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D327 Holsum Bread Cards + The Timing Of The Black Sox Scandal

Posted By: PaulI just posted a picture of my D327 Holsum Bread card of Eddie Cicotte in the "recent pick up" thread. As most of you know, this set has the same format as the E121 American Caramel cards, but some of the players, poses, and team listings are different. Cicotte, for example is found only in the Holsum set, as is Joe Jackson. I'd now like to figure out if this set was issued in 1920 (the last year Jackson and Cicotte played) or 1921 (as listed in the Standard Catalog). I think the key may lie with the history of the Black Sox scandal. I know that the Black Sox were not permanently banished from the game until August 1921. This suggests the cards could have been printed in early 1921, with the expectation that Jackson and Cicotte would be two of the leading stars of the White Sox. But I also know that none of the Black Sox played even a single game in 1921. So, I am guessing that the Black Sox were officially suspended in some fashion before the start of the 1921 season. Unfortunately, with my poor web-searching skills, I haven't been able to confirm this. Do any of you know if the Black Sox were officially suspended before their permanent banishment in August 1921? If so, when did this occur? It seems to me that if the Black Sox were officially out of baseball well before the start of the 1921 season, and not likely to return, then the Holsum Bread Company probably wouldn't have included them in a 1921 set. This would mean that the set was probably issued in 1920. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

D327 Holsum Bread Cards + The Timing Of The Black Sox Scandal

Posted By: scott brockelmanWhen I first acquired a large group of Holsum Bread in the late 90's I discovered several were out of place with the E121 theory, upon checking Collins McCarthy the sets paralleled each other. While I can not help answer your Black Sox ban question, you may want to look at the Collins McCarthy checklist for some leads. Scott

D327 Holsum Bread Cards + The Timing Of The Black Sox Scandal

Posted By: fkwThe Holsum set would be mid 1920 at the earliest. There are 2 different poses of Amos Strunk found with a Holsum back and both show him as a White Sox player (traded to White Sox July 23, 1920). Some have thought there may have been 2 Holsum sets issued, one in mid/late 1920 and one in 1921, but I cant remember all the reason for this.

D327 Holsum Bread Cards + The Timing Of The Black Sox Scandal

Posted By: PaulI wasn't aware of the Strunk card. I guess that leaves three possibilites -- the set was issued after July 23, 1920, two sets were issued, or the set was issued gradually over the course of the year.

D327 Holsum Bread Cards + The Timing Of The Black Sox Scandal

Posted By: fkwFor more info, you might want to try a search for "Holsum" in the old posts. This topic has been talked about a few other times over the years, and Im sure there are some other cards that pinpoint the year of issue. It is an unusual set and I believe more closely related to the 1921 Herpolshiemer and 1921 Standard Biscuit sets, than the E121 or W575-1 sets.

D327 Holsum Bread Cards + The Timing Of The Black Sox Scandal

Posted By: Todd SchultzI believe there are at least two sets of Holsums, and that one parallels e135. This Pinch Thomas card shows him as a Red Sox player, and he did not play for Boston after 1917--finishing his career with the Indians from 1918-1921. <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/taslegal54/21_hbThomas.jpg"> His e121, Henry Johnson and unnumbered Standard Biscuit cards show him with the Indians--same pose. Finally, I have seen Holsum cards with the advertising facing the same as Chester's and facing the other way. Anyone else have any facing the same direction as this Thomas?

D327 Holsum Bread Cards + The Timing Of The Black Sox Scandal

Posted By: fkwI have a 1920-21 Holsum Bancroft (E135 pose) NY NL (traded to NY June 8, 1920) that faces the same direction as the Thomas.

D327 Holsum Bread Cards + The Timing Of The Black Sox Scandal

Posted By: Andy CookHere are my two Strunks as well as the two distinct backs. The difference is in the spacing of the line H Weil Baking Company. Andy <img src="http://members.aol.com/typecard/archive/holsumstrunks.jpg"> <img src="http://members.aol.com/typecard/archive/holsumbacks.jpg">

D327 Holsum Bread Cards + The Timing Of The Black Sox Scandal

Posted By: fkwThanks Andy, thats easy to see. I always knew there were 2 backs but didnt remember the differences. The "H. Weil Baking Company" line is the same width as the Holsum Bread line above it. Matching up the staining, it also looks like that back (with the wide spaced HWBC) is facing the other direction as the Thomas pictured above. Is that true?

D327 Holsum Bread Cards + The Timing Of The Black Sox Scandal

Posted By: Andy CookFrank, yes, the one with the same back as Thomas is oriented similarly. The Strunk with the front with his hands at his sides (same as E135) is oriented opposite. Andy

D327 Holsum Bread Cards + The Timing Of The Black Sox Scandal

Posted By: PaulThat Chester Thomas card really throws a wrinkle into this mess. All the other sets that parallel the Collins McCarthy set are numbered on the front, and none of them have just 80 cards. It's also interesting that on Strunk's two cards his team is described as "Chicago White Sox" on one and "Chicago Americans" on the other. For what its worth, the back of my Cicotte has the words spaced far apart.

D327 Holsum Bread Cards + The Timing Of The Black Sox Scandal

Posted By: fkwIMO the Thomas is just a case where the designers of the set didnt update the team or just made an error. There are a few Holsum cards with errors in the teams listed. Take Ping Bodie for example, his Holsum card says Washington AL, yet never played for Washington. The design of the cards is not like E135 at all, The font is the same as E121 cards. E135 has a bolder serif style font.

D327 Holsum Bread Cards + The Timing Of The Black Sox Scandal

Posted By: T EIn answer to Paul's question, and I am just going from memory in terms of past readings here, I don't think anyone thought the players would receive a lifetime ban. It was not the first time players had been accused of throwing a game, just the most famous. So a company issuing cards would certainly include stars like Jackson and Cicotte in their sets, not realizing that this outcome was going to be quite different.