must. Glad to have you aboard though. Send me an e-mail and I can help you get started. I am always willing to help someone get into the hobby of pre-war cards. PLus, I might be able to help out from time to time when it comes finding lower grade pre-war cards. The guys on this forum are the best that you will find when it comes to this topic and I'm sure that there are many out here in internet-land that would happy to give you all the help that they can.

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Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>Lower grade 1933-4 Goudeys are of high quality (colorful), yet are readily available and affordable.

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>Right after typing this I went to eBay and found plenty of goodies for rather cheap! Why I didn't think of that in the first place, who knows - I am just excited. I am sure you all know the feeling. I will email you Bryan, thank you! For some reason I was under the impression all of these cards costed atleast a few hundred bucks each minimum. I really do need to educate myself, or become educated rather. From what I understand there is too much 'rip-off potential'. I lurk around here a lot though, and I feel pretty confident that I can trust those of you here on this subject especially.

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Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>Also, nothing will ever beat a good T206-- even if a common player, common back and lower grade. There's a reason the T206s are so popular.

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>Thanks, Hank. I definitely found plenty of T206's on eBay for reasonable deals - I am about to overflow just sitting here checking everything out. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />I hate to ask this question, but I have to know, exactly what year ends 'pre-war' designation?

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Posted By: <b>Bryan</b><p><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Rob L</b><p>Try the T201 doublefolders. An easy set to collect (only 50 cards, 2 players per card) with a number of HOFs. Fairly cheap also.

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Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>It means before the US entered WWII. There are few during WWII baseball cards, so it's usually clear when you look at a particualar set.<br /><br />The US first declared war on December 8 1941, so pretty much anything from 1941 and earlier can be considered Pre-War. Of course, stuff from during the war can be collected as well.

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>Rob, 1911 and 1912 Mecca is what I found with 2 players, are those the correct T201 sets you're referring to - which would you suggest?<br /><br />Where's the number preceding the Txxx in Tobacco sets come from?

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Posted By: <b>Greg</b><p>Pick up a book that has a good history of baseball and learn about some of the non-hall of famers during the era you want to collect. It can make some "common" players more interesting. I would suggest T206's, the players in the set represent the era well, and there are a ton of ways to go about collecting them.<br />-Greg

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Posted By: <b>Rob L</b><p>Trae,<br /><br />Yep. The T201 Mecca doublefolders were from 1911 and contained two players. The card folded and the player on the back shared the legs with the player on the front. Also has the stats for both players from the 1910 season. They weren't done in 1912, although there is a triple folder card that were issued that year with Hassan cigarette packs.<br /><br />Rob<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>I would say 15 years after the Spanish American War, and 1 year before WWI started in Europe.<br />That'll put us about 1913.<br />Don't ask me why 1913, I guess I just like rounded numbers.<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Collect whatever you like, and like whatever you collect.<br />The bottom line is to enjoy and have fun.<br /><br />Have lots of fun! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Joe P.

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>"Pre-war" depends on the context (you're probably confused as to which war it means by now!). If you say "I've been collecting '50s and '60s cards, but would like to get into "prewar stuff" people will assume you mean WW2, but if you say, "I've finsihed my (1933) Goudey set, and want to get into "pre-war", they'll assume you mean WW1 (14-18).<br /><br />David Rudd: I thought we declared war on Japan on December 7, '41--Pearl Harbor Day. But maybe it took a day to get it together, and you would be right.

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>Yes Ma'm, Trae as in "the third" and I am from the South... Florida. Thank you for clarifying the war stuff.<br /><br />Psstt... I think I found the first card I am going to buy. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Rob L</b><p>OK Trae. What card is it going to be?

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>A card offered in an email by another member. A T206 Chief Bender Card, he's HOF and he coined the slider, so I think it would be a great first card. Few more bucks then I had intended to spend, but hey if I am going to get into this genre of the hobby I can't spend $20 on every card and expect to have some monumental collection. I am awaiting a reply from Bryan and will work from there to get it. I browsed around eBay but my first puchase is a special one, so I am going to try and find something I am genuinely interested in rather then just grabbing up every cheap-o I see. Thanks for the help so far everyone.<br /><br />No one has yet answered where the number designation comes from following the 'T' in all the 'Txxx' sets. I'm interested to know. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>Bender was a member of the Chippewa Tribe and went to the famous Carlyle Indian School (where Jim Thorpe played football).

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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>T, and other first letter designations were created by the legendary Jefferson Burdick. He published the American Card Catalog, and gave the sets different designations so they could be distinguished, one from the other. I believe the T is for tobacco, as the sets beginning with a "T" were all issued with tobacco products.<br /><br />I believe the ACC was first published in the 1940's.

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>Too cool, so they didn't even have the name until 30 years after they were created. Thanks for the 411.

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Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>Let's try T as in Twentieth Century American tobacco card.<br />N as in Nineteen Century.

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Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Trae: You won't go wrong with including a t206 Bender as your first pre-war card. But there are lots of different sets, prices and choices available to you. In order to make more informed decisions, it often is a good idea to pick up a reference book or two. These help to serve as an overview in your early learning of what is out there, and if chosen wisely, they can continue to provide the same function even when you begin to know it all.<br /><br />One such reference which I continue to find extremely valuable was written by Lew Lipsett. There are three publications which provide summaries and detail regarding different pre-war segments. I believe that you sometimes can get all three in a single publication. In any case, the reference material I recommend is Lipsett's Encyclopwedia of Baseball Cards, Vol 1-3. These cover in seperate editions: 19th century cards, early candy and gum cards, and tobacco cards. It is a little old, but I haven't been able to get it all straight in my head yet, and I bought them when they were initially offered.<br /><br />Good luck and welcome.<br />Gilbert

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Posted By: <b>andy becker</b><p>...and read and re-read and then read it again. recommended (required) readings... <br />1) scd standard catalog<br />2) lew lipsets book<br />3) all back issues of vcbc<br />4) net 54 old posts...use the search engine<br />...and trae, these are only good for education...do not use as price guides. for prices track auctions. <br />and once you decide the direction of your vintage collection...please feel free to email me direct with any questions (bbe8481070@aol.com)<br />best of luck <br />andy

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>You all are awesome, thank you! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>tbob</b><p>being the parochial and nationalistic nation we have seemed to become in the last 4 years, we might consider "pre-war" to mean prior to the United States' entry in to World War 1 (ignoring the fact WW1 raged through Europe without our involvement for over 3 years) which would mean cards prior to April 1917 and would thus include the popular E 90-1 through E107 caramel cards and T213-2 Coupons.

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>sent me a private message saying, "Watch it, Julie."

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Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>Just to note, in baseball cards, 'Pre-War' is a term generally used to mean before WWII and specifically before the US entry into the war. I was offering the hobby's standard meaning. If others wish to use the term differently or like some wars better than others, there's no law against that.

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Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>Where would the sense of humor in this hobby be without you? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>And here I was thinking all along that pre-war meant before the War between the States. No wonder I could never find any cards to purchase;)<br />