#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />How tough is the '33 Goudey Benny Bengough #1 in the set. Is this card merely a condition rarity. Or is it truly difficult to find. Any thoughts on this.<br /><br />Peter

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Justin</b><p>As far as I know it's just condition sensitive. I have seen them frequently on ebay. Plus it has a great image, so I guess that would add to its popularity.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Not that tough in lower grades, very tough Ex or better. It's a condition rarity.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Rand</b><p>The Bengough is very tough in 6, 7, 8. A 6 will cost about $2000, 7 about $8000, 8 over $15000...there is 1 psa 9....at least $100,000k. If you check the pop reports you will see the top sets on the Registry have the majority of the cards.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>condition sensitive,is not seem hard to find but even low grades seem to sell for a lot of $$$.(kind of like "52 topps pafko #1)

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Bobby Binder</b><p>I think the condition is due to kids putting the cards in order then wrapping them with a rubber band. This caused the top and bottom cards to get damaged so you almost always see the first and last cards of a set bringing a premium.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Bobby,<br /><br />If what you said is true, then in the higher grades you would expect the Benny Bengough to bring a premium. However, according to Dennis, in lower grades the Benny Bengough still brings in a price in excess of the price of a common. Have you found that to be true.<br /><br />Now would you say that is unexpected. If the price is high in lower grades is there any particular reason for this or possibly people are just simply paying too much.<br /><br />Peter

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>This card and Pafko irk me to no end because, as mentioned, the card is not hard to find, just hard to find in high grades. There is no reason to pay a premium for either card in grades below Ex. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Bobby Binder</b><p>Peter,<br /><br />I think because the card in high grade sell for so much more then others you get the trickle effect on the lower grades. Everyone wants to say they own the $100K card when in reality they don't.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>I think cards that are scarce in high grade may carry a mystique of scarcity that carries over to lower grades, even though they may not actually be particularly scarce in the lower grades.<br /><br />1933 Goudey #1 Bengough is probably scarce in high grade because it is the #1 card in the set and was thus subject to more abuse, and also because it is part of the low number series of 48 cards that were printed on the first two production sheets (card #'s 1-40 and 45-52), where lower quality paper stock was used.<br /><br />Here are PSA population stats in each grade for the Bengough card, compared with averages for the low numbers as a group and for the set as a whole:<br /><br />PSA 1-2: Bengough = 93 ..... Avg low number = 26 ..... Avg all cards = 22<br />PSA 3-4: Bengough = 82 ..... Avg low number = 50 ..... Avg all cards = 51<br />PSA 5: Bengough = 13 ....... Avg low number = 23 ..... Avg all cards = 29<br />PSA 6: Bengough = 11 ....... Avg low number = 15 ..... Avg all cards = 21<br />PSA 7: Bengough = 15 ....... Avg low number = 15 ..... Avg all cards = 19<br />PSA 8: Bengough = 7 ........ Avg low number = 10 ..... Avg all cards = 14<br />PSA 9: Bengough = 1 ........ Avg low number = 0.4 .... Avg all cards = 0.9<br /><br />total: Bengough = 234 ...... Avg low number = 143 .... Avg all cards = 163<br /><br />I suspect that there are more graded Bengoughs than would be expected based on its true scarcity alone, because the card is relatively more valuable and thus more likely to get slabbed. This is apparently true even in the lower grades. In any case, it is clear that the card is not scarce in grades below PSA 5.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Eric,<br /><br />Thanks for the data. I've been buying mostly low grade but nice looking '33 Goudey Hall of Famers, I was thinking about picking up a Benny Bengough soon. But right now, I'll probably wait on card #1.<br /><br />Peter

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Shane Leonard</b><p>Peter,<br />Exactly what Barry said. The condition is what makes this card a difficult card. <br />

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>If you want a cheap filler, get the Canadian version. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Jay,<br /><br />The Benny Bengough I'm looking at has two pinholes in the top border. Other than the pinholes, it is overall in excellent condition. The dealer is asking for $160, do you think that's in the ballpark. Right now, I'm thinking I'll wait for a better card.<br /><br />Peter

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Acquired this one for only $40 back in 1991 at the Willow Grove Show.<br /><br />Those were the days.....<br /><br />TED Z <br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/bbengough.jpg">

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />That's a gorgeous scan of Benny, I suppose back in those days you didn't have to worry about trimming.<br /><br />Peter

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Steve M.</b><p>to SF for you.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Bobby Binder</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />I am amazed by your memory. You have so many cards and you know exactly where, when and how much. That to me is a gift that I know only a few people have.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Steve,<br /><br />Thanks. Check your e-mail.<br /><br />Peter

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>I think that all that is said above is correct, but not complete. <br /><br />The answer is that it DOES carry over to lower grades.<br /><br />The top of the pile getting the most wear theory is sound. True. Folks who've seen piles and piles of Goudey cards are well familiar with how the corners and edges wear away... we've seen Goudeys that were almost round. Lots of wear. Some Goudeys were lost to the WW2 paper drives. Some mom threw away. Some were saved. Some of the saved ones were quite worn. But the truth is that some of the worn ones were thrown away. And the card most likely to get really worn and pitched is that one with Benny's great catcher's pose. I think if all of us brought all of our Goudey cards to some huge building, and spread our cards out by number, we'd collectively have fewer of Benny than many of the others. I think his print numbers were the same, just that some of the really worn ones were trashed.<br /><br />Frank.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>I'm blessed with a great memory....but, I also attribute this to mathematical mind. I amaze myself<br />with my ability with numbers. It must be in our genes, because my 21-year old Grandson is just as<br /> good with mathematics and sports-related memories, if not better.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />TED Z

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Peter, trimming was already a major concern by late 80s when Copeland was paying huge premiums for "mint" cards. Being very active in that hobby back then buying and selling, I never gave trimming much thought until someone came to my table asking if I had any t206s that were oversized. I didn't but asked him why he wanted them. He said he could get huge money for them from a dealer who would trim them down to "normal" size and then sell them to Copeland. That's when the truly dark side of the hobby became focused him brain.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>John G</b><p>I picked up a Bengough a month or 2 ago in PSA4. I had to shell out over 400.00 for it. The 4's had been bringing that on Feebay...heck the 1's and 2's bring some strong money too.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>What do PSA 1's and 2's sell for on E-bay.<br /><br />Peter

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>Don't forget that I have one for you and will bring it to San Francisco. You're holding the 53 Berra for me, right?<br /><br />By the way should we bump the SF Dinner thread up to see where we are?<br /><br />

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Steve,<br /><br />I'll bring both the '53 Berra and a '53 Jackie Robinson with me just in case your interested. We're still in the early part of May, I'll bump up the dinner thread soon.<br /><br />Peter

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Steve,<br /><br />Are you still coming to SF on June 30, 2007.<br /><br />Peter <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>Yep.<br /><br />I have the Bengough all packed up. Dinner still on?<br /><br />If it's just you and me I would like the wives to join us.<br /><br />Steve

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>ebrehm</b><p>Why is this conversation taking place on a public forum? You really don't need to share these personal details with the rest of the world.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>How else could Peter discuss with Steve an upcoming dinner without resurrecting a month old thread about an obscure card in the 33 Goudey set? Give the guy a break!

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>ebrehm</b><p>Well, okay, just this once.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Barry, if there was ever a thread which required a Seinfeld comment this would be the one.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>I'm speechless <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>That's one thing Jerry never was, he was never speechless. He may have stuck his foot in his mouth often but he was never speechless. Come on Steve, let's rally the troops for the SF dinner. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>Oops, my mistake -- I misunderstood the context of your conversation. I didn't realize you were talking about the SF dinner, which is entirely appropriate to discuss here. Sorry about that. Carry on, fellas.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>Eric and I have exchanged private emails. He's A+++ in my book.

#1 Benny Bengough
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Wasn't paying attention to this thread, just realized Jeff asked me something yesterday.<br /><br />It was Elaine who said "I am speechless...I am without speech." I think it was in reference to George's impending nuptials with Susan, but I may be wrong.