T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Ralph</b><p>I just thought that there are many on here interested in the T-210 card set that I would list the toughies.I found this set rather easy to assemble as my first lot I bought had 125 cards & it included a Joe Jackson along with 124 others at $5.00 a pop & the Jackson at $125.00 & in Exellent ++ condition.Now the Jackson card has not only become a much higher priced card it is very scarce & I would add it as a difficult find.Before I start reeling off the toughies let me add that I have been reading a lot of replies indicating the condition of these cards.It is a very condition sensitive set just like the Baseball Mayo & I believe the 1971 Topps Baseball had a black border & these card's chip easily.The overall condition of my set was better than Exellent as I had numerous cards from series 6,7 & 8 that in some cases the cards were perfect as in no chips ,creases & very sharp corners.So where are these kinds of cards now?In private hands by people who won't sell them.I know of some friends that have 30 of the T-210 cards all in great shape & they tried getting just a few cards from each series & where do you suppose those cards are in their home?Their hanging on their living room wall in a frame & they look beautiful.I too have had the pleasures of finding cards in odd places & have heard true stories as to them being found behind the walls of older homes & in pristine condition for not seeing the light of day.Now that I have rambled on enough here is the T-210 breakdown.<br /><br />The Most Difficult:<br />Burnett-Montgomery Series 8<br />Hart-Montgomery Series 8<br />Cantwell-Fayetteville Series 7(Very,Very Difficult)<br />Dwyer-Fayetteville Series 7 (very ,Very Difficult)<br />Hyames-Wilmington Series 7 (lots of luck on this card**)<br />Smith-Atlanta Series 8<br />Whitaker-Richmond Series 6<br />Doster-New Orleans Series 8<br />Kelly-Mascot-Goldsboro Series 7(The sweetest looking card in the entire set)<br />McLaurin-Chattanooga series 8<br />Gisler-Maysville Series 6<br />Robertson-New Orleans series 8<br />Van Landingham-Shelbyville series 6<br />Drumm-Greenville Series 5<br />Merchant-Goldsboro Series 7<br /><br />Semi-Difficult:<br />Jackson-New Orleans Series 8(Not for myself,but in todays collecting field)<br />Stengel-Maysville Series 6(Same notation as for Jackson card)<br />Yeager-Winchester Series 6<br />Paris-Scheneberg Portrait series 6<br />Ham-Raleigh Series 7<br />Goostree-Winchester Series 6 (Hands behind back)<br />Goostree-Winchester serirs 6 (Leaning on bat)<br />Rogers-Atlanta Series 8<br />Gunderson-Goldsboro Series 7<br />Cooper-Wilson Series 7<br /><br />Believe IT OR NOT'S<br />Smith-Lynchburg-(Batting) Series 2<br />Erlewein-Charleston Series 4<br />Waymack-Richmond Series 2<br />Schwietzka-Columbia Series 1<br />Wysong-Greenville series 5<br /><br /><i></i> The Hyames card is a very unique card & the card is very desireable.I would like to add my opinion that I believe more T-210 cards will pop-up from this team.There you have it.This is a breakdown of the cards that gave me the most difficulties,remember these are the cards that I thought I would never find but in time they popped up.The Smith-Lynchburg Batting card was one of the last ones I needed & that card today is quite plentiful. I hope you all find this useful & while I am thinking about it why don't some of you guys post any from these I have listed as I would love to see the little red trinkets that I once owned(Foolishly sold).If anyone would like more info as to other cards they have on their wantlist I would be happy to respond & help you as to the best of my ability.Also want to say good luck completing the set if your going for it as it is not impossible but I will add that when I did it I had no use of the PC but you know what,I had no one to outbid me etc... so with the computer being used it limits ones chances on completing the set.Just my two cents.Hope this helps & enjoy your day. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /><br />Want to add that Prim-Raleigh was added to checklist in 1984.

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>I never completed the set, but got to about 550 and had almost all of the ones you listed. As any large set, if you polled the collectors truely trying to complete the set you would get several different answers as to the toughies as these were probably all printed in equal numbers. Over time and attrition of individual players some may seem more difficult to one collector and easy to another.<br /><br />At any rate thanks for the input, perhaps others will post at to their experience.<br /><br />Below are the cards I needed when I gave up.<br /><br />Scott<br /><br /><br />series 3-billiard, gear, malloy, merritt, mills, pendleton, slaven, thebo.<br />series 4-carney, geary, kane, moye, o'connor, waldron, zurlage.<br />series 5-cashion, lave cross, f.b. derrick, jackson, johnston, kelly, mangum, wehrel.<br />series 6-barnett, beard, callahan, chapman, cornell(winchester), dailey, edington, elgin, ellis, goodman, goosetree(leaning on bat), harold, hicks, kuhlman, mulvain, moloney, ross, scheneberg(fielding), <br />tinford, yancey. <br />series 7-biel, brandt, brown, cantwell, carrol, crockett, evans, galvin, handibe, macdonald, malcolm, mayer, merchant, morgan, noval, o'halloran, richardson, sharp, sherrill.<br />series 8- allen(memphis), bauer, bay, berger, brooks, burnett, carson, cohen, collins, crandall, cross, davis, demaree, e. demontreville, dudley, elliott, farrell, fisher, fleharty, foster, fritz, jackson, kelly, keupper, laftitte, larsen, manuel, marcun, maxwell, mcbride, mclaurin, miller(chatt), miller(mont.), newton, owen, paige, patterson, peters, pratt, rhodes, schlitzer, thomas(portrait), wagner(birm.), wagner(mobile), walker, welf, whitney, wilder, yerkes.

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Ralph</b><p>Agree with you Scott but it also depends on the certain era here.What years did you start?If you had Cantwell-Fayetteville then you had one tough card.I made the list just to give some of the collectors on here a chance to see the cards that are indeed more difficult than others.But it depends on the year you started.I am not saying your wrong Scott but I just think that now with the use of the computer these cards are going to give collectors fits.If you collected them back before the PC you would find these cards a bit easier but now it is going to be very challenging for them today.Also was wondering on the T-209 Type II's if you could let me know how many different cards your checklist shows.I have counted 226 I ask this because if you collected the Contentnea B&W cards there may be a card you have or had that never got catalogued. Thanks for your reply.<br />Regards,<br />Ralph.

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>judson hamlin</b><p>As someone who has a few 210's but hasn't really dug too far into the sets, what is it about the Hyames card that makes it so tough? Very short print, unique pose, something about the player? Thanks

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Shawn Chambers</b><p>I second the above! I would like to see it and especially the coveted Kelly-Mascot. A card (apparently) so fabled and beautiful that not only did it inspire your login...I will probably wander the face of the earth seeking my own upon one glance at it's cardboard splendor!!<br /><br />Waiting patiently,<br /><br />Shawn<br /><br />PS...thanks for all your insights in to your battle with the set. I now have 3 series 6s thanks to Frank Wakefield and Paul Stratton. Hoping to slowly add more and always pulling for Frank to find his two.

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Ralph</b><p>The Hyames card from what I have read from other T-210 collectors is a SP card.So with this card being short printed plus the fact that a lot of collectors collect only certain teams because of where they live makes this card a real tough card to locate. Now I would like to pose this question to you T-210 collectors,If there are new T-210 card additions which team do you think these additions will come from?

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Ralph</b><p>The Kelly-Mascot card is a card of a small boy no taller than 3 feet in height holding a bat 3 times his size & what makes the card so electrifying is the bat has a glimmer of blonde coloring to the huge bat.I'll keep ya posted if one comes my way <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>When Bill Goodwin offered a big collection a few years ago he pictured the mascot on the website. That was the first time I had ever seen it. I don't know if he keeps an online archive but if so, it's there (wish I could remember the date, but the collection sold for six figures and garnered quite a bit of discussion on the board).

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>Ralph,<br /><br />Thanks for your informative post and for starting an interesting discussion.<br /><br />By the way, the only cards I've had in my collection from your list are:<br /><br />Waymack (2)<br />Drumm (5)<br /><br />Robert

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Ralph</b><p>That's great as those listed are the more difficult cards so your on a roll,congrats <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Zach Rice</b><p>Ralph, thanks for the detailed post and for unveiling some of the true rarities in the T210 set. <br /><br />As a collector who has only recently changed his focus from strictly the second series, I can’t offer much information on rarities other than those of the second series, and even then, I’d hardly consider any second series cards “rare”. I’m down to needing five-<br /><br />Eddowes<br />Jackson-Norfolk<br />Levy<br />Powell<br />Zimmerman<br /><br /><br />Like I said above, I wouldn’t consider any of these cards “rare”, however, a few cards tough. Both Zimmerman and Levy don’t show nearly as often as the others. Zimmerman is on many T210 collectors’ want lists. Levy is apparently a Jewish athlete, and as a result, his card has multiple audiences chasing it. <br /><br /><br />Ralph, i'd really enjoy seeing your T209-2 checklist with 226 players. I don't think others would mind it posted in this thread, but if so, you could email it to me or make a new thread about the T209 set.<br /><br />Zach Rice<br /><br />

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Ralph</b><p>Yes I can email you the list of T-209 type II's.The Hyames card is nice but that Mascot card I tell ya I would trade a wagner in order to own it once again.Hyames pose on the T-210 shows him getting ready to release the ball as he has it up by his ear.Great action shot.

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>Ralph--Nice post. I looked through my dups and had four from your list (scan posted--sorry but I can't reduce it): Robertson(8), Rogers(8), Cooper(7) and Gunderson(7). These are all available for trade (oldjudge@gmail.com). I would also be interested in seeing your list of 226 T209-2s. I was only aware of 222.<br /><br />Best---Jay<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1187131995.JPG">

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Ralph</b><p>Very nice cards.I want to say that the cards I listed were tough for me at that time.Now we are talking 23 years ago so at the time I was collecting these cards there have been more newer finds as I said there will likely be more finds in this set.But I should do a spin-off on the sister set of these cards.Anyone want to take a guess what that set might be by designation? It is very interesting & I remember the stories told to me in letters as to why these cards were actually produced.If anyone can guess I'll do the post but guys I gotta go & eat,LOL. I have been emailing the T-209 B&W C.List & replying but it's worth it <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Bill Stone</b><p>While focusing primarily on the Series 6 set I started to pick up the Lynchburg team in series 2--I found the following fairly easily :<br /> Beham<br /> Brandon<br /> Eddowes<br /> Gehring<br /> Griffin<br /> Hoffman<br /> Lucia<br /> Michel <br /> Smith -fielding<br /> Sharp<br /> Woolums and<br /> Zimmerman<br />I continure to try to upgrade my Frankfort team in Series 6.

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>I also pursued this bad boy at one time and know of several collectors still working it. Come on and spill the beans<br /><br />Scott

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Ralph</b><p>I'm off to the boob tube and wait for the wife to come home. Good Night guys <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Schwietzka<br /><br /><img src="http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z105/pstratt63/t210schwietzka.jpg"><br />

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Ralph,<br />I appreciate very much the wealth of information that you've brought and offered to the board and the responsive, deferential manner in which you<br />presented your fine collection.<br />My small 210 collection is long gone but it was wonderful to remember that<br />world in the vivid detail with which you presented your collection and the<br />history of your collecting.<br />Many, many thanks.<br />all the best,<br />Barry

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Ralph</b><p>Barry thank-you very much for the compliment as I had many different collectors sending me cards all the time.I thought by showing the cards that were tough it would let the collector today see which cards gave me fits.I know the list has changed somewhat but only because of the different era.The only other collector to finish the set his last card was Dwyer so that card I would say is very much limited & if anyone on the boards has either the Merchant,Cantwell cards I would love a scan.What are the chances of that happening,like me winning the Lotto.<br />Regards,<br />Ralph.

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>A half dozen of gentlemen from the Blue Grass League of 1910, 7 of the more difficult series 6 Old Mill red border cards, T210, according to Ralph's estimation.<br /><br />When I acquired Gisler, the price seemed high to me, the seller was certain that his cards were less plentiful. And I believe that. A few folks on the board have Goostree leaning on his bat, and I think that is a very difficult card. I suspect that in the old days some collectors doubted that Van Landingham was available with a Shelbyville designation. <br /><br />I'm after Angermeier fielding, and Whitaker. I'll play tambourine and dance at your wedding if you can find me either of these cards. <br /><br /><img src="http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/greatwake/T210s6difficultcards.jpg"><br /><br />

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Bill Stone</b><p>Frank--thanks for posting these gems---I still think that the cocky pose of Yeager of Wichester is my favorite of all vintage cards. It just has everything !

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>You're right about that pose...<br /> <br /><br />He looks like he's looking in a bar, sizing up who he's going to whip first. He musta been a Kentucky boy.

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Ralph</b><p>Frank great cards there & I see that the Whitaker was one I had on my list too along with other series 6 which are tough little buggers.Thanks for the show.Just curious what make is your scanner???? <br />Regards,<br />Ralph.

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>An old HP 3300C, that I got from my kind little brother.

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Andy Cook</b><p>Are all series 3s available in both red and orange borders? Andy

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Ralph</b><p>No you can't find them all in both colors as they do vary.You may find a few that have both colors but that's another story <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>When I sold my near set, I believe I had about 20 orange border dupes of reds, that is a very good percentage of the series. There is no reason to believe all could not be found with orange borders as in all probabilty the entire sheets were produced that way, I also had orange border dupes so several sheets were probably printed with the orange ink, actually probably 100's of sheets, as the reds probably hads 1000's of sheets, as we would expect only 2-3% of them to survive today.

T-210 Red Border Break Down
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Andy, I think that was one fine question. And I'm surprised it hasn't been asked before.<br /><br />Initially, my thinking was that all 3s can be found with red, some with orange. But I have no precise proof of that. And I then thought what we should do is have folks try to post a red and an orange of each. What Scott says makes sense, and I think that if we did start a thread that sought to post one each, orange and red, of all series 3 T210s, we'd eventually get there.<br /><br />I've sold most of my series 3 cards. I think I've kept one orange and one red. I'll get those out of lock up in a few days and post them, either in a new thread about orange and red series 3 cards, or in one someone starts before me.<br /><br />Great question! And while we might not be able to post 95 different little orange cards, I think we'll get close.<br /><br />Frank<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

I believe there are only 20 Series 3 cards with orange borders but if anyone knows of any OBs besides these, please let me know.

tbob (trophybob@sbcglobal.net)

Alexander
Billiard
Blanding
Burch
Curry
Firestine
Gordon
Hooks
Johnston
Jones
Kipp
Leidy
Munsell
Nagel
Northern
Slaven
Stringer
Stinson
Thebo
Yantz

Guaranteed that is the existing list. This by the way is one of my favorite threads of all time. I have read it countless times.

So I first read this thread years ago. I thought it would be fun to try and get Ralph’s list, minus the Jackson and Stengel (though those would be fun, not realistic for me). I’m getting close and decided it was time to share my progress so far.


https://ed-s-cards.webnode.page/sout...-toughie-list/

I sold off the T210 that were not Houston or New Orleans last year. I randomly had a Hart Mont psa 1 that I sold at auction for $88 including the juice. I had no idea that it was the 2nd most difficult card in the set. Nice going on the run, Ed. I do still have Robertson NO, which is nice.

It's not. With all due respect to the OP, the information he provided is anecdotal. Without some element of data to support these assertions, they're opinions. Case in point, the Hyames card is referred to as a SP. What information is there to suggest that? It is the single card that represents the Wilmington team in the T210 set, so it is desirable to people looking for one card of every team, but there is no information out there that suggests it is a SP.

Guys, this thread is from the archives. It was written without a lot of knowledge that has evolved since then about the set. I just used it as a fun way to make a different collection from the set. I’m not sure who Ralph was or is, if he’s still with us or passed on. Because I was looking for these particular cards I watched so many auctions with various large groups to see if certain cards were there. So far from his list the consistent card many people are lacking when they sell is Merchant. And most guys know there are some crazy tough series 8 cards. To get to the point I am at with these has taken 5 years, but I passed on some cards many times because of price. This is just a fun thread to read, but as to actual scarcity (or rarity), take it all with a grain of salt. Ralph himself said what is tough to one collector isn’t the same for another. Times change. And K, do you recognize some of the cards in my group? Especially the mascot should seem familiar to you. Enjoy the hunt!

I have about 135 different spread across the eight series. I don't think Hyames is an SP as I had dupes of it a couple years ago.

Andy

Words of wisdom my friend.

Your site is fantastic and it was nice to see the result of years of patient, meticulous collecting. I forgot about that Carl Mitze card...I know it has been years.

Anecdotally of course, I think Series 8 is the toughest. Back in 2013, I started collecting data on all the T210s that came to market, to assemble some type of population report, but the effort didn't last long. Just not enough hours in the day.

Interesting List and Read
Cabrol, Raleigh Series 7 not mentioned in the above list, but was mention in J.R.Burdick's Letter dated Feb 25, 1939 as being new at that time from a post by Leon dated 6/25/2015. The Cabrol that I got through a trade from Net54 BST was the same from a REA 2015 Fall Auction Lot 105. Just my 2 cents

I would agree, Hyames is not all that hard to find over time, but it’s rarely cheap! The most interesting question regarding that card is why. Like, why is he the guy from Wilmington they chose as the sole representative for the set?

I remember this old thread, I feel like someone has trod across my grave.

There were a bunch of these old cards, and pre internet they weren't widely known nor collected.

My focus was on series 6, because I'm a Kentuckian. Once upon a time I managed to have 65 of the 66 cards, lacking Angermeier fielding (a description that annoys me still, because I think he's just standing with his catcher's mitt). I still have yet to see one, but I'm sure they're out there. After I sold and traded away most of my T210's, a friend collector contacted me saying that he'd acquired one, and he'd sell it to me if I still needed the card. (Do we really need a card?) I thanked him for thinking of me, and said no, I'd started selling them. I wish I'd sold different cards, and kept those.

I still have about 4 dozen of them. Fewer than 2 dozen from series 6, maybe a dozen series 8 Nashville cards, and then a few of the other series. This thread revives some good memories. Thanks.

This is the card, it sold in REA last October. I didn’t get it, but this is the photo from the auction.

My intention of reviving this thread was exactly your response, to bring back some good memories.

Ed, Thank You, Sir!

If I'd gotten that card back when, maybe the complete 66 cards would have been a reason to keep them.

Is that a baseball in his right hand? That card you've posted has the best image I recall ever seeing. And a bit of a smile / smirk on his face...

Leo Angermeier was born and died in Louisville, Kentucky. He died in 1919, at age 29. I may dig around and find out what I can about him.

Do you recall about what that card auctioned for? It's in great shape!

Frank,

It sold for$510. My family was just out in Lexington over Christmas. We had a good time. Kentucky was pretty, and plenty to do. We want to go back in Spring and see it with leaves and flowers. Anyway, looking at that auction, it just struck me how unoriginal they were with some of these cards. Case in point….