Incredible eBay find that never materialized (newly discovered info on 6/26!!!)
 

This happened a little while ago, and I never planned to post about it here, but after being encouraged by a fellow board member, I've decided to go ahead and share my story.

About a month ago, I spotted a dream card of mine on eBay for a price that I couldn't believe. A 1907 Dietsche postcard Cobb Batting PSA 2.5 for $1200. What luck, I thought to myself, as I purchased and paid for it via a Buy-It-Now listing. About 20 minutes later, I even got a shipping notice and a tracking number! I was excited beyond belief!

It was only 10 minutes later that reality struck and the seller cancelled the sale. I asked the seller why my order was cancelled, and the reply was that their kids jumped on and damaged both the PSA case, as well as the card itself in the process.

Of course I didn't believe a word of it, and had some choice words for the seller. Needless to say, I left negative feedback and just decided to move on, chalking it up to bad luck.

In my opinion, what happened was that someone contacted the seller immediately after I made the purchase and offered considerably more. After all, the card is probably worth north of $3000. Maybe even $4000. No matter - it's the seller's job to research and price the item accordingly.

This is why I'd like for everyone here to know that the seller, maxcollector69, is very dishonest. I do hope they are not a member of Net54. I'm sure the dishonest buyer will also not let themselves be known.

This also goes to show that outing an eBay listing that recently ended is a very bad idea. There are lots of greedy a-holes out there that will try their best to snatch that great deal away from you. As in my case, they sometimes succeed.

Link to the original listing, which sold on 5/12/18
https://www.ebay.com/itm/253618997568

6/26/18 UPDATE - the card was relisted on eBay by showpiecessports for $5995. Linked below.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/123214423640

Tough break on the card. I'll have to take your word that it's worth that much, because I'm looking on VCP and I don't see it being worth $4,000+.

This same thing happened a few years ago with a T206 Lenox and an a__hole seller on eBay. The seller had a store in Texas, I think it was called Battersbox.

I'm sorry to hear that you lost out on your card. I hate it when a third party jumps in and messes up a deal.

A very recent REA sale of an SGC 20 with heavy creasing went for $3300.

And PWCC had a SGC 40 sale for $2,500 recently. The prices are all over the place on the card. But yes, someone shouldn't have messed with your auction.

Agreed, but I do think that the market has shifted a bit on this card in the 3 short months between those 2 comps.

It seems to be taking a similar road as the '25 Exhibits Gehrig - becoming more accepted in the hobby as a rookie card (along with the fielding pose).

Did the crease look like it had been caused by kids jumping on it?

They are 2 completely different cards. The REA sale happened before this card was offered for sale.

even worse when you find it was a friend (former) and N54 member (current) who contacted the seller

A PSA Authentic sold in May REA's auction for $4200. I just paid $2k for an SGC 10... At any rate, that is not cool.... I'm sorry the seller did that, he screwed up, but that should be his loss and not yours. I won't be buying anything from him, so thank you for letting me know.

:)

Under no circumstances should anyone ever store graded cards on top of trampolines. However, raw is okay.

Brian

I'm sorry to hear that you went through something similar, especially since it was a (former) friend of yours. If you don't mind, I'd like to know who this N54 member is via PM.

Bad seller doesn't seem to be selling anything right now...

Had this happen a couple of times
 

The worst at a Robert Morris show in Pittsburgh - I was a dealer - a guy walked up with a hell of a collection - mostly 1920's-1940's - Ruth's, Gerhig's, a few key autographs, postcards, etc. While I was negotiating a deal with the guy, a dealer set up across from me - Tony (I believe from a company named Superior sports - older guy back then - short, Skinny, black hair - very into trophies and memorabilia) walks over to my table and says to the guy "don't make a deal with him (me) until you talk to me". It was as close as I've ever come to jumping across my table and hitting someone. He ended up stealing the deal from me. Felt like hitting him the rest of the show - certainly shared w few choice words. Gets my blood boiling just remembering it. As it happened there was a small bit of Karma in the room and when Tony was packing up -he dropped and broke one of his trophies - couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!

Sorry this happened to you op.

A good rule of thumb is never buy from a guy who sneaks a 69 in their eBay handle.

A PSA 4 sold for $5,760 on Heritage in February.

Similar thing happened to me. I was told the next day that the card sold on their website minutes before I made the purchase on ebay and paid right away. I still hold a bit of a grudge with the seller because I haven't come across another card since. That card was a T205 Collins Yellow Elephant.
http://www.comicplace.com/net54/yellowele.jpg

I've been on both sides of this one, and you just can't put a price on integrity. I've left money on the table before because I've previously agreed to sell something for less, and a bigger offer came in. I once had a Net54 seller yank a deal out from under me under similar circumstances, and I will never deal with that seller again. There are just too many good sellers out there.

Deans cards has done it at least once to me as well. If so.eone pays he stupid price he wonders why. I wouldn't pee on him if he was on fire, and debated legal action. He sold th e card for quite a bit more, therfore damages could have been measured

sorry to hear that happened to you but is that card really a $3k card??? It seems like only a couple years ago I bought a PSA 4 off ebay for UNDER $1K

thats ridiculous!

Its a new game for Cobb postcards including Dietsche.

Not nearly on par with the OPs experience....but just a recent "funny excuse" story. Last week I won an early 70's Pro Bowl pennant that I didn't need...but bidding was at $0.99 in the closing seconds so I said what the heck. I won the thing for $1.25.

A couple days later...tragedy struck. I get a message from the seller stating that just as he was packaging my pennant for shipment, his mother dropped a glass of water shattering it and spraying my pennant in the process. He was sure I would no longer want it in "that condition" (i.e....wet) and apologized for the inconvenience. I said no...that's fine. I still want it. Haven't received it yet.

LOL. Thanks for the chuckle.

Definitely an excuse to not sell an item that sold for an amount lower than the seller expected.

If a seller is expecting a certain amount, why not just list it as a Buy-It-Now and avoid these types of shenanigans? :confused:

Then again, I bought a BIN and the seller pulled the same crap...

My cat actually did eat one of my cards (a 1952 Topps Feller) that was on ebay. Being that it happened with 6 hours left I only had an unbelievable story that made me look like a flake.

I had a cat years ago that somehow knew what the valuable cards were and if I didn't play with the cat when he wanted to play, I would end up finding teeth marks on those cards. He was kinda like a little brother.

After reading your various posts about issues with receiving pennants I have officially banned pennants and all their felt-like friends from my collection...they just aren't worth the hassle.

Brian (living a cardboard pure life for decades)

This is one of the many reasons I never get even a little bit excited about a purchase until it's in my hands. Easy come, easy go.

Unfortunately true

Yeah...I've had more than my fair share of interesting experiences. But I've had great ones too. I think the size and shape of pennants leads to a lot of issues. People who don't sell them regularly, don't know how to ship them. And there's also no reference material so they don't know what to expect when they sell them. The good definitely outweighs the bad....but the bad is more fun to talk about. ;)

Teething cats and baseball cards are not a good combo. One time I found our Beagle (*RIP) with a Schapira Big Show HOF'er in her mouth. It was in an ultra pro holder with teeth marks but escaped injury itself. That was a close call.

As far as ebay finds, I have had several sales canceled due to board members spouting off about them here, before the cards were shipped. IT sucks.

Guess what??? It seems the sale that never materialized has made itself back on eBay.... different seller, but same holder and it doesn't seem damaged at all. Current asking price is now a bit over $5k....


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F123214423640

Similar things happen to eBay sellers. I had a buyer who won a high priced card from me. Less than an hour after he won the card, he told me that he no longer wanted it because he found it cheaper somewhere else.

Happens all the time with me....block and move on.

No the case on this one was that the OP won the card at a great price, paid and received shipping confirm. Then he suddenly receives an email from the seller ( maxcollector69) saying that the card case and card itself was damaged by his kids and canceled the sale.... this was obviously a lie, he had in fact sold the card for half of what was worth made up the lie, canceled the trade, and obviously sold it for a higher price to the new seller (showpiecesports) who must have contacted him to say he sold it too low and that he would pay more and is now attempting to sell the exact same card in the exact same case, no damage from the kids.... for $5995 (the OP had done buy it now for $1200)....lots of low morals here with these two sellers... maxcollector69 in particular....

I have contacted showpiecessports, and they said they are not consigning this piece for anyone. That means they are almost certainly the buyer.

Does anyone know if showpiecessports is on Net54?

Here a link to the new auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/123214423640

The new seller is now claiming that he got the card in a trade for an expensive autograph, yet he won't tell me who he got it from.

He also claims he knows nothing of cards or Dietsche PCs, yet he has hundreds of graded cards for sale in his eBay store.

I'm now even more certain that showpiecessports is the one who bought the card from maxcollector69.

I won’t be buying from them, ever. Especially since everything is waaaay overpriced. Lol You should let them know that people are boycotting the store due to their actions. Did you message the original seller with the new auction number and ask about condition of the holder?! Wonder what story they are going to come up with.

Is there any way to block sellers on ebay? So i dont see their listings?

I just wrote the seller and requested that they block me from their future auctions. I don't wish to deal with people like this, and don't want to accidentally forget who they are and bid from them.

Oh, and if you're an ebay seller and find this acceptable behavior ... feel free to ban me from bidding on your auctions too. Thanks!

Cheers,
Patrick

Yes, I've sent a message to maxcollector69 with a link to the new auction.

Still waiting to hear back from them, but I don't expect a reply, as they never responded to me again after they sent me the story about how the PSA holder got broken and how the card got damaged.

I've also let the new seller know that their actions in this ordeal won't go unnoticed.

Just a follow up ... I sent a very professional note jsaying that I read about his business practices on Net54 and wished to be banned from his future auctions.

His response: "Must be my lucky day" (Full and complete message)

VERY happy to not deal with someone like him in the future.

Cheers,
Patrick

I think eBay would like to hear about this. They presumably lost guaranteed money buy a transaction on eBay being cancelled in favor of a transaction involving the same card off eBay.

Funny you should mention this - I just got done reporting both of them to eBay over the phone for engaging in a transaction outside of eBay.

This is a direct violation of eBay rules.

I hope they both get banned!

Unfortunately that will be a long shot, at best. Showpiecessports has 6500+ items for sale right now. Ebay isn't going to ban them for one transaction. All about their bottom line...

And also, wouldn't you potentially have a legal recourse against the original seller as well? I'm not a lawyer but, I know there is the possibility of a suit being brought for specific performance. But that is typically only for real estate transactions because of the specific and unique nature of such sales. Still, and you could confirm this with Ebay, I believe transactions executed using their platform are considered the same as a binding contract. If so, it sure sounds like you had completed the sale and offered adequate compensation for the item being purchased, and then got lied to as to what happened. And if in fact the Cobb postcard now for sale on Ebay at almost four times what you would have paid for it is the same card in the same PSA holder, you pretty much have him by the you-know-whats! At this point you probably can't force him to complete the transaction as he now longer has the card. But, you could at least ask for damages, which I believe should at least be the additional profit he made on screwing you and selling to this other guy who cut in on your deal.

It obviously is not worth it to formally go to sue this guy and pay an attorney to try taking him to court but, it couldn't hurt to threaten him with exposing what he did to Ebay and and also threaten to sue him for the difference he cost you, plus all the court costs and your attorney fees to go after him. From what you've said and shown, you have this guy dead to rights and can fairly easily prove he's guilty as sin of cheating you. Worst case scenario, he tells you to go pound salt, and you walk away knowing he's a jerk and never do business with him again. Better case scenario, he gives/pays you something so you don't go after him or report him to Ebay and you maybe have some money to at least go buy something else for yourself.

Ha!

Ebay doesn't give a shit.

I've already reported both parties to eBay, but I don't think it would be worth it for me to try and sue him for the difference between what I paid and what he sold it for.

He is also not responding to any of my messages, so I don't think a threat of a lawsuit will make any bit of difference to him.

My only hope from all of this is that maxcollector69 and showpiecessports both get exposed for what they did.

While that might be true, I still feel it was worth my 10 minutes on the phone to report the incident and let eBay investigate, even if nothing comes of it.

They did but there are only a couple people that will care. For the rest as soon as one of the sellers list something on their want list they will bid on it. It has been proven so many times on this forum that stuff trumps everything I have pretty much stopped caring if others get ripped off.

You never know, happen to have a friend that is an attorney who would be willing to write a letter to the original seller? You've got this seller's address, send it certified and see what comes of it. He may still ignore you and you probably won't do anything going forward but, for a small expense for postage and a favor from an attorney you know, you can maybe get the satisfaction of giving him a few sleepless nights, or even the comforting thought that some of that money he screwed you out of went to an attorney he had to go see to check out the letter you sent him. You never know! Good luck, and I do feel for you that got screwed. Shouldn't have happened.

And if you don't have an attorney friend you can ask, there's enough attorneys on Net54. Maybe one of them would be willing to do this if for no other reason than to maybe give this guy enough of a scare so he never pulls that kind of stunt again on anyone else.

I don't have his physical address, but I do have his (maxcollector69) full name and email address.

I'd happily provide this to anyone who is interested.

A fellow Net54 user has informed me that showpiecessports (Joe Dwek) is currently registered as one of the dealers at the upcoming National.

Booths 1413 and 1512, according to the dealer list.

I'd greatly appreciate it if anyone visiting his table(s) would let him know what they think of his business practices.

...

Fingers crossed!

I realize that you didn't get the card that you "bought" off of eBay but are you 100% sure the new seller of the card did anything that is against eBay rules. The two sellers aren't that far apart. It is possible that after the listing where you hit the BIN the original seller sold it at a card show or through a private deal that had nothing to do with eBay. It has been over 6 weeks since you hit the BIN. The first seller is an ass for not going through with the deal between you two. The current seller may be innocent of any wrong doings. Just an observation.
James

The current seller is hiding behind a story that a "client" of his traded the card to him for an autograph, but he won't reveal any info about his so-called "client".

Even if he's not the one who bought the card off of maxcollector69, he's covering for his client who did.

Not innocent in either scenario.

Ebay should have his full name and address. Just contact them again and ask for it, and tell them exactly why. If they refuse, I'd think that then makes them complicit with the seller. Ask them to confirm then that this deal you thought was completed using their site was a legal, binding contract, and if so, how can they not assist you in getting in touch with the seller since he no longer will respond to your emails.

Or, see if if you can find someone who bought something from this guy and would have his address from when they mailed the item to them.

Well first time I stepped into a thread like this. So first I am not a perfect hobby member in fact this week I forgot about a package and mailed an item 5 days after I said I would.
BUT I delt with showpiece sports last year and Joe is a GOOD GUY.
I am sorry An EBAY seller screwed you and I would bet Joe is sorry he screwed you but he did nothing wrong here. 100% seller fault. Really what would you want Joe to do sell you the card for less than he paid for it?
You cannot be sure he did anything wrong And yet you say you are almost 100% certin he did. That is not cool
Is it to much to ask you give him a break? For you and me this is a hobby but for someone who pays for multiple tables at national and has 6k listings this might be an important business and to jump up and down and say he is unethical and ask folks to "stop by his table and tell him so" .
I would not appreciate anyone stopping by my workplace disrupting my business would you?
You know who did you wrong for $15 you can sue him in a New Jersey small claims court. If you prevailed you might win some damages. But the scorched earth policy of anyone connected to this must pay and pay. Is neither fair nor just.
My real world experiance with Joe tells me that the opinion in your head is wrong about him.
Jonathan Sterling

???
 

H*ll of an attitude...

Simply going by facts, Joe is currently in possession of the card and refuses to provide any info that could prove his innocence in this.

Based on what, exactly, should I be cutting him a break?

Well first off he never promised to sell you the card for $1200.00. Second he told you he took card in on trade.Third he is right not giving you name of collector who traded it. IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. What make you think anyone owes it to you to prove their innocence. I thought basic justice meant Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
You know who did you wrong do the work to fix it or get over it. Trashing someone who you feel is withholding evidence from you is wrong. JUST WRONG. Put yourself in Joe's shoes would you act differantly? I would not,who I trade or sell cards to and for how much is none of yours or anybody's business. Unless card has been reported stolen and this card has not.

this ^

So all the evidence so far points to Joe as the buyer of the card, and I should just blindly trust his word that he's innocent?

The original seller is NOT the only person who wronged me here.

If Joe's story has any merit at all, he needs to provide info on who traded him the card. IT IS MY BUSINESS if he's the only person who can provide that info.

If I were in Joe's shoes, not only would I do everything I could to help out, including providing info on the client, I'd also never do business again with that client. Joe obviously values his client over his ethics. And that's going on a HUGE assumption that his story is even true.

Wait a second....have you read the post? The OP bought the card, paid for it, and then received shipping confirmation. Then about 15 minutes later received an email from the seller maxcollector69 thaT THE CARD AND CASE WAS DAMAGED BY HIS KIDS AND HE WAS CANCELING THE DEAL.... now here we are a few weeks later and suddenly our seller Joe, has THE EXACT CARD IN THE EXACT CASE WITH ZERO DAMAGE for sale on eBay.... he doesn't have to say how he acquired it but it's maxcollector69s card in the same case, ... I sent him a question asking him about the claimed damage to the card and case from the original seller and he did not respond at all.... all of his actions seem to be ones of someone with a guilty conscience (I would bet anyone that Joe told maxcollector69 he sold too cheap and he would pay him more, then did so off eBay, but was so stupid he listed it on eBay for all of us to see).... you say he's a good guy, so go ahead buy from him.... but I will never have interest in anything he sells.... he certainly can come on here and tell his side of the story, and I told him in my note to him about this Net54 post, but he is staying quiet...

I wouldn't tell anyone where I got the card from either for privacy reasons. Last year I sold a card to a member here. When he received the package the bubble mailer had been sliced open and the card was gone. A couple months ago the card showed as part of a set up at an auction house that lists their auctions here. I called the auction house asking for the same type of information that you are asking for. I was told that for privacy reasons they couldn't give me any info.
James

You can bet if any of my stolen cards show up, I'll try my damndest to find where they came from. Not that I'll have any luck

+1 on Brian ‘s
 

Sure, Maybe Joe is totally innocent, and piglets could also fly out of my behind. He didn’t even bother to sell it in a different venue. Pretty shameless if you ask me.

A promise is a promise.
 

Sure he did, that’s what posting something on eBay is, an implied promise to sell something for a certain price (either the BIN price or the auction hammer price).
In this case the seller set the price himself and then reneged on the promise. Pretty simple stuff, I would say. Hard to spin it away.

A promise is a promise But Joe never promised anyone anything
 

Brian You and the OP do not have have not a single shread of evidence that Joe bought the card from maxcollector69. Joe responded to the OP and answered his question on how he acquired the card. The card was not stolen so it would be wrong for him to tell you or anyone the name of who traded him the card. Again it is none of your business.
Don't you get that it is wrong to say things like I would bet anyone he is "guilty" and "stop by his booth at the national" without any proof that he did anything unethical. Who appointed you guys judge jury and executioner?
I personally would not contact an Ebay seller and offer him more for an item after it already sold. But in this case the only person who acted in a way that harmed the OP is MAXCOLLECTOR69. He made the decision to not ship the card and to lie about why. He made the decision to sell the card to someone else. Joe took the card in on trade NOTHING UNETHICAL OR ILLEGAL about that. If it was then I have been a criminal since I was 8 years old and started trading baseball cards.

As for Tim yes a promise is a promise and stupid is as stupid does. Next time please read the post and if you don't understand it ..then best not to respond to it.

I would suggest that you 3 owe an apology to Joe but I know self righteous guys like you rarely have the guts to admit you were wrong. And that a complete lack of evidence only makes the conspiracy more real. But standing up for the wrongly accused (Those accused despite any evidence to indicate they did anything wrong) is always the right thing to do. If Joe did anything at all wrong I think it will come out but you don't convict people and wait for the evidence to show up.
Jonathan Sterling

Your fierce loyalty to Joe is touching
 

Yes, I did misread your post, although why you bothered to say that Joe did not promise to sell the OP the card for $1200 is a mystery since no one ever claimed he did. But The original eBay seller did make that promise, and there is good reason to suspect that Joe interfered with that transaction. If he didn’t, then he can come on this board and explain his side of things. That would go much further in his defense than your flailing about is doing.

So what you're saying is that Joe, or whoever the original buyer of the card is who offered more to maxcollector69, did nothing wrong? You even said yourself that's something you wouldn't do! Are you flipping serious!?!?

And Joe being the only other known owner of the card is plenty enough evidence to suspect him of being the buyer.

Where's the proof that Joe took the card in on trade? That's right. There's none!

Without a doubt maxcollector69 is guilty for not following through on his transaction, and the reason he didn't we clearly know is a lie because the case isn't damaged. Now here we are and showpiecessports has the card in his inventory for sale.

Nothing unethical or illegal about trading for it, or unethical or illegal if he bought it, and nothing illegal if he interfered with Dmitrys transaction (although eBay would be less than thrilled for loosing transaction fees and having shenanigans taking place through their company's business, but we know it happens all the time).... if he did that though that would be unethical.

I have seen many a reputation destroyed over the internet. There are topics like this that come up all the time and when whoevers reputation or character is being questioned they come on to the board and tell their side of the story, and if they did nothing wrong then everyone moves on.

I am surprised Joe has been so quiet, after all anyone can google search his eBay name and this stuff now appears, if it was my name and integrity being questioned I would certainly come online and tell my side of the story.

I can appreciate you sticking up for your friend, but you don't know the facts...maxcollector69 does and Joe may certainly have info to share if he so chooses.

Ebay clearly states that when you agree to purchase a card from a seller, it is a binding agreement. Are we to say that is unilateral, and the binding agreement doesnt bind the (original) seller in this case?

What about stolen property? The (second) seller wouldn't even be reimbursed, he'd have to go after who he purchased it from. The authorities would just take the card into evidence.

There are enough attorneys on the board that we can just write off (and laugh at) most of the other posters. Those which are simply conjecture and speculation what the law is, how it reads, or what can hold up in court.

Brian - it's even worse than you say. Joe doesn't even need to google himself to see his name in this thread. He's been directly TOLD by at least two Board members that this thread exists. And his only response has been to date has been "must be my lucky day." He is well informed that this thread exists - he obviously just doesn't care to respond. I'll let folks draw their own conclusions on what that means.

Cheers,
Patrick

Nothing illegal if he interfered with it?

This is of course an amateur opinion as I'm not a lawyer, but....

Ebay states in a couple places in their user agreement that a sale is a contract between buyer and seller. They used to have language like that every time I listed stuff, but it's been a while so they might not have that reminder for sellers anymore.

And from Wikipedia

"Tortious interference, also known as intentional interference with contractual relations, in the common law of torts, occurs when one person intentionally damages someone else's contractual or business relationships with a third party causing economic harm.[1] For example, someone could use blackmail to induce a contractor into breaking a contract or they could obstruct someone's ability to honor a contract with a client by deliberately refusing to deliver necessary goods.[2]

So I'd say interfering with a completed sale on Ebay is illegal.
That's not to say that it might be hard to prove, or more expensive to sue over than the item.

Ok, maybe it is illegal, I don't know either, I was just responding to the other post...and stating that trading for cards in general is not illegal or unethical, which is what that poster was saying...that Joe or anyone can trade for things, what's wrong with that"....and I was then saying nothing, but if Joe had interfered with the transaction that it was at a minimum unethical. I am on the OPs side on this and question the whole thing. I was the one that found the card suddenly for sale again and notified Dmitry about its reappearance....

So if the card was 'stolen' then it would be ok for the new seller to give the info of who traded him the card. So now there are reasons that info should be disclosed.

Well the poster is basically claiming fraud because he was told the card/case was damaged which was the reason for the non sale and he is alleging there is nothing wrong with the card. So whether the card was 'stolen' 'fraud' some other bad deed, it would appear you really cant just say its none of his business to see how the new seller got the card...others can disagree but i dont think its so simple to say its none of his business

Ok.

That wasn't meant as ripping you, just adding that yes, interfering is sometimes illegal.