First time I’ve been ripped off
 

Hey guys,
Just thought I’d share an experience with you as this seller continues to sell on the BST here (for now).
I bought a Piper Bat from Kevin (khkco4bls) and the deal for one bat ballooned into 15 bats. Kevin sent me a lot of pictures of his collection and I said that one day I would like to purchase my first vintage baseball.
He proceeded to offer me a Goldsmith baseball that has the word ATLANTIC across the front. The price was 600 dollars, and that was only because I was already purchasing 15 bats. The Atlantic League was 1896 to 1900 and I told him that I would be so happy to add a ball from that era.

Long story short, I asked Brandon Grunbaum to confirm the age of the ball and he tells me that it’s ball from 1926-1932 and it’s worth 50 to 75 bucks. Not 600. Not rare and certainly not of the era I was told.

I write Kevin and simply tell him that the ball isn’t what he said it was and that I’d like a refund. His first response is that he has another one and when it goes to auction in October, he would refund me the difference.

I responded to that saying that waiting until October is too long and that I never would have bought the ball if he told me what it actually was, regardless if he actually knew or not.

He then responds to me “No. You made the deals we all win and lose sometimes you're going to have to wait”

I’ve had countless deals on the forum and every one has been smooth. I’ve never deceived anybody and nor will I ever. I’m thoroughly disappointed that I won’t be refunded but I think it’s fair that everyone knows that when dealing with Kevin, you will not be refunded if unhappy. Heck, he won’t refund me after selling a ball that he completely misrepresented.

I hope that he reconsiders and refunds me my money, but there has been a lot of back and forth and essentially he’s telling me that he knows I’ve been taken but that’s just part of the hobby.
Well it’s certainly not the hobby I want to contribute to.

Rant over.

Jonathan Schwartz

Ball Question
 

I guess the immediate question is: you spent $600 on a ball that you did no research on until after you paid for it?
Am I reading this incorrectly?

I thinks there's bigger issues than your " immediate question".

It looks like the seller you've accused has many items listed for sale on this site. If this is all true it doesn't say much for his honestly or credibility. Hopefully he will respond and present his side of this story. Returning the item for a refund if it was misrepresented seems like a logical resolution.

Remind me to never buy anything from you.

If I sold you something as authentic and it wasn't would that be your fault?

After speaking to Kevin over the phone many times, and having many many texts back and forth, there would be no reason to believe he was misrepresenting anything. The prices of the 15 bats were extremely spot on and he came off as trustworthy. In the future, would I buy something like this again without doing research? no way.
In my heart, I believe Kevin was ripped off when he bought the ball originally. And maybe he has too much pride to admit that.

Ball
 

Saw a few responses and read the original post again.
My bad, I just got hooked on phonics....should have spent more time on it before responding.

The sellers response is like well we all get ripped off so I'll rip off you too . Totally inappropriate and BS .

Im not sure what your payment method was but that might give you a few different options with regards to the refund.

Paypal f/f through my AMEX. You might be on to something. Thankfully, I've never had to go through something like this so I don't know whether AMEX might cover me. I assume that because I paid f/f I'm a little screwed?

The seller really needs to make this right.
His future sales depend on iy. If you don't stand behind what you sell, then it is all a crapshoot.
Most folks on here would make it right.
I hope he does too.

In my opinion the sale is fraud. Misrepresentation definitely falls in that category.

Mark Medlin

If he doesn't make this right... He should have "sanctions" put on him..

That's complete bull crap from top to bottom. Keep us posted.

Good luck with the refund

Did Kevin tell you the ball was that old, or did you assume the ball was that old? That part of your story isn't quite clear.

If he told you that, yes you deserve a refund because it was misrepresented. If you assumed that, then you should have done more research.

Hey David,
He told me that. And then when I told him that Brandon said it wasn't from when he said it was, he said that Brandon doesn't know what he is talking about, I to quote his response "Whoever told you that was worth $75 he's totally wrong the ball is not from the 19 thirties there is a later model of the same type with different type faces that is not as early as that one"
To which Brandon replied to me "Comical, "there's a later model that looks the same"...The stuff these guys come up with. Tell him you talked to me, and show him this image. This is not opinion, this is research and fact."

Thanks for the reply. Good luck with your refund. Hopefully he'll see the post and make things right.

I hope you get your money back. I do think you have more protection with American Express although I'm not sure how paying via Paypal F/F will affect it. Here's a link: Link

Thank you for the link.
I will speak to AMEX and see what they can do.

Best,
Jonathan

I have had one transaction with the OP, and communication was flawless as well as the transaction, VERY SOLID BUYER!!!

To pull that to a good buyer -- who purchased a lot of bats in the same transaction -- is very poor form. To put it charitably.

Out the person. Period.

Yes, this needs to be covered too. Occurs everyday at Blowout. Net54 seems to be more mature collectors. More vintage inclinded.

If no one has, and apparently not, I will PM the seller of the ball and alert them of this thread. We need to hear his angle on it.

EDIT: Just sent a PM with a link to this thread. He was last on at 4:51 today.

What a douche of a seller. Yeah, Brandon doesn't know what he's talking about, ok. Has a book on the history of the baseball for no reason I guess lol.


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I second that and it's not just because he is a local that could take a ferry over to my house and bring his baseball bats to motivate a fair deal,'if needed ;).

I hope this gets resolved fairly ASAP.

Def contact AMEX. They usually cover their clients even if its the clients fault (which it isnt in this situation).

Best of luck!

Just a thought, maybe you could post a couple clear scans of the ball and then let a few of the other memorabilia experts on the forum weigh in on this one? Then it wouldn't be a case of simply Kevin's word vs. Brandon's. You'd have a much stronger case here if other's could weigh on whether the ball came from the 1896-1900 era vs. the 20s or 30s.

And yes, if he misrepresented the ball to you, that's a clear case of needing to give you a full refund. He needs to make that right.

The fact that this ball was being purchased in ADDITION to a large number of bats, and I'm assuming that was no small purchase, and the seller is yanking your chain like this? Unethical and in very poor form.

Over the years I've been on 54, I've seen instances where one's reputation can be eternally tarnished, deservedly so, because of a very poor choice. I truly hope the seller makes this right.

I second Brian, I would like to see photos of this ball.

Hey all,
Here are the pics of the ball.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...629_122643.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...629_122651.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...629_122718.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...629_122724.jpg

And finally here is just a baseline PDF that Brandon sent me to clearly illustrate how that logo alone proves the year.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...OGO-DATING.jpg

Brandon also said that he could get into the materials etc but with this case is so clearly evident. Brandon says the ball is Canvas and that it's the 126-1932 equivalent of a ball sold in Dick's Sporting Goods today.

Not sure how much more info I could provide and when I sent Kevin this info, his tune changed to offering me the refund based on what his other ball sells for in October. Some people...

Not to take this off topic, but I thought you could only do Paypal f/f from your bank account, not Amex. Unless it changed?

Regardless, I hope this situation works out for the OP. Never a good strategy for a seller to "pay it forward" in a negative way.

Sh*t I just went back and looked at the transaction and it wasn't f/f.
I pay f/f about 95% of the time and for some reason I guess on this one I didn't.
I'm calling AMEX now to see what my options are.
Thanks for your post as it motivated me to log into my paypal account to double check. Much appreciated.

That's actually a happy accident. Regular PayPal and Amex give more protection. One thing to know: once you file an Amex claim, you can't do anything through PayPal; they automatically take the seller's side. Might be better to go through Paypal, then Amex, if PP doesn't help.

That's good news, that means you can get paypal involved if you don't want to bother with Amex.

EDIT: Sam types faster

I don't understand. He sent you a pdf. that is showing the logo on the ball, is from 1926-1932? Yet, sold it as a pre 1900 ball, for 600 bucks?

I must be missing something.

If it was being advertised as something it wasn't you shouldn't have to do the research.

At least not off of this site. This is the one site that I feel as though I can trust everyone.

The PDF is what Brandon sent me to clearly show that the ball was not pre 1900.
Kevin only offered the "let's see what my other one sells for in October" after I forwarded the PDF to him to prove that the ball was 1926-1932

'the going to the National' is the excuse we will hear now on any deals that fall through when it looked like a deal would go for a certain price but now the National has sprung up so the seller thinks can get more money there...

of course if they dont get that price they still dont come down even though 1000s of people who saw the card there didnt buy it...so just one of those fun fake excuses

OK, yeah, I understand now. Brandon sent you the pdf. Pretty much a closed case.

I really want to hear from the seller.
He probably was lied to on purchase, but he should take the hit on the resale, when shown, it was not as presented.

The fact that you purchased so many items from the seller should have resulted in an immediate refund. I would like to hear his side of the story, but until he replies (if he does) shame on him for such poor customer service.

Jeff

Yeah, but come on. A price was agreed to, then detached because of the NATIONAL?

Really? Not acceptable, as far as I am concerned.

My thoughts exactly. And if that was the case he could have been honest with me about it. If he was lied to, than I do feel bad for him too, but I've clearly shown him that the ball is not what he sold it to me as and he should refund me my money. The total deal was around 2500 USD.

right...it like he trying to 'win' ....he should just refund the money....people dont like being victims..but they should like more being an ethical seller

If the OP is telling the whole story, I'm appalled that no refund has been made. This seems like outright theft.

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The silence (from the seller) is deafening.

Normally, I would agree, but it is the 4th of July weekend. The guy has been on here forever, let's give him a chance to respond.

Is the second ball being taken to the National the same vintage as the one you purchased? If so, and the seller is now aware of the vintage, why would he try to sell it as an older ball at the National?

That's pretty shady! I actually PM'd the seller a few days ago about one of his BST listings, but haven't heard anything back. Thanks for posting this and making us all aware. You def deserve a refund!!!!

Agreed. Paypal claim first. No reason to contact Amex yet.