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I just picked up this Ewell Blackwell with square corners (1949 version).
I was surprised that the card is a pretty flimsy paper stock with a semi-gloss back. Is that consistent with the series or is mine some sort of reprint/fantasy card? http://photos.imageevent.com/allreds...-Blackwell.jpg |
According to the SCD article, here's the checklist:
1. Rex Barney 2. Yogi Berra 3. Ewell Blackwell* 4. Lou Boudreau* 5. Ralph Branca 6. Harry Brecheen* 7. Primo Carnera* 8. Marchel Cerdan 9. Dom DiMaggio 10. Joe DiMaggio 11. Bobby Doerr* 12. Bruce Edwards 13. Bob Elliott* 14. Del Ennis* 15. Bob Feller* 16. Carl Furillo 17. Joe Gordon* 18. Cid Gordon 19. Joe Hatten 20. Gil Hodges 21. Tommy Holmes* 22. Larry Jansen 23. Sheldon Jones 24. Eddie Joost 25. Charlie Keller 26. Ken Keltner* 27. Buddy Kerr 28. Ralph Kiner* 29. Jake LaMotta 30. Johnny Lindell 31. Whitey Lockman 32. Joe Louis* 33. Willard Marshall 34. John Mize* 35. Stan Musial* 36. Andy Pafko* 37. Johnny Pesky* 38. Pee Wee Reese 39. Phil Rizzuto* 40. Jackie Robinson* 41. Aaron Robinson* 42. Johnny Sain* 43. Enos Slaughter* 44. Vern Stephens* 45. Birdie Tebbets 46. Bobby Thomson 47. Johnny Vander Meer 48. Ted Williams* Ewell Blackwell was part of the square corner find, so that appears to be what you have. Not sure about the semi-gloss back, however. The backs are generally just regular paper stock and blank. |
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Hey "Bubba" Can we see a scan of the back of this Blackwell card. TED Z . |
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http://photos.imageevent.com/allreds...ell%20Back.jpg |
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I'm new to vintage. Was wondering why this is not considered Jackie Robinson's rookie card? 1947 with rounded corners - this was around before the leaf set, correct?
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It is a RC, but that doesn't make it popular.
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All six of these 1947 Bond Bread cards can be considered the 1st Major League (rookie) cards issued of these BB players.
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ookiestars.jpg However, the powers to be back in the 1970's overlooked these cards in favor of the Bowman and Leaf issues. TED Z . |
Thanks for the info. I like the idea of getting a "true" rookie card, might have to pick one of these up even if not as popular.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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This thread made me do it...
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Here is an authentic rounded/beveled cornered Ted Williams which I have up n the Bay right now with an inexplicably low grade. They are tough on these guys - i was shooting for about double this and had a big mess in my diaper when i got it back in the mail.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/182184104094...84.m1555.l2649 http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/TlkAAO...XV/s-l1600.jpg |
1940's bond cards
Need your help,, cannot send Bond Pictures (22) for verification. Even when I try to send email it says no no.Been at this for 2days and feel like IQ is 40 Minus that is
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1940's Bond Cards
It almost looks like these rounded corners come from picture holders in those days. Mine all have what looks like scotch tape angled at the corners just like the picture holders. Your thoughts please... thank you, Douglas
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Here are Doolittle's cards
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Douglas I collected these cards back in 1947. I pulled them out of BOND BREAD packages. Their corners were Factory (die cut) rounded. FYI....I'm reprising my initial post here. Quote:
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show us your cards
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Bond Bread Cards 2nd set
Please post the names of the Players 2nd set square corners. thank you, Douglas
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I don't believe this list is correct....Walker Cooper should be on this list.
TED Z |
I believe you, but he isn't on the SCD list. Do you see someone that shouldn't be on the list?
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bond cards
To stir the pot a bit. I have 22 cards of the square corners, which we all believe are the second set. Help my confusion here please. My Vern Stephens card shows him in a St. Louis Browns uniform and he played there in 47. If this card is a later version, would he not be in a Red Sox Suit.
Also, if I post my 22 cards, which 2 are missing or can I assume 2 from the original set? Douglas |
Bond Cards
Following the list, I have cards (12 of them) that belong in the first list, but that cannot be, because they all are square corners, yet they all were purchased in the Late 40's as I am the only owner. 10 of them are correct according to the list. My total cards are 22 Douglas
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I think you need to show a scan of what you have. So you purchased yours in the 1940's?
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Bond pics
Yes, 1947-48 I believe. happy to post these, but the only way I can is one at a time on the printer, another way is from Smart Phone to my email and then to this site. Not to sharp on computer stuff, so if you advise, I will listen. Thank you, douglas
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Another way would be to take a picture, or 2-3, then upload them to your computer then use the "manage attachments" below your new post and upload them to the site. Not sure the age of your computer and if it has a photo option, but there are many on the internet for free to use if you don't? You'll have to ask what other's use/think is the best however. https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid...oading%20sites Good luck. :) |
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list of square corners
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The fact that Stephens appears in a 1947 uniform in a later card is not an anachronism. If he'd been in a Red Sox uni it would disprove an issue date from before the trade.
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As they say, "A picture is worth a thousand words". Since DiMaggio isn't supposed to be available with square corners, maybe you could take a pic of just that card.
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I'm sorry, I just now realized that the cards with the tape marks previously posted were yours. Well, maybe the expert on these, who also collected them when they came out, will have an answer.
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My list in Post #7 applies ONLY to the 1947 BOND BREAD cards (Rounded corners) set. If you go back and read the posts in this thread, you will realize that the Square-cornered set is NOT exactly the same issue. Sorry, I did not respond to you on this earlier, but I was in Cooperstown these past 6 days. TED Z . |
OK, I think I'm a bit lost again. The list I posted was from the SCD article and was supposed to be the Bond Bread 1947 set, and the cards with an * were in the later find of 24 cards square cornered, which may or may not be reprints. I think the unknown for me, is what cards are in the 1949 square cornered set. Is there a checklist for these? Based on the picture of the boxes there should be 48 "Sports Stars" which may include two boxers. Where the movie stars fit into this hasn't been explained.
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Doug,
The "smiley face" is Gil Hodges. |
Thank you, douglas
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I have 25 square corner baseball players and 1 boxer that have the same exact white paper backing and not the cream color. These are originals for sure, cards are identical to my clipped corner ones. Dan
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Thank you, Lee, for reviving this thread back in June (Post #70). I am assuming the question was regarding the Musial in your June auction. I won the card and I’ve read through this thread (and found a lot of useful information), but still have some questions if anybody can help.
I am assuming this card was part of the Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects 4 box set that was made by Aarco Playing Cards (Chicago). How do we know for sure the cards were made in ‘48/’49? Why couldn’t they have been made at the same time as the Bond Bread (’47)? There is one eBay seller that seems to think so… http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-W571-Aa...vip=true&rt=nc I have a few interesting observations between the one on eBay and the one I purchased from Lee. (1) The card on eBay is cropped a little closer than mine. Look at the left and right borders and you can see more of the image on mine. (2) The name on his is more towards the bottom. The name on mins is a little higher up. (3) The back of his card appears to be more white (could be the scan though) and I thought I read that the white backs were considered reprints?? Is his a reprint? It sure looks like it shows its age (nearly 70 years old). Is it possible there were multiple print runs and the formatting changed? If ours are both Sports Star Subjects, why the differences? The one I purchased from Lee http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...y-musial-front The one on eBay http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...ial-ebay-front The back of mine http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...my-musial-back The back of the one on eBay http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...sial-ebay-back Here is a Bond Bread just to compare to. Note that even the Bond Bread is cropped more closely than mine. http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...d-bread-musial |
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The Musial card on ebay is an original (circa 1949) issue. Its white back confirms this. Your Musial card is a reprint (circa ? ? ). Its toned back indicates that this card is not an original Sports Star Subject issued in 1949. Furthermore, the image on the reprint lacks the contrast of the 1949 issue. And, if you compare the thickness of the cardboard of these two cards, the 1949 card will feel thicker than the reprint card. TED Z . |
Ted, thanks! But if mine is a reprint, it has to be a reprint from the original plate, right? Because mine shows more of the image than the one on eBay (and even the Bond Bread for that matter).
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Hi Again,
I have another group of these from another consignor, the backs are very white. From my understanding you believe the white backs to be a reprint. Is there a possibility that another company could have issued these? similar to T206s, T205s, M101-4? Lee |
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Hey guys,
As I've said in my 1st post in this thread, I collected the original Bond Bread cards in the Summer of 1947. Here are some of my original cards...... https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ookiestars.jpg I have an excellent memory of these cards (as they were the first BB cards I collected as an 8-year old kid). Plus, I'm fortunate to have all my original cards from my youth. These Bond Bread (Rounded corners) cards were available from Bond Bread packages to us kids in my neighborhood in 1947 and 1948. My research indicates that circa 1949 the Square versions of these B/W cards were available. These Square cards were never available in our neighborhood. Rounded or Square, these 48-card issues were printed on good quality cardboard which has remained WHITE for almost 70 years. Circa 1980, David Festberg (hobby dealer) discovered in a North Jersey warehouse a box (or boxes) containing 1000's of B/W (Square cornered) cards similar to the above cards. However, 1....there were only 24 (of the 48) subjects in this find. 2....these 24 cards were printed on an inferior cardboard stock, as these cards are thinner than the 1947 and 1949 issues. And, the backs of the cards are "TONED", instead of WHITE. Furthermore, when you compare the original cards (1947 & 1949) with the cards from Festberg's find, it's quite obvious that the original cards have a noticeable B/W contrast. Where the Festberg cards' images are somewhat "faded"....indicative of reprints. Long-time collectors/dealers have arrived at these same observations as I have stated here. TED Z . |
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David,
Your Musial looks very similar to one that belongs to a friend of mine. Attachment 243845 Attachment 243846 His mother purchased them for him through an ad in the NY Times back in the late 80's or early 90's. There are 24 of them and I believe they are the ones Ted is referring to that came from the "Festberg" find. His Musial even has similar looking "Scuff" marks on the front as yours. Attachment 243847 |
Thanks, Ted and Pat. I have no doubt mine is from Festberg discovery, however I do question as to when they were printed. I also contend that they were printed from the original plate. Notice the image on mine and the one Pat showed. You see more of the picture than you do on the Bond Bread or the Sport Star. See the right border, Musial's left foot? You see more of the white sock than you do on the Bond Bread or the Sport Star. Also notice that the bottom border of mine extends further than both of the others. Usually reprints are cropped tighter than the cards they were printed from. Mine is just the opposite. So, I ask this question. Why couldn't mine (the Festberg discovery) have been printed close to the same time that the Bond Bread and Sport Stars were? Maybe they were printed for some purpose and just never got distributed for whatever reason.
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David......I don't know if you have gone thru this lengthy thread and read the interesting posts in it.
Anyhow, I'm reprising Post #49 here since it pertains to our current discussion...... Quote:
Furthermore, your question as to when these cards (that I have referred to as the "reprinted 24") were printed. I'll respond with these three points............. 1.....If (as you say) these reprints' images appear to be larger than the original 1947 & 1949 cards' images, frankly, I don't see more than a 1/64 of an inch increase, if at all. 2.....And, any negligible increase could be explained by the fact that these same images were most likely reprinted from the (late 1940's) Exhibit size cards of this series. So, perhaps the "reprinted 24" cards (Festberg find) were printed from the Exhibits. 3.....I got back into this hobby in the 1970's. And during the 1970's, I was searching for 1947 Bond Bread cards to upgrade my original set of the 44 BB and the 4 Boxers. I never saw any of these "reprinted 24" cards until Festberg revealed his find in the early 1980's. Therefore, my guess is that these reprints were printed in circa 1980-1981. TED Z . |
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Hello everyone, my uncle bought a set of these circa 1988 and we've been wondering for quite some time if these were the actual '47 card set. Alas we now realize that these are most likely not. My question is, are they worth anything and if so, what? Also did anyone else buy from the same people? I've attatched pics of the letter that came with the cards and of the cards themselves. Any info would be much appreciated.
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EDIT: it seems I can only post pictures one at a time.
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mfil5 Your cards on display in Posts #141, 142 & 143 exactly coincide with my list of the 24 cards in the 1980's find by David Festberg. Furthermore the backs of these cards appear to be "toned" (instead of bright white). Therefore, I would conclude that these cards are not from the original 1949 issued set. What are they worth ? If they get graded and the flip identifies them wrongly as "1947 Bond Bread"......it's anyone's guess ? ? Here is the list of the 24 cards in the Festberg find...... Ewell Blackwell Lou Boudreau Harry Brecheen Primo Carnera Bobby Doerr Bob Elliott Del Ennis Bob Feller Joe Gordon Tommy Holmes Ken Keltner Ralph Kiner Joe Louis Johnny Mize Stan Musial Andy Pafko Johnny Pesky Phil Rizzuto Jackie Robinson Aaron Robinson Johnny Sain Enos Slaughter Vern Stephens Ted Williams TED Z . |
Thanks for the response, after doing some digging I found that the guy that my uncle bought them from, Stanley Apfelbaum, was a "controversial" coin dealer before being barred from that and then moved on to sports memorabilia sometime in the 80s. Did anyone else buy from Mr. Apfelbaum's Rookie Card Club in the late 80s? And if so does anyone know if they were legit? The whole story behind these cards is really interesting and I'm just trying to piece all of this together.
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Those pictures of the cards you posted were consolidated into one post. Not sure why it didn't work for you...
It's too bad but there are thousands of stories we hear which are similar to this. Many of the stories are contrived but there are a lot of folks who have been duped and just don't know it yet (generally speaking). btw, great info right there Ted re: Festberg stuff!! Quote:
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Awesome post. Learned a lot!
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Anyone happen to know when the 13 Bond Bread Jackie Robinson cards were issued relative to the original 48 card Bond Bread set with rounded/die cut corners?
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http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171169 |
Have read this thread today with interest. I remember the cards being for sale back in the late 70s in an ad in the Trader Speaks but passed on them as I had a feeling they were NOT originals at the time. Interestingly, I bought about 40 or so 8 x 10 black and white poster-like inserts(?) of the same players and poses at the Saturday Flea market where back in the day you could still make some cool finds.... still have them buried in a box somewhere, I remember Ted Williams, Joe Louis, Primo Carnera, Max Baer, Phil Rizzuto, Stan Musial, Bob Feller and a few others.... they were on a soft paper looked to be from the 40s or 50s..... same poses and signatures..... any info on these? Blank backed .... no manufacturer anywhere. They do have borders on them unlike a lot of the cards Ive seen.
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While I am not sure an exact release date for either can be pinned down, Ted Z will likely be able to confirm whether or not the die-cut / rounded corners set of 44 was available prior to June 1947. It should also be noted that, in addition to both the white facs. auto and the die cut set of 44 card, Jackie did have another card come out in 1947 - the Old Gold Kneeling in Dugout card. That card, however, was distributed in September, 1947. |
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Hi Dan
I recall being in school in 1947 when us kids were comparing the BOND BREAD regular issue (48) cards. So, that timeframe could have been in the Spring of 1947 (or the Fall of 1947). As I have mentioned, the Jackie Robinson cards were never marketed in my town (Hillside, NJ); therefore, I cannot provide a timeline for this issue. TED Z . |
Dan,
It might be worth exploring some old newspapers / publications from 1947 to determine whether it was the fall or spring of '47. I do know that many of the '47 BB set of 44 pictures came from team photo packs from 1947, so it might be worth exploring when those were made available by the teams. I would believe that the cards were distributed after the team photo packs were, since the photo pack images appear to be the source of the BB photos. |
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Hey guys,
I have the 1947 NEW YORK YANKEES team photo pack; and when I get home I'll check it out. My point here is that Joe Gordon is pictured in a Yankees uniform in the 48 card set. However, he was traded for Allie Reynolds to the Indians in Oct 1946. Therefore, this may imply that this set was issued early in 1947. NEW YORK YANKEES -------------------- JOE DiMAGGIO LARRY BERRA JOE GORDON CHARLIE KELLER JOHNNY LINDELL PHIL RIZZUTO AARON ROBINSON TED Z . |
Early 1947 thoughts
Along the lines of Ted's thinking, I have always looked at George Birdie Tebbetts as the "swing factor". He appears in his catcher gear, but I believe is wearing his Detroit uniform underneath (as the cursive D sticks out). Birdie was traded by the Detroit Tigers to the Boston Red Sox for Hal Wagner on May 20, 1947. This adds some credence to the "early 1947" release of the 48-card set.
Dave |
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http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...%20Carnera.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...k%20Cerdan.jpg This Graziano is not one of the bread cards but he was a major personality in the late 1940s: http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...20Graziano.jpg I've also had FB players Johnny Lujack and Doc Blanchard, and Bob Feller. |
YES thank you ExhibitMan those are the ones! Now that you mention, I seem to remember a few football as well.... maybe Glenn Davis? I will post a list of what I have when I dig em out! Thanks again for posting.
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Hi Ted,
Not sure if this is the thread http://www.network54.com/Forum/52660...Navy+Ships+set where you got that picture of the "Navy Ships"box. The post by Troy Kirk shows a box that contains movie star cards with the clipped/rounded corners. You suggested in this thread the corners were clipped/rounded on the baseball issue for inserting with the bread so would you conclude that these movie stars cards may have been distributed the same way and would that make these a 1947 issue as well? Thanks, Greg |
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