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What makes a great show?
As a fledgling promoter this is a very interesting and important topic to me.
Show attendees: What gets you through the door? Is it autograph guests; dealers you know; dealers with a national reputation; door prizes; free admission? Dealers: what attracts you to a show? Location; an admission charge; low booth rates; autograph guests; good customer service? I'd love to hear thoughts from both sides of the table as my answers may be different. Part of the reason we are doing our show is a reaction to numerous unsatisfying show experiences as a dealer. I can correct the things that bothered me, but I can't do anything about things I never thought of! |
Something that I like: space.
Being able to easily maneuver through the aisles is a big plus. |
I wish I had the time and energy to type the long-winded response that this question requires. At the end of the day, the majority of attendees want quality material at rock bottom prices, while dealers want to make enough of a profit to make setting up worth while. I can't say I blame either, but the difference between the two is what suppresses turnout on both sides of the tables. From what I've seen, it's getting harder for dealers to buy good stuff cheap enough to keep prices as low as buyers want. We live in a world where anyone who walks into a commercial setting can take out their phone and find "it" cheaper somewhere else.
That said, as a promotor of two shows/year myself, I'd also love to hear what input people have. |
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As a collector if there is good material I will come back. I like to see a good variety. Prewar, postwar, and modern. I'm not as concerned with door prizes or autograph guests but they will probably help attract other customers. I don't have a problem paying an admission as long as there's some good stuff inside.
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+1 Jesse.
I want quality and variety. With that comes a certain price tag, but as long as the prices are reasonable and "in line" I am good with that. Don't necessarily need a player to do a signing. There's usually a price for that and it may carry over to an admission fee to attend the card show. Rather spend the money on cards. |
Good lighting.
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shows
1. location - I live in the boonies, so the nearest show is 60 miles away, and most of the shows that I attend are 70 to 180 miles away.
2. parking 3. space - I have gone to shows where it is impossible to get to the dealers tables. The aisles are about 4' wide and if a couple of customers are at the tables, the aisles and the tables are blocked. I have tried to get to a dealers table 6-8 times and I couldn't get close enough to see any cards. 4. The attitude of the dealers. 5. A variety of dealers. There is one local show that is mostly newer stuff, and another that seems to mainly have 50's and 60's cards. 6. Door prizes for the customers are nice, but they can be counter productive. The customers hand around for a long time hoping to get a prize, but they don't buy anything. 7. Free pizza or donuts for the dealers is nice. 8. As a customer, any time I can add a card to my personal collection, it is a good show. As a dealer, as long as I can sell enough to pay my expenses and maybe pick up a couple of cards for my PC, then I am happy. If I make a profit, then that is even better. I have set up at local shows where I didn't make enough money to cover a $35 table fee. |
More coming later
I'll be adding to this as I think about this
Space is a double edged sword -- I like to provide space for the dealers and customers yet,, if the aisles or the tables appear crowded then there is a sense of urgency and people want to see what you have for sale. Back in the day when I worked for Beckett, there was at least one nice local dealer who knew me and would chat with me even when we had our restrictions on what we could buy His reasoning was if I was in front of his table then there was a reason for that and he would usually sell a ton of stuff whilst I was there. As a promoter, I like to have a big enough space where people have room but not bowling alley lanes on both sides I agree with the "freebies" for the dealers and while I don't do that every show we do that at our synagogue show with bagels and cream cheese for the dealers and I bring or have bagels brought 3-4 times a year at the monthly show I do. Pizza can be trickier because you do have to ensure that if there happens to be a vegetarian among those you order either a cheese or a veggie pizza I charge $1 admission and that is really for 2 reasons, one to let people feel they have some skin in the game and the 2nd is for a head count. However, we did last year and probably will this year -- do our December show as free admission as a thank you to our customers. Our synagogue show is a bit different but our regular monthly show has either auto guests or an hourly door prize. There always needs to be something to bring in customers. |
I think it's really very simple: A card show with 50 tables is better than a card show with 30 tables. The more dealers you get, the better the show will be. I can put up with crowds, admission fees, rudeness, high prices, etc. But I'm not going to be happy if I drive 50 miles and it takes me 15 minutes to see all the stuff at the show.
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I think it depends what is on the tables. When I Have Roland from Louisiana or Jerry from Richardson or Matt from Austin or Leon from DFW, Roger from Oklahoma. With those five named dealers I can guarantee 20+ excellent tables pretty easily and have a good show for collectors. There are plenty of other good dealers as well who set up in the DFW area so I don't think one can always just say 30 tables is far worse than 50.
I do believe 100 plus tables pretty much guarantees a great show for collectors to find what they need Rich |
Interesting. I don't care too much about autographs, so some free autos or a slate of guys on stage isn't a biggie for me. Having one of the major authenticators there to accept cards is pretty cool, but realize that can't be done everywhere.
Some refreshment stand is nice. I don't like all the haggling that takes place, where cards bear more than one price, but I guess that will never change. "Book value" is always some random number that doesn't seem to have any connection to the condition of the card. I'd say most friendly informed dealers. At White Plains I met some creep who mimicked me when I told him "Just looking . . .." Isn't that what everyone's doing? I probably spent more $ on cards in the last year than he has in his life and he treated me like some bum who stumbled in off the street. Having people from the major auction houses showing some upcoming cool items is also nice. How about a quiet area for spouses and friends who aren't interested to hang out in comfort for a few hours and read a book? |
OK keep it coming.
A lot of this stuff is things we've thought of, but there's a nice smattering of stuff we hadn't considered. Dealers, haven't heard much from you guys yet! |
Outside the Box
Attractive ladies, alcohol, great food...and great cards.
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OK putting on my dealer hat here
What I want to see from the promoter is an good effort in getting the word out If they do the work than most of the rest fits into line. And as a dealer, it's my job, especially if I sell something slightly outside the norm for a sports card show (Racing items, McFarlane/Starting Lineups, etc.) to get the word out to those collectors. There have been many threads on many boards about what dealers should do at a show but as a promoter -- your job is to ensure the dealers have the best cards they can have for sale Rich |
It's also my job as a dealer to get the word out as you want to protect yourself as well. I know several dealers at my show have their own email or postcard list they send to their collectors
Rich |
I don't believe bigger is always better when it comes to shows. Where I live, in the San Francisco Bay Area, there are big shows put on by Tristar at the Cow Palace, and small shows put on by Mark McRae in San Leandro. I always enjoy Mark's shows much more — it's not even close. The Cow Palace shows are filled with modern junk, and most of the vintage stuff is way overpriced. Yet I consistently walk out of Mark's shows with all sorts of great vintage treasures and bargains. Also, the atmosphere between the two is like night and day. The Cow Palace is impersonal and sterile, while the smaller and more intimate setting in San Leandro creates a warm and friendly environment. Mark's shows remind me of the wonderful Orange County monthly card shows in the 1970s, and they give me hope that there's still a place for shows in a world dominated by the internet.
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Personally, I use shows as a "one stop shop" for my collecting need. My show routine is usually the same every time:
1. Consign a couple items that I don't want to carry around 2. Drop off an order with PSA (again, so I don't have to carry it around) 3. Look around the dealers and go bargain hunting 4. Look for dealers with cheap 1960's and 1970's Vg-Ex commons to complete sets If you have all four of those components and are within 100 miles of New Jersey, I will be there! |
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To get those good dealers with the "good stuff"---you'll need to assure them you're going to get the word out. The good stuff costs. Any, and I mean ANY, unreasonable expectations that the dealer must offer his good stuff at rock bottom prices is downright stupid. I understand that prices for the good stuff have spiked to dizzying heights, in some instances. That's why we have VCP, eBay, and our own big mouth to say, "yes, I'll buy it" or "no thanks, that's just too high for me." For most of the cherished stuff I still have in my collection, I paid at the high or set some record for that item. At the very least, I didn't haggle beyond the first question. However, since I speak from 25 - 30 years ago, that's another thing, monetarily. Regardless, the same modus operandi works the best today; to wit, if you want a good card, you had better prepare to pay a good price. Otherwise, after a few years, you shan't have much to show for all your hunting, save for a few centered lesser condition graded cards. Naturally, I have been speaking from the collector's point of view. Is there anyone willing to share what they as a dealer of "good stuff" want from a show promoter, in order to load up their merchandise, travel to your show, set up, pay hotel and food bills, plus table fees of course, and be there for collectors to look and hopefully buy their wares? ---Brian Powell |
Try to ensure that you only allot tables to first class, major league dealers with solid reputations known throughout the hobby. There are many wannabes' out there who think it would be cool to play dealer for a weekend and bring in nothing but crap, a total waste of everybody's time. Also, if you could get the
grading companies to come and at least take submissions it would draw more attendees, I think. Good luck with your endeavors! |
As a collector:
everything that has been said has been right on. I'll add that KNOWLEDGEABLE dealers make a heck of a difference as well. I prefer to talk to dealer/collectors. I understand the need, yes NEED, for the flippers and the sellers of sealed wax boxes that retail for more than a new car. They are there to help promote the FUTURE of the hobby. I might not get all the hype around it but it is what will fuel the younger generations of collectors, whether I get it or not. I don't get to make it to that many shows that I don't set up at. If I can't find someone to talk sports/card history or it is overstuffed with Auto'd Jerseys and mass produced pennants, I make a round or two and bail. I don't want to sound like a collecting snob. Far from it. I collect stuff from all sports and all years. Prewar lacrosse to modern Astros and everything in between. As a dealer: I grew up in the show promoting business. You name it, I've seen it. Discounts on multiple tables/booths Arrange the room so that the autograph lines don't block dealer tables Some sort of breakfast? Not needed but much appreciated (Thanks Rich) Promote! Promote! Promote! Set up a mailing list at the entrance. This will be your best resource. Ask other dealers that will be attending your show if they could contact people on their lists as well. Many forums have event calendars. Facebook, Twitter and the likes will help as well. Lighting is important. Check with the hotel/venue to see if YOU can make any improvements. A little out there: IF it is a multi day show you might be able to get the hotel, if applicable, to swing a room gratis for a hospitality suite for the dealers to mingle after the show. I would believe the hotel would be more open to this if you could guarantee them X many rooms will be occupied during your show. |
It's not as easy you think with grading companies to get them to come.
I have open invites to various Dallas based companies to set up and I get them infrequently. And Usually, if I think it would be a draw to have them, we give them or reduced the tables rate so they can promote their appearance on their web sites and via their emails. I'm sure each one has different variables as reasons to attend As for getting the word out - I did mention that was the promoter's job along the way As for "wannabe" dealers -- some of them may not have much cards but use their tables to buy -- I don't have a problem with letting people in to sell cards as you never know. I had a person call me earlier this year -- turned out he was an Iraq war vet and had a complete Desert Shield set (The 1991 Topps version) and a bunch of extra singles and he walked out with more than 2K. But if you saw his display, you never would have thought he had that much good stuff. Sometimes, it's better to be surprised and as a promoter, one of my jobs is to ensure the tables get sold/filled. Rich |
Some collectors want only dealers with vintage, some collectors want only shiny stuff, etc,... Just get as many dealers as you can to satisfy everyone's interests.
A good many Autograph guests from a variety of sports. But, have the area organized and maybe somewhat away from the dealer tables. But, minimize all the over abundant of announcements that so and so is only appearing for another hour and now accepting tickets 1 to 50, etc,... A good food area with reasonable prices and plenty of tables/chairs. Long show hours on at least one day (ie Fri 3 pm - 8 pm) Reasonable admission fees. Free and plenty of parking. A table of flyers with upcoming shows, auctions, etc,... |
At least one day with extended hours. Yes, great idea. Def. good for those where work is not cooperating.
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A dealer section that features a cross section of vintage and modern and all price points to maximize the buyer's options. An autograph guest or two that isn't ridiculously expensive. (Darryl Strawberry just signed nearby for $30, but I saw at another place 60 miles away it was $60, something tells me the dealer overcharged the 2nd signing)
But mostly, what others have said, the logistics stuff (parking, food, crowd flow) are handled and well thought out. Man, really it all comes down to having good dealers and good stuff at a good venue that is well planned. |
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Location as in table placement at shows can be important at Mall shows, not so much at big shows like Fanatics and the Nationals. People will find you there regardless of where you are. I don't mind paying more for booth space at a good show, but some shows that squeeze as many tables into a tiny space just to max profits to subsidize autograph guest costs irritate me greatly. I won't name the show, but there is one that I set up at that you don't have room for backup at all. For that reason I am considering dropping that one from my schedule. |
I think it is a mistake only looking for "serious" dealers. As long as the "weekend warrior" dealers are going to bring something interesting, even if it is just a bunch of seventies stuff... I say they should be welcome. As a collector that goes to the big shows, I've already met / seen all the dealers that do the Valley Forge Show & White Plains. Sometimes the "part time" dealers are much more interested in selling. Often other dealers are pleased as well, as they will buy wholesale from them at the end of the show.
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From a Buyer:
I want a variety of Vintage stuff (older than 1970). I want sellers that are willing to sell!!! I HATE tables where the people have prices double what you can get on EBAY or Auction sites, that REFUSE to budge on the price. They are there as a Museum showcase and NOT to sell. I understand they want to make money, but if you are going to have a booth at a sale, SELL! |
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Also, as an attendee, autograph guests are sometimes a draw. I'd like to meet an unusual guest such as announcer or ESPN personality once in a while. |
As collectors only, and bottom-feeding cheapskates at that...
A show should be: Well advertised, well in advance. We realize print advertising can be expensive, but it costs nothing to notify collector websites and forums. Accessible by a reasonably short drive, with decent parking. A pleasant temperature in the venue. Most shows we've been to have been 130 degrees inside with 50% carbon dioxide. Free or nominal admission. Anything else is a pig in a poke. Vendors with a wide variety of stuff -- including non-card sports memorabilia -- presumably make a show attractive to a wider variety and thereby larger number of customers. Outside your control, really, but three things regarding vendors: 1) a decent attitude -- don't ignore customers, don't act condescending, don't give a hard-sell. 2) if a vendor doesn't have prices marked, we usually won't even stop at his table to look or ask. 3) if a vendor has only ludicrously, unrealistically high prices marked, we won't even stop at his table to look or haggle. Free autograph signings can draw us in, but we realize that the expense of getting former stars to appear makes free autos unrealistic for small shows. If you offer free signings, make it clear in your advertising that they're free. Just stating that this guy or these guys are signing leaves everyone to assume it'll be 50 or 100 bucks a sig. Also outside your control: a decent attitude on the part of anybody signing. |
Dealer
As a dealer, I come to the shows to sell. I sometimes price my cards a little high because I have found out that if I price a card at $30, someone will offer $15. If I price that same card at $15, someone will offer $7. So, I mark it up a little so I can work with customers and accept their offers. I don't get offended by offers, because when someone makes an offer, it shows they are interested in the card and we now have a starting point for negotiations.
Also, in regard to dealers bringing junk to the shows - we have one local show that is a great junk show. When I buy collections, I bring all of the junk and blow it out at this show. People know that I will show up with tons of 1990's inserts, tons of 5 cent and 10 cent 1980's star cards, and loads of junk commons. I blow them out and accept low offers just so I don't have to haul the junk back home and I do very well with them because of the large quantities. There are other shows in the area where people don't seem to be interested in buying the junk, so I bring better cards to those shows. I also would like to see the show promoters do their best to promote the show. Put the show in the Beckett show calendar, in SCD, Craigslist, local internet sites, and a small ad in the sports section of the local newspaper. Develop an email list of customers and dealers by have them sign up when they enter the show. |
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How about a quiet area for spouses and friends who aren't interested to hang out in comfort for a few hours and read a book?[/QUOTE]
A VERY GOOD SUGGESTION. PERHAPS THE REFRESHMENT AREA COULD HAVE AN EXTENDED AREA FOR THE DISINTERESTED. ---Brian Powell |
I'll keep my response short and to-the-point:
1) Fresh material at fair (ebay) prices. So many of the shows I attend are populated by museum dealers with the same inventory I saw 3 years ago, with pricing that appears to be circa 1989, or at least twice the price of what the cards can be purchased for online. Everybody uses eBay these days as the market price. Please don't pretend that doesn't apply to you. |
Lots of good suggestions. In addition, I think vintage dealers should attempt to bring some items that are not regularly available on eBay.
At the last Chantilly show, I was looking for a Berra rookie card. I found several but all were priced well in excess of eBay prices so I passed. I understand. Dealers have travel expenses, hotels, table fees, meals on the road, so they simply can't compete with internet sales. On the other hand, I found a dealer selling 1956 Topps pins which appear on eBay but far less frequently. I bought the Berra pin and was happy to get it at retail. |
1. Organization. Organization. Organization. A well run show is just a joy to attend. Collectors Showcase America when Marco Rol ran the show, was one of the best in the business.
2. A large enough venue for the type of show. There is a promoter who shall remain nameless who is notorious for bringing in large groups of autograph guests and the room is two sizes too small. Good lighting. 3. A PA system that works and can be heard throughout the venue. Sans a decent PA system, signage that shows who is signing where and what current ticket numbers are being accepted. 4. Knowledgeable staff. 5. Separate cash and credit lines which are well staffed. More than two credit authorization machines. 6. I expect to pay admission (within reason). If admission is high, there should be a reason as to why I should attend (Koufax, Ryan, Brett, Harper, Trout, Stan Lee). 7. Show goers who bathe regularly. See #2. Out of the promoters control, but always pleasant especially in tight quarters. 8. For paid signings, solid autograph guests. Don't keep running the same stable of guests in and out, in and out. Free guests are always nice. Local talent is always a plus. Bringing some of the top minor leaguers in from the nearby teams would be kind of neat. 9. Door prizes are never frowned upon. 10. An area to sit and take a break. For most promoters this is called the parking lot. 11. Food and drink. Not huge, but nice. Instead of the usual kaka, have a local group serve up some grub. 12. Dealers: Promoters are in the business of selling tables and are likely not going to be too picky about what a dealer is bringing. I have seen jewelry, insurance, covered gutter services (with a working water display) dealers at card shows over the years. My preference is more memorabilia than card dealers and more vintage than new but variety is a good thing. 13. Dealers who price their cards fairly. I once asked a dealer why he had an 8 price on a slabbed 7 card. He replied "It would regrade as an 8." I was about to reply with "well than walk your arse over to the PSA booth and resubmit the card" but I just thanked him and walked away. I don't expect dealers to give cards away, a little wiggle room on full book is all that I expect. |
Parking
Free or cheap parking or at very least an event discount for parking that is independent of "VIP" ticket prices.
A designated table, perhaps in the food court area, where people who want to swap cards can gather and talk. Richard D |
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Guys there's lots of great stuff in this thread. Obviously it's impossible to implement it all but since I am approaching this from the perspective of a dealer who has been dissatisfied, I've been at least pretty good about trying to rectify the things that have bugged me. Clearly some of those things have bothered you as well. I'd love for you to head over to the facebook page for the show and share these (and other) thoughts there where I can respond without fear of abusing the hospitality of this forum. The name of the page is absolutely literal and should be easy to find. Hopefully I can live up to at least a good chunk of the expectations, that both sides of the table have, for a great show! |
Dean,
What I am sensing from item 1. of your post is that the Chantilly Show (CSA) is no longer a joy to attend because it has not been well run since Marco Rol's departure. I can only speak as a collector who has not missed a Chantilly Shoe (as best as I can remember) for many years. But, I have not sensed any significant change and/or decline in the Show post Marco. Actually, I feel there have been some improvements recently - e.g., a few more vintage dealers, a TPG accepting subs, and more auction houses present (REA, LOTG, Sterling, etc.). Why do you feel as you do - are you speaking from a dealer's perspective? Val |
12. Dealers: Promoters are in the business of selling tables and are likely not going to be too picky about what a dealer is bringing. I have seen jewelry, insurance, covered gutter services (with a working water display) dealers at card shows over the years. My preference is more memorabilia than card dealers and more vintage than new but variety is a good thing.
I have had a couple of vendors tell me they would be bringing jewelry and I always advise this is the wrong crowd for that. But as noted, one of my jobs in promoting is to sell tables and if not full, then their wares are fine. As a side note, my sister in law does sell jewelry on the side and if she wants a table, she is getting one, no questions asked :) Rich |
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If I take the trouble as a consumer to go to a card show and there are things like gutter helmet dealers I'm not going to be happy. I will be less likely to attend the show in the future. I would probably feel similarly as a dealer if I was next to gutter-guy. So in the interest of picking up one short-term buck in table rent I may be throwing away more money in future. This isn't Pollyanna-ish "I want to help people." It's good business. I get into this argument a lot with respect to lots of companies I have dealt with both in and out of the sports collectible arena. If a company obviously values my time and the revenue I represent they are more likely to continue receiving it, and capture more and more of it. If a company merely views me as a dollar sign in the moment and is willing to do anything to get that dollar right now, that can leave a bad taste in my mouth. It's why our booth rates are so low this first time out. It's why we have pledged to grandfather all dealers from this first show at the first time rate in perpetuity if they continue to do the show. I want to build relationships with my dealers and my show attendees, so that they look forward to doing business with me as opposed to it being a necessary evil! |
I agree with Val. The Chantilly show hasn't changed much since Marco used to run it. It is a fantastic show !!!
Years ago, there was a dealer in New York State that used to have a show that dealers could only sell pre-1975 cards and/or memorabilia. I'm not sure how that show did, but that was a unique concept. |
[QUOTE=biohazard;1560036]1. 11. Food and drink. Not huge, but nice. Instead of the usual kaka, have a local group serve up some grub.
Not every place allows you to do so. Our local hotel which we use forbids us to have any food or drink for sale. it was one of the few requirements of the hotel for us to follow and an easy one at that. Rich |
Are there any anchor dealers, sort of like the shopping mall business model of the 1980s/1990s. You get 2 or 3 anchor tenants: Macys, JC Penney, Dillards, and then build around it?
Are there a handful of dealers that sort of cover modern, vintage and memorabilia that you can give free space to, and then they would attract better dealers around them and customers, because people would know the show is for real? Again, I don't know anything, but I sort of see this and think that some sort of customer/dealer tiering should be out there, like an Uber rating of sorts, so people can sort of suss out the dealers and customers without having to re-start every show. |
Price stickers just clutter up the item that I want to look at. IMO So for cards not being priced, it's not a big deal to me. It's really simple to ask the price of an item. Now I have a starting point for negotiations, if we can't come to a deal then I just move on. I don't mind paying a little bit higher than ebay prices at a show. I have the item in hand and I know exactly what I am getting. No need to worry about shipping, lost in the mail, condition, returns, etc.
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