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-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   war_eagle_vintage maybe Battlefields twin? (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=247588)

Yoda 11-28-2017 04:26 PM
Just to add a pinch of intrigue, my '55 Bowman Mantle does not have the tell tale white dots, measures fine, nor any alterations that I can spot, but that doesn't mean something nefarious didn't go down and the card won't grade. I am embarrassed that I bought Earl's story hook line and sinker, but what the hell. I felt like taking a chance, but am so glad I didn't win the 3 Mantles. If the winner has been reading this post, they must be appalled.
Leon, I recall you had some contact with somebody at Ebay about Battlefields some time back. Shouldn't they contacted? This latest egregious example is borderline fraud.

Leon 11-28-2017 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1724588)
Just to add a pinch of intrigue, my '55 Bowman Mantle does not have the tell tale white dots, measures fine, nor any alterations that I can spot, but that doesn't mean something nefarious didn't go down and the card won't grade. I am embarrassed that I bought Earl's story hook line and sinker, but what the hell. I felt like taking a chance, but am so glad I didn't win the 3 Mantles. If the winner has been reading this post, they must be appalled.
Leon, I recall you had some contact with somebody at Ebay about Battlefields some time back. Shouldn't they contacted? This latest egregious example is borderline fraud.
John,
If your card isn't that one from the REA lot it is the only one I am not positive of, of those three. The centering is key. It was hard to tell on yours (pretty dang sure it's the same card) but the other 2 shown have unique, altered centering. There is no way, imo, those 2 aren't the same cards. The bottom of the '53 is absolutely laughable. Folks in the know have been contacted.

bobbyw8469 11-28-2017 09:30 PM
It's almost like printing money...crack out awesome looking SGC "A" cards, and flip them raw for big bucks. The buyers have hopes that the cards will grade high, and unfortunately, that is not the case at all. They will grade "A" again, and the buyers will lose thousands of dollars in value.

murphy8276 11-28-2017 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 (Post 1724677)
It's almost like printing money...crack out awesome looking SGC "A" cards, and flip them raw for big bucks. The buyers have hopes that the cards will grade high, and unfortunately, that is not the case at all. They will grade "A" again, and the buyers will lose thousands of dollars in value.
If PSA catches it and if SGC was correct of course. I am all for battlefield being scum of the earth no doubt, but SGC or PSA get them wrong from time to time too. The likelihood this is the case here is slim though of course. I just wanted to acknowledge that with PSA I have a lot of experience of minsizerq and evid trim cards being later graded especially when I am confident they are not so I continue to submit them. I hope to hell someone who actually trims a card for real isn't getting that same reward with alterations due to rinse and repeat re-submissions.

Yoda 11-29-2017 09:47 AM
I have gone back and examined the Mantle card until I am crossed eyed and of the opinion that it is a different card from the one in the War Eagle scan, the two white dots are clearly not there and the centering is different. Leon, I agree the other two from the REA auction look trimmed at the bottom. Who knows what is going on but this might be the case that blows everything open and Ebay will be forced to take action, says he hopefully.

Batpig 11-29-2017 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1724768)
I have gone back and examined the Mantle card until I am crossed eyed and of the opinion that it is a different card from the one in the War Eagle scan, the two white dots are clearly not there and the centering is different. Leon, I agree the other two from the REA auction look trimmed at the bottom. Who knows what is going on but this might be the case that blows everything open and Ebay will be forced to take action, says he hopefully.
Maybe I missed it, but are you sending it in to PSA/SGC?

Yoda 11-29-2017 07:26 PM
In time, probably yes.

VintageBen 11-29-2017 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1724118)
'55 Bowman Mantle received last week shipped in a Priority Mail envelope rather than the standard USPS first class normally used by Battlefields. Also included was a nice little note signed by one Earl saying he hoped I enjoyed the card as much as he had. The card described by Earl as nrmt is quite nice but the reverse is way o/c, precluding a high grade. War Eagle has no current listings.
If I had to conjecture what is going on, I would offer the following: Carolyn Battle died last year. She was running Battlefields Ebay operations and Earl was her husband. Carol, their daughter, picked up the reigns and then ran the company. The supply of raw cards probably came from Earl who built a large collection over a lifetime. Some were, of course, photo shopped but I
doubt there was much, if any, card alteration. War Eagle, aka Earl, was created to sell the rest of his goodies, which has happened, fetching some big prices. Now perhaps they plan on riding off into the sunset counting their money. I doubt we will hear anything from them in the future. Ebay will weep for their loss of revenue. Of course, this scenario could be completely wrong and they will continue on their sinful ways.

According to her obituary, Her husband's name was Jerry Battles.

cardsnstuff 11-29-2017 08:22 PM
Quote:
55 Bowman Mantle received last week shipped in a Priority Mail envelope
I'm confused if this was the case doesn't this constitute mail fraud; a felony?

murphy8276 12-02-2017 02:37 AM
wareagle listed a "nice" collection of hires rootbeer cards. Any sleuths on these being trimmed? :D

Leon 12-04-2017 08:32 PM
They have over 220 auctions going. Anyone ready to gamble? At least we know the Wheaties box panels are trimmed :)...

https://www.ebay.com/sch/war_eagle_v...om=&rmvSB=true

.

Pat R 12-05-2017 02:34 AM
3 Attachment(s)
His decision to sell the collection he has been building for the past 40 years
must have been a last minute one.

The T206's he just listed

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odk...=T206&_sacat=0

all came from this lot in the last REA auction

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=46221

Attachment 297508
Attachment 297509
Attachment 297510

Sean 12-05-2017 04:08 AM
Great catch Pat. :)

Yoda 12-05-2017 01:21 PM
Pat, great sleuthing. Interesting that the T206's now listed by War Eagle, aka Battlefields, aka, Earl won presumably by the above do not, hmm, include a scan of the reverse, where REA painstakingly detailed the strange markings thereon, which may have been made by an extraterrestrial collector. Who knows?

sflayank 12-07-2017 06:35 AM
battlefield
 
yes war eagle and battlefield are the same person
i just won a lot from them
they broke up lot 1247 from REA
paid 840 for the lot got 2400 on ebay - ebay fees
theyre making a ton
i dont support them...but they certainly know what they are doing

Aquarian Sports Cards 12-07-2017 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflayank (Post 1727207)
i just won a lot from them

i dont support them...
...

murphy8276 12-07-2017 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflayank (Post 1727207)
yes war eagle and battlefield are the same person
i just won a lot from them
they broke up lot 1247 from REA
paid 840 for the lot got 2400 on ebay - ebay fees
theyre making a ton
i dont support them...but they certainly know what they are doing
Can you share what was nefarious about the hires rootbeer ones? What did he hide, besides possibly covering up damage to cards (which is his number one scam). Just wanted to know. Thanks.

sflayank 12-07-2017 09:20 AM
I didnt buy card...ancillary piece from set..cards that were vg looks like he left alone...the exmt cards he calls mint
And maybe photoshops
You can compare the cards in rea to his photos and see for yourself

brianp-beme 12-07-2017 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageBen (Post 1724985)
According to her obituary, Her husband's name was Jerry Battles.
Since it is the South, 'Jerry Earl' is a perfectly acceptable first and middle name combination.

Brian

SMPEP 12-07-2017 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflayank (Post 1727207)
yes war eagle and battlefield are the same person
i just won a lot from them
they broke up lot 1247 from REA
paid 840 for the lot got 2400 on ebay - ebay fees
theyre making a ton
i dont support them...but they certainly know what they are doing
If he's willing to cheat by photoshopping pictures, what's the likelihood that he is paying the IRS for these gains?

Maybe that's the way to nail Al Capone ... oops I mean War Eagle ... oops ... I mean Battlefield.

Cheers,
Patrick

Edwolf1963 12-08-2017 04:02 PM
Other examples have been shown here in this thread, but I thought this one was pretty telling. These Goudey Gehrig’s obviously look to be the same. Seems to be same standard operating procedure – purchase good looking previously noted, documented and/or graded as altered/trimmed cards, crack holders and represent them as mint, near mint, high-grade. All under the guise of prized collection, collecting all these years, hope you love them as much as I do, etc.

REA auction end of October; https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=46631

War Eagle auction ended 11/18;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOU-GEHRIG-...p2047675.l2557

Second Gehrig, War Eagle auction ended 11/18;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOU-GEHRIG-...p2047675.l2557

Quick note, the Hubble and Foxx are currently listed (presumably) from that same REA lot. Interesting, it would appear the Hubble that was initially sold in November (see link below) went to the same bidder (i***i 570) as the second Gehrig listed above. Since relisted - nonpaying, returned?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CARL-HUBBEL...cAAOSwvApaCnbJ

murphy8276 12-08-2017 04:42 PM
This is disgusting. Someone should fry this mofo.

Leon 12-13-2017 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphy8276 (Post 1727633)
This is disgusting. Someone should fry this mofo.
For some reason authorities aren't able (or won't) deal with these kinds of issues very well. It seems not many folks want to chase down these card criminals. I suspect this is the first of a lot of these types of comments in the link below. All we can hope for is bad Karma for the bad people doing this. I truly believe they will have their day and it won't be a good one. You just can't continually commit fraud and not have bad luck, imo.

https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...ms=neutral_365

.

Snapolit1 12-13-2017 08:01 AM
I saw the stack of Wheaties cuts that they were selling and almost got sucked in. God knows what I would have paid for. Very slick looking crappy operation.

Beansballcardblog 12-13-2017 08:50 AM
A sincere "thank you" to all that have called this seller out. A card on my want list showed up today and I recognized that name immediately because of this board.

MikeGarcia 12-13-2017 10:09 AM
awesome listing though
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 (Post 1729093)
I saw the stack of Wheaties cuts that they were selling and almost got sucked in. God knows what I would have paid for. Very slick looking crappy operation.

BUT...someone had put together a really stunning collection though---there are some awesome rarely-seen wheaties boxes in that group---how Battlefield winds up listing them just goes to show us how life ain't fair...


..

Batpig 12-13-2017 10:21 AM
Makes me want to buy and return just to give a neg.

horzverti 12-13-2017 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 (Post 1729106)
A sincere "thank you" to all that have called this seller out. A card on my want list showed up today and I recognized that name immediately because of this board.
It is great to see that the board's member's fraud fighting efforts are paying off. I would also like to say thanks to those who help us navigate around the bad sellers.

VintageBen 12-13-2017 11:33 AM
they've sold two raw Mickey Mantle cards in the past month that fetched more than $10k. :rolleyes:

bobbyw8469 12-13-2017 02:12 PM
...and the winning buyers won't know they've been "stuck" until they submit them for grading.

Jenx34 12-13-2017 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1729066)
For some reason authorities aren't able (or won't) deal with these kinds of issues very well. It seems not many folks want to chase down these card criminals. I suspect this is the first of a lot of these types of comments in the link below. All we can hope for is bad Karma for the bad people doing this. I truly believe they will have their day and it won't be a good one. You just can't continually commit fraud and not have bad luck, imo.

https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...ms=neutral_365

.
Why the hell would someone mark that feedback as neutral?

Jenx34 12-13-2017 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batpig (Post 1729128)
Makes me want to buy and return just to give a neg.
I had similar thoughts. Would be cool if members could unite and win all auctions at one time and either never pay or return them all. The only problem with returning would be having to wait 15 days to get your money back.

NYYFan63 12-17-2017 10:57 AM
I have won two auctions from war_eagle_vintage and was following some of his recent card auctions on eBay. I looked in Friday and saw they were all removed. I inquired with eBay and they informed me there is “potential fraud”. I searched sand found this informative board and decided to join. I have since requested returns of the two cards purchased from this seller and am awaiting his response.

I also had messsged the seller as to why his cards were removed. His response was “he reached his limit.” Ha!

Thank you to all you kind folks for this information.

MikeGarcia 12-17-2017 11:16 AM
Amazed
 
my faith in E-Bay has been restored--amazing .

..

Sean 12-17-2017 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYYFan63 (Post 1730275)
I have won two auctions from war_eagle_vintage and was following some of his recent card auctions on eBay. I looked in Friday and saw they were all removed. I inquired with eBay and they informed me there is “potential fraud”. I searched sand found this informative board and decided to join. I have since requested returns of the two cards purchased from this seller and am awaiting his response.

I also had messsged the seller as to why his cards were removed. His response was “he reached his limit.” Ha!

Thank you to all you kind folks for this information.
Welcome, and nice first post. Too bad you had to deal with this seller to find us.

Yoda 12-17-2017 05:19 PM
As of tonight, War Eagle has one card listed, a '55 Topps RC of 'Killer' Killebrew, one of my favorite cards of one of my favorite players. However, think I shall refrain from bidding. Hmm.

MikeGarcia 12-17-2017 05:29 PM
Gone
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1730361)
As of tonight, War Eagle has one card listed, a '55 Topps RC of 'Killer' Killebrew, one of my favorite cards of one of my favorite players. However, think I shall refrain from bidding. Hmm.
I just looked ---it's gone.

..

NYYFan63 12-17-2017 07:59 PM
Yep - he had > 400 cards that were delisted by eBay. One was a 52 Mantle with a pin hole top center that I was following as well as a near perfect centered 56 Mantle.

Jenx34 12-17-2017 11:11 PM
2 questions/comments...

1. I'm really surprised Ebay told you there was potential fraud. It just doesn't seem Ebay like to reveal that kind of info, or any for that matter. It's kinda nice to hear!

2. How can you tell if a card has been de-listed by Ebay or just pulled from the seller? Is there a way to see that?

Thanks for contributing. I hope you get your money back on your two cards. If you suggest ANY issue with the cards you purchased, be sure to demand the seller pay your return fees. I did when the seller was formerly known as Battlefield and was promptly send a return label. Granted it took the full 15 days to get my refund and all of the cards were re-listed and sold again before I got my money back. But I got it back.

Leon 12-18-2017 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenx34 (Post 1730433)
2 questions/comments...

1. I'm really surprised Ebay told you there was potential fraud. It just doesn't seem Ebay like to reveal that kind of info, or any for that matter. It's kinda nice to hear!

2. How can you tell if a card has been de-listed by Ebay or just pulled from the seller? Is there a way to see that?

Thanks for contributing. I hope you get your money back on your two cards. If you suggest ANY issue with the cards you purchased, be sure to demand the seller pay your return fees. I did when the seller was formerly known as Battlefield and was promptly send a return label. Granted it took the full 15 days to get my refund and all of the cards were re-listed and sold again before I got my money back. But I got it back.
I can't answer for the person you are speaking to but I can say that ebay does have a few people that can make it happen. I am told there were a few other accounts taken down, linked to the same fraudulent seller too.

NYYFan63 12-18-2017 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenx34 (Post 1730433)
2 questions/comments...

1. I'm really surprised Ebay told you there was potential fraud. It just doesn't seem Ebay like to reveal that kind of info, or any for that matter. It's kinda nice to hear!

2. How can you tell if a card has been de-listed by Ebay or just pulled from the seller? Is there a way to see that?

Thanks for contributing. I hope you get your money back on your two cards. If you suggest ANY issue with the cards you purchased, be sure to demand the seller pay your return fees. I did when the seller was formerly known as Battlefield and was promptly send a return label. Granted it took the full 15 days to get my refund and all of the cards were re-listed and sold again before I got my money back. But I got it back.
Maybe I used the wrong term but when I clink on one of his cards that I had "Watched" it indicates The listing "12 digit number" has been removed, or this item is not available" It happened so quickly on Friday, I just assumed they delisted. Last night I was getting the 24 hour notifications of a card's auction soon coming to an end, so I assume ebay did this. If the seller removed, I'm not sure I would still received the notification. Just my two cents...again I could be wrong...

NYYFan63 12-18-2017 06:43 PM
Well war_eagle_vintage accepted my returns of the two Willie Mays cards (1958 & 1960) I purchased from him on eBay. I will update once I have received the funds.

jfkheat 12-19-2017 06:47 AM
Be sure to leave negative feedback once you receive a refund.
James

bobbyw8469 12-19-2017 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYYFan63 (Post 1730707)
Well war_eagle_vintage accepted my returns of the two Willie Mays cards (1958 & 1960) I purchased from him on eBay. I will update once I have received the funds.
Why were they returned?? Did they not look as nice in person?

NYYFan63 12-19-2017 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 (Post 1730834)
Why were they returned?? Did they not look as nice in person?
I am not an expert in determining whether the cards were altered or trimmed, so I did not want to take any chances with someone who is known to have done this in the past. He had a 30-day return policy.

bigfanNY 12-20-2017 08:25 PM
Wow missed this one. I purchased 2 wheaties panels from this seller. Only post I saw was under ebay sales a member posted that a nice batch of wheaties was for sale... is this member somehow connected with this seller? I will update this when cards arrive. I won a Gheringer and Medwick with what looked like full borders.

Snapolit1 12-20-2017 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfanNY (Post 1731377)
Wow missed this one. I purchased 2 wheaties panels from this seller. Only post I saw was under ebay sales a member posted that a nice batch of wheaties was for sale... is this member somehow connected with this seller? I will update this when cards arrive. I won a Gheringer and Medwick with what looked like full borders.
No, that was my post. I was blown away by the selection of Wheaties panels. Then saw they thread here and was immediately sorry I had referenced someone else's auction, and I deleted my post.

bigfanNY 12-20-2017 10:01 PM
Lol I to was blown away by Wheaties selection. I have been looking for a Gehringer with a full border for awhile to display with my mini. The Medwick goes along with my NJ ballplayers collection.

Leon 12-26-2017 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfanNY (Post 1731404)
Lol I to was blown away by Wheaties selection. I have been looking for a Gehringer with a full border for awhile to display with my mini. The Medwick goes along with my NJ ballplayers collection.
Well, they didn't have to lie about them being trimmed!!!

bigfanNY 12-26-2017 11:11 PM
Got my 2 wheaties today they both have full borders no pinholes Gherringer is very nice Medwick has a back stamp from a kid in iowa.. but is fine with me .. BUT he should have let me know and will get a negative for that.
J


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