Wow, lots of current bids on those cards too! :eek:

They scan different ways depending on how the light reflects.

Has this guy turned his consignee into the authorities? Has he told you the guys name? What area are these "fake" cards coming from? If he hasn't, he's in on it.

A few years back it was discovered that many fakes were coming from south of the border. It has been investigated by the Secret Service in CA but I don't know if that got anywhere. It is a big scheme.

I understand, but explain to me how this guy is consigning cards with someone he doesn't know? Are these cards showing up in his mail box. Doesn't the thief have to fill out a form with loads of personal/financial information?

Seems to me that once Bob notified him of the fraudulent cards, he would turn over his consignee to the authorities. Is this too simple?

From what I remember it was a ponzi type scheme before. I think one guy ended up in jail back then, in California?. If you search some, on this board, you will find some answers. I spent quite a few hours on it back then.

I doubt the distribution scheme is that simple, it probably has multiple levels, although I don't know.

The authorities are aware of certain individuals who are acting as mules for the guy in Mexico who is resealing these holders. Have no idea why arrests have not been made. I understand that PSA is actively cooperating with the investigation but also keeping it very quiet. This is very much like the WIWAG scandal in 2002 where collectors were not being looked out for--just need to make sure the brand is protected. PSA feels the best way to do that is not call attention to the problem.

a few updates...

after texting w/ seller and entering into "aggressive" negotiations, it appears that he has notified other buyers of the issue. as it has come to my attention that the seller was notified that another card was a fake and i laid into him for not telling me that mine was fake. (i told him jan 26, there was a possible issue and that i had to send the card to psa).

so basically laid into him that he knew something fishy was transpiring and that he shoulda at least notified me that it was a probable fake instead of me waiting around on psa's verdict. his reply was that "he was hoping it was an isolated incident and that he was hoping for the best." completely wrong answer and excuse in my book.

he also stated that the bird/magic rookie was sent in as well however that it was legit. i have a call set up w/ joe o. on Monday afternoon and will inquire if there is any truth to this claim.

at this time, i do know that he did notify another unsuspecting buyer who has contacted me so it appears the negotiation tactics did work, but i still believe that it shouldn't have required a swift kick in the....

i am still working this to gauge and possibly gather any of the "consignees" contact info so that i can forward any info to psa/proper authorities.

at this point it's a delicate balance, but so far it seems he has at least notified 1 other seller after i told him to "wake the f up" and you need to notify any and everybody you sold these cards to...

whether or not joe can confirm if the bird/magic rc was legit will tell me all i need to know about whether this guy is in on it or simply a beautiful schmuck.

if he's in on it, may god help him....

I really don't think he is in on it but I could be wrong. I also bought from him years back and everything was legit. I also believe him to be on the Set Registry although I don't know his registry name or collecting interests.

His inventory is very high end and spans many TPGs. Most of it is newer stuff and he has plenty of five figure cards in BGS holders as well. Hope I am right although in todays collecting world I know better than to get my hopes up.

I don't know if it's relevant to how PSA grades the 80 Topps but the perforations do not appear to me to be centered between the panels.

begsu1013 did you post this scam warning on collectors universe sports card forum yet?

Wow!! And we all thought that autographs were the worst part of the collecting hobby :eek::eek:

mr. alt,

no. my posting privileges were revoked for speaking my mind and certainly not embarrassed about it one bit.

for some reason i was never into gag orders, upgrades that didn't work, getting lied to about who was responsible for fixing the glitches or being told that i simply wasn't important enough to care about.

but that's just me. i'm also allergic to shark bites.

in a weird turn of events though, it worked out pretty well as i am not swirling the toilet bowl after the proverbial dump they took on ya'll. ; )

never did see that link in the $200,00K mantle thread that i asked for...

you run and dodge really well.

you should be glad.

That's unfortunate you got banned from Collectors universe sports forums. You could have warned people in that forum about how you got scammed.

How many minutes would that thread have lasted?

trust me, i've lost all sorts of sleep over it...

but kinda confused on how i got scammed?

amex credited me.

but please enlighten me w/ your masked and infinite wisdom....

(notice the deflection again on the link i requested)

and what's your name again, jdogg?

So your saying this crime is a never-ending consignment? Everyone says he's consigning for someone else all the way down the line?

Interestingly, Joe's letter to Bob only addresses the holder, not the card. Would be nice if PSA also addressed the authentication of the card along with the holder next time.

Not necessarily. I am just guessing that like a drug cartel, there are enough intermediaries that the trail is going to be hard to trace back to the man even if someone gets caught.

Agree
 

I agree with you Peter. Need to catch people like this but how many degrees of separation do we find? How long is the trail. But it sucks. And more of this crap is happening. Frustrating and discouraging

I have been told by a few reliable sources that there are dealers who have talked with or had contact with the guy who is directly involved with the resealing. Would seem to me that an arrest would have been made if this were true. Dunno...

His registered name, per the rules, is Jas.on Che.ng. I have emailed and let him know I would like to have a chat on the phone at his earliest convenience. I have found it worthwhile to chat with our members for a couple minutes (on the phone) about their collecting focus while keeping the board as safe as it can be (within certain constraints).

ps...spoke with Jason on the phone this evening. Didn't sound like an alt...

Maybe Sean Penn and that Mexican actress can arrange a meeting with him.

I spoke with the supposed mastermind several times. Try tracing/catching someone using some kind of magic jack phone who is based in Mexico but seems to be very mobile. I don't think it's a gimme..I really don't know what happened to that investigation in the end either. I understand one guy downstream got picked up on some kind of fraud charge but really don't know good details (or remember them). And all of that was a few years ago, or so. I presume if not stopped the culprit kept doing what he does...which is defrauding collectors using altered holders and cards.

Psa holders
 

I have always thought that psa holders should be designed to change colors after sonic bonding. If cracked, the sonic bonded area could then easily show significant damage. The flips should also include micro-print only visible with a 10x loupe. Psa needs to work harder than the us treasury to protect the consumer.

Well I have no idea about how the underworld works but there are currently dealers in the US who are tied to this guy while claiming total innocence. If this was important enough to national security magic jack phones or not, I suspect his operation would not be ramping up as it appears to be.

If high end cards keep fetching the ludicrous sums that they have been, then people will keep sending in their cards to get graded. As long as those two things keep happening, the scammers will keep scamming and PSA will continue to not care. Rinse, wash repeat. Ego, delusion and denial will keep this train running forever.

A while back, I realized it was cheaper to buy raw cards and, even if 75% are messed with, I'm still out less than if I bought one high grade slabbed card that turned out to be bogus.

haha...i think sean penn...and "the actress" have learned their lesson with el chapo!

something doesnt look right with his 1957 Topps Basketball cards
 

The color in the Russell rookie is way off

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-TOPPS-B...cAAOSwA4dWIT9r

ditto with a bunch of others. like the 57 Cousy--

The cards look strange, but perhaps his scanner is just changing the colors significantly. Scanner could be altering the image.
Also a number of other high end cards in PSA holders just look off, but perhaps its the scans.

It appears Bob has shared a solution to this problem. Just send any high end card you buy for a reholder right away and pay with an Amex. You'll be out some shipping fees but that's a small price to pay for peace of mind.

Exactly. I don't know the exact dates, but it took PSA around ten years to purportedly improve the holder to minimize this type of fraud. To take that long after the WIWAG scandal is a disgrace in my opinion.

I'm glad to hear the buyer was made right.

Maybe it's time to go back and enjoy collecting cards like it was in the Pre-Grading Days. Going to shows or going on Ebay and buying raw cards and staying away from having to have the best cards available. Seems it would be more enjoyable not having to always second guess the card I just spent a thousand or two is altered or switched or a fake...etc. Any time there is big money involved someone will find a way to cheat.

Disgrace yes,,, but PSA could give two shi-- about that.

All about profits. The way they handled the WIWAG scandal demonstrated they only cared about their brand not the people who made the brand what it is. Nothing at all has changed since then. An argument could be made that they care even less now about protecting the collectors. Despite being well aware of the problem of holders being resealed they have been silent.

update:

edit: was asked to remove for a couple of days

Yeap where there is smoke there is more smoke. The Orr doesn't look right at all, as I pointed out before the Bird Magic perforations are off center so maybe it was just a self-bumped 9.

I'm just a small time collector, but this is great news! :)

I would guess the scammer had a fair number of his concoctions reholdered already so even assuming one can't duplicate the new holder, there are other ways...

irv,

please edit your post to remove my original post please in accordance w/ helping catch this guy.

Done.

thank you sir.

This is pretty damned scary.

I'm sure this is going to be a really stupid question but, does a low end t206 collector (PSA1-4) have to worry about this?

Not exactly high end items but there's still money to be made there right? Again apologies for the dumb question but I'm being serious.

Josh, very unlikely in my opinion. Not cost effective for the scammers. You could be dealing with some minor improvements by the more usual card doctor crowd, but not this stuff. Even at that pretty unlikely I would think.

have seen a few goudys in fake holders in the psa 4 - 5 range....

but I do feel bad for this guy.

it's apparent that they were the middle men in all of this.

ebays says they are officially off the hook as its been 30 days,

but as for who ends up holding the bag...

is it paypal or them?

feel really bad if it's them....

If the guy was selling them sight unseen that should have been a major red flag. Not to mention wrong. See past threads on (ironically) Where They Ain't.

exactly, peter.

as soon as he told me that he never had them, i knew the rest were fake immediately.

I tried to convey that to him, but it was only met w/ insults, curse words and threats from him.

he did apologize today when he found out 4 other cards were fakes.

his wife is not happy.

Stupid question, but the casino industry is able to make "money" with chips that are basically counterfeit proof. The diamond industry engraves serial numbers on the diamonds. Is there not a better way? Like microchipping a case with the card? I mean, if I can find my iPad anywhere in the world, or scan a lost puppy to locate its home, can an industry leader not microchip the holder so it can be verified immediately? Like a digital fingerprint of some sort? Put this in their "premium pricing" grading model, and they increase profit margins overnight, no?

Obviously counterfeiters will be on the forefront, but doesnt a hologram and a sonic seal --whatever that is-- seem sorta 90s nostalgic?