USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Joe</b><p>Does anybody have any expierience-insight to the grading services PRO and USA or Cetified Express?????<BR><BR>Thanks

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>The point is clear:<BR><BR>Avoid PRO grading like the plague.<BR><BR>USA has no expertise in grading vintage cards -- if you are asking about modern, this is the wrong place to ask (though they too are not on the same level of PSA and SGC)

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Mathewson</b><p>PRO is synonymous with<BR><BR>---TRIMMED CARDS<BR>---GARBAGE<BR>etc.<BR><BR>As is AAA Grading. I've not heard of USA yet. Buy a PRO Card, and you can almost guarantee that if you break it out and try to have an above-board Grading Company grade the same card, it will not pass as it has most likely been trimmed.<BR><BR>There are several scams (some current, some recent, some more distant in the past) that have been discussed on this board.<BR><BR>Buy PRO Graded rubbish at your own risk.

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Joe</b><p>Just trying to get into the vintage arena and trying to find out a few tidbits....How about Beckett and respect in the vintage hobby for them?

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>David</b><p>Joe, <BR><BR>My reccomendation is don't focus on the holder and, instead, find good sellers. The key to good collecting is to find a few base sellers (often including normal collectors) who you know and trust and are knowledgeable. Just finding one or two good sellers will mean a lifetime of good cards and satisfying deals, whether the cards are graded or not. Then you can branch out to others sellers you don't know as you feel neccesary. There are several people on this board who would fit this bill as people you want to buy from. Personally, I have a few sellers who I swear by -- though I'm not a card collector, so their identities won't be of use for you.<BR><BR>At least as you start, avoid high grade cards. Lower grade cards (Vg, VgEx, Ex, etc) are less likely to be altered (trimmed, etc), and any trimming is usually obvious. Also, start off by buying resonably price cards. Save the $500 Ruths and $600 Cobbs for a later date.<BR><BR>While I understand that there is a practical and prudent use for graded cards, I think they are WAY overused, and become a trap for begginers. Many people blindly follow holders like the do the latest fashion craze or hot rock singer. As the saying goes, buy the card not the holder. A good card never goes out of style.<BR><BR>While I do not buy graded cards myself, the most prominant graders of vintage cards are PSA, SGC, BVG (Beckett, don't buy BCCG) and GAI. Avoid others, unless you have special knowledge that they qualified.<BR><BR>Best of luck

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Joe</b><p>I appreciate you time and comments, but here is my concern. I have been looking at a bunch of cards on e-bay and i can't tell what is trimmed not trimmed altered fake...etc...so I figured starting with graded cards would be safe. I am on same page with you as far as graded cards go, not a big fan of them. however, what other security is there??

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Mathewson</b><p>...as to open their own grading/slabbing companies to sell rubbish, Joe.<BR><BR>They will buy Grade 2 or 3 Cards, trim them up nicely so they look all sharp and crisp, and then slab them into their own holders.<BR><BR>It appears that it is possible that a guy may be doing this very thing with AAA Grading. Either as an owner or a neighbor of them in Hawaii. There are far too many coincidences with a couple eBay seller names and AAA Grading. He cuts articles out of old newspapers and magazines with an exacto knife, articles that have photos of Ty Cobb, Christy Mathewson, Babe Ruth, etc, and sell them as Authentic pieces. They sell them often in private auctions so other people cannot warn the bidders that they are buying trash.<BR><BR>The sellers, though, when they try to justify their lame Private Auctions, and their cowardly lameness in hiding their feedback, say things in their auctions to further deceive the bidders...they say things like: This is a private auction to dissuade the "Thrill-Bidders" that are attracted to items of this nature in this grade and to preserve the integrity of the auction for the well-intending bidders. Anyone may bid in a Private Auction, where only the seller views the Bidder's names, thus eliminating the incentive to place bids merely to bolster ones bidding status and BLAH BLAH BLAH...<BR><BR>It's all rubbish. They're trying to rip you off, usually by selling trimmed, altered or otherwise restored items at auction. They don't want you seeing bidders ID's because they don't want the bidders to be warned that they're about to buy toilet paper.<BR><BR>We all have our Grading Companies that we prefer. But, I think we all know the ones to stay WAY away from. And, what sellers to stay away from... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>David</b><p>Joe, I understand where you are coming from. There will no doubt he quibbling on this board and elsewhere as to who's better than who, but the graders I listed are popularly considered to be reliable.

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Brueso</b><p>if you're going to buy graded vintage cards. I think Beckett Vintage is also well regarded. (Beckett has another name they grade under that is a little looser with its standards). People on this board may debate which of these 3 is best, but everyone seems to agree that they are legitimate, and they're generally very picky about what they'll grade, and will reject altered cards. AAA, PRO, and others are regarded dubiously. I can't remember what the final verdict was on GAA, but I think it was thumbs down.

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Dr.Koos</b><p><BR> Just keep in mind to buy what you have a "feel for". Items that interest you, and your interest is maintained in. When buying/bidding on Ebay: Deal with POWER-SELLERS, Bronze through Gold. Deal with Square Trade Members. A seller MUST exhibit impeccable credentials and continued excellence, not just for a month, but over the long haul and keep every winner of each transaction completely satisfied with a success rate of BETTER than 99%. Ebay honors and identifies their elite sellers with this award/title and by dealing with ANY Power seller, your safety factor and transaction approval rate will enjoy it's highest probability of a completely positive outcome.

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>all the power seller titles means is that you are immune from eBay giving you a NARU right away because you are a cash cow for them. Sort of like the NCAA never busting Notre Dame for recruiting vilations.<BR><BR>Also, the quality standards are way too loose for power sellers. They have to keep neg feedback under 2%. What a joke. I know of a number of card dellers that would lose thier status as a power seller if the standard was raised to 1%.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Jay

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Dr.Koos</b><p>...

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Dr.Koos</b><p>...

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Bruce Moreland</b><p>He is right though that "Power Seller" doesn't mean anything. The only difficult part of being a Power Seller is that you have to do a certain amount of volume per month.<BR><BR>The 98% positive feedback requirement is a joke -- when someone goes below this their status isn't immediately revoked, and in any case it should be 99.5% at least. I think there would be a major difference in the "quality" of Power Sellers if the requirements were tightened -- there seems to be a lot of difference between someone who gets 15-20 negatives per thousand positives, and someone who gets 1-5.<BR><BR>bruce<BR>

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Dr.Koos</b><p>MOST GOLD-Power-Sellers HAVE a rating far closer to 1 negative in a thousand transactions (for example...ME) rather than closer to 15 or 20 negatives per thousand.

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Bruce Moreland</b><p>If most of them are good, that is all the more reason to raise the requirements, in order that those few bad ones can't hide behind the Power Seller icon.<BR><BR>As is now, you can be pretty bad and still qualify for the program.<BR><BR>The only thing that realistically gets you kicked out of the program is not making your quota.<BR><BR>bruce<BR>

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>brian parker</b><p>...Broadway Rick and the shill bidding he did in his auctions. Ebay did absolutely nothing in response to all our efforts to point out this incredibly obvious transgression. As a side note, witness that Broadway Rick went to private auctions immediately afterwards. Why should anyone even think powerseller status stands for anything after this example of cash cow favoritism?<BR><BR>Brian

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>Dr.Koos</b><p>..shill bidding. Same seller as a bidder with multiple accounts BUT, I would hope that Ebay WILL take some action, if it looks as clear cut to them as others, admittedly, myself included. I'm not sure if BRSZ is a Gold-Power seller (can't find time stop and search right now) butI DO know of one Gold-Power-Seller who WAS definitely given suspended priviledges for 30 days (Auto parts) when Ebay caught the alternate email/handle, multiple shill bids he placed on his own item which wasn't responding to bids in the way he had hoped). Personally speaking, I have the worst luck in the Universe. If I sit at a gaming table, the dealer won't be able to draw anything less than 2 bricks or a BJ, unless I stand up and leave. But knowing that I get NO help from fate has made me strong and all the wiser as I wouldn't even THINK of attempting to shill bid an item of mine up for auction. Private auction or not, if I did, I have every confidence in Ebay that they'd know about it BEFORE my ENTER key even snapped back (Ebay can see all the bidders in a Private auction)!!!! THAT'S the kind of luck I have. Anyway, the entire concept of shill bidding as a viable option is ridiculous. Set your reserve, your Buy It Now and shilling shouldn't be a necessity . Then again, why risk shilling from a multiple handle anyway when I guess you can just call your Uncle, other family member or friend with an Ebay account, many miles away from your state, and have THEM put in a bid for you rather than risk shilling yourself right off of Ebay.

USA &PRO grading services Anybody???
 

Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>...to fire up Broadway Rick's *ss, but refuses. Powersellers are invulnerable.<BR><br><br>--------------------------------------------<BR> no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions