Make an Offer, Why?
 

I have always been leery towards making offers in the BST because I always figured not much good could come out of it and once again I have proven right.

Scott Levy has some Piedmont Art Stamps in the BST. I was really questioning whether to deal with him after the Brown Old Mill Shenanigans from last year, but I thought I would give him another chance, but that was proven to be a mistake.

Anatomy of a trying to make a deal:

I emailed him inquiring about scans and pricing of cards (non given on BST).

Response: "The listing has been updated. I am too unfamiliar with the issue to price them but I will consider all offers that are presented on a card by card basis."

I gave him prices for one HOFer (same as I recently paid for a similar HOFer on ebay) and all the commons.

Response: "Would you be kind enough to tell me whether there are any scarcities in the set - or is each hard relatively as tough as the others?"

Let me see I give you information about a set know little to nothing about and you want me to give you information on it. I always have loved that from sellers

Scott: "Im guessing the price is in the ballpark on the HOFer. Let me think about it a bit. "

No big deal understandable. No mention of the price I gave for the commons.

The email I get is this: "I got an offer that I could not refuse for the merkle chase Matty and Walsh (couldnt pass up ) The wheat is also on hold. All other cards are available and but likely to be very demanding on all others."

Once again no big deal understandable.

In this process I offered a T206 Carolina bright in possible trade never a mention through the whole process.

At this point I ask for a price on the remaining stamps.

Next email: "Just placed a new listing w/ prices."

Very disappointed, no answer to my inquiry about pricing and just throw the prices up on the BST. Many of these prices are 2 to 3 times what I offered and some totally outrageous with a glorified grades and descriptions added to these cards (these are the most strictly graded item I have ever encountered).

I gave him an offer on the 5 lower grades at this point because the rest were way out of line ($1200 for a raw common :eek:). I find out that 2 were sold right away, so gave him an offer again at the level I have been buying them on ebay and his comment "I'm willing to be flexible on poor commons". Rejected which at this point I really didn't care.

Scott, just has proved once again that they are all about the money and lack serious communication skills. There are so many good sellers out there to buy from and he is not one in my book.

I got this response while typing: "Not really sure why you need to get personal and nasty just because I didn't accept your offer? (In reference to Brown Old Mill situation from last year)

I sell cards as a hobby not a business. I probably had close to ten other people inquire about these cards in some fashion or other - it just easier to throw pricing up there one and for all."

So you would not offer the pricing up to the previous inquirers and just let it be a free for all. Under my book very poor practice.

I will never again make an offer on a card, it just seems to give the seller grounds to were to go. I think many such as this situation you get the "shoot, if he is offering me this it must be going for more". Then you get left high and dry.


Lee

I agree, Lee...making offers sucks...and I rarely will. It's as if sellers are afraid to leave any money on the table. It's part of the deal...I have sold many cards a lot cheaper than I should have...c'est la vie.

I asked for an art stamp to be held for me...pending a back scan...and I believe since I asked for this...the price went up from $60 to $75...still waiting for scan?

real time offer update? someone probably made a $70 offer while you were asking for scans of the $60 card...you better step up your game (and offer) if you want that POOR+ card petey.

I don't know why people rip others on this board for anything else than perfect customer service. It's no big deal; they're just baseball cards. People who sell cards want to get the highest price possible for their cards, and people who buy cards want to get the lowest price. It's all human nature. So Scott didn't reply in the best manner or return scans promptly. As he said, it's just a hobby for him, and he has a life outside baseball cards. He can sell his cards to anyone he wants, whenever he wants. If what he does causes him to get lower prices than what's ideal, that's his business. I've never bought or sold cards to Scott, but he seems pretty reputable in the boards. I don't think he deserves to be ripped like this. The Old Mill incident, so what, he and his dad thought that the shade was slightly different. Other people didn't agree with him. I don't think he was trying to scam people. It was just a difference of opinion. Geez. For myself, another board member, Tony Quinn, asked me about scans and pricing for some of my cards I had on BST eons ago. I got really busy and never got back to him (even to this day). It's been so long since then, I just ended up listing these cards on ebay. I hope that he doesn't start a thread ripping me for my poor customer service on BST. (*Sorry, Tony, didn't mean to bring you into this.*)

Understand your frustration, but don't really see a need to "vent" over someone who is hesitant to sell a card. If he jipped you or something than yeah, you should warn everyone. But publicly calling him out for not selling you a card is a bit over the top, even if he kept raising prices (or whatever happened).

No dog in this fight, but I have dealt with Scott many times and I have had nothing but good experiences.

sounds like he was getting better offers than yours. you expect him to take less?

No biggie Gary, we made some good deals and a couple others fell through. No hard feelings. Like you said, it's just cards. There are more cards than I have money for and plenty go by the wayside all the time. I would never lose sleep over a missed/botched/forgotten deal. I'd rather have good dealings with good people than a card any day. Unless someone has taken your money in a criminal manner, I'm with Gary, let's stop using this board to rip others just because you didn't get what you wanted.
Elvis Costello said it best: "Peace, Love and Understanding" :D

I don't have a dog in this fight, but my personal position is that I will always pass on a "make me an offer" post from a seller. Maybe that works for others. It has never worked for me. If I have a number I can see and work off of, even if I think its high, that's fine. If the seller doesn't seem to know what he/she wants for the card, then I think they need to get that figured out and not depend on me to inform them what their card might be worth. My $.02.

Agree with what Kenny wrote above.
Also a set up to get in a protracted waiting game while better offers are being solicited

Also agree with Kenny's comments.

I ALSO...agree w/Kenny!

Fyi
 

Guys - I get your point on not making offers if a seller is soliciting offers, but isn't that the seller's right to do so if he wants just as it is your right to not make an offer if you want ? I understand your side, but I see the other side of this as well. I typically put a price when I sell on BST, but recently I won an oddball lot with about 20 cards, and about half of them I knew nothing about, so I solicited offers and got plenty of eager offers and I actually accepted the first offer on almost all of them. This may be the exception, but there is another side. "Put yourself in someone else's shoes" and typically you can see the other side of things. My 2 cents -

Sure, it's the seller's right. All we're saying is it's our right to pass on the item.

It seems to me...in this age of immediate...seemingly infinite information available at all times...one should have more resources available than ever...to find enough info to price their cards?

Jeremy,

It is certainly your right to sell your cards however you deem it best, including a "make an offer" solicitation. If that works for you, great. I personally will move on once I read that because IMO, its your obligation to educate yourself about what your cards are worth, not mine. Others may differ and I understand that. Best,

Kenny Cole

Making offers
 

The odds aren't great of course. But I've rec'd low offers and sold at a sizeable loss at times. Also, Ive scored great bargains here on occasion. Never know, unless you try. Sometimes I get no replies and sometimes I neglect to reply, no sweat. It ain't the freakin prom.

This is a game. Buyers shouldn't take rejected or snubbed offers personally. Seller receiving low-ball offers, likewise. Don't let the chickensh!t eat at you. Besides, I think we're men?

As far as the OP's post, surprising... Too bad it had to be dragged out here. The target could have easily been many of us.

While Im at it. To those Ive snubbed or will be snubbed in the future, my apologies :)

Go Sox,
Steve

:)

--- Kenny - I couldn't disagree with you more. (Respectfully disagree :) ) I don't find it my obligation to educate myself about a piece of cardboard that I have no interest in, but would love to sell it to someone that would love to own it. I think the spirit of how a seller deals with the "make an offer" is the key... If someone trully wants to get rid of some cardboard, so be it. The point I am trying to make is it really shouldn't be a big deal to the buyer or seller. Obviously some are happy to make offers and some are not... Let it roll :)

Jeremy,

LOL. all is good. I just won't waste my time trying to buy a card you are attempting to sell with the "make an offer" option. As I said before, if it works for you, great. I'm just not in on that game. Best,

Kenny

I have no dog in this fight either, but I have always lived by the following: Something is worth what someone is willing to pay. Example: If I need a Red T206 Portrait of Ty Cobb in EX condition with a Piedmont 150 back, and I "AGREE" to pay someone $3000 for it, that is what it is "WORTH" to me and my collection (albeit I would never do that) but I feel if a seller wants to use "make me an offer" he/she has the right to get whatever someone "WANTS" to pay what it is worth to "THEM" or move on. Just my .02 :)

Kenny - About 90% of the stuff I sell has a price attached to it, as I believe that to be a easy course of action, but every now and again, if the market has weak info or if I absolutely am fire selling stuff to get rid of it, I just simply ask folks to make an offer. I have sold several items in the last 48 hours by accepting the first email and their offer. I think "make an offer" works for some just fine and it does not have to be a "game" as you suggest. (Of course I get that some make it a game, so to your point sure, I get it) Be well - :)

offers
 

Well, I know what you mean! As for me, I am always a real listener to offers. I find that our 54 brothers are fair and as for me, if you see me selling something, I DO LISTEN TO OFFERS! I try to be realistic and I want my stuff to find a good home, so offer away in my case!
Your Friend,
Bill Hedin

waste of time
 

I think a large % of guys trying to sell cards in BST is a waste of time.
What % ?...I think about 50%..probably more.... This net54 site and its members are for the most part seasoned long time collectors..they know a good deal in a matter of seconds..without looking at a price guide..and when guys throw 30s 40s and even 50s cards out there..more times then not..the price is laughable....the prices they are looking for makes no sense..any sharp collector knows he can find a VGEX 34 Goudey of Cochrane ..in 15 different places....for less money !,
You see it often...a guys makes a post trying to sell a card..and he gets no responses for days..and what does he do... BUMP...then friendly BUMP...yea..do the bump...what was that song...." Aint gonna bump no more with no big fat momma " ! LOL

Those response to "why make an offer" are great for upstanding sellers and that's the way it should, but when you are using the offers to figure out your pricing and then don't even communicate or acknowledge your offers and then sell off cards I was interested in without even checking with me.

As far as outing someone on the board, if Scott didn't have the past poor history I would not mention the seller, but it is just more proof to me that he is all about greed.

As far as me crying that he didn't accept my offer, such is not the case because he never gave me a price or did not acknowledge the fact I either gave him a price or asked him for one, until it was posted the second time around. The initial offer I gave him was $300 for the Walsh, that is when I got the response "I'm guessing the price is in the ballpark on the HOFer. Let me think about it a bit. " Well that card got sold in a group with the Matty, Chase and Merkle for $2000, with the comment I had to take an offer I couldn't refuse. I thought it was very fair since I valued the Matty at $1500 and that left $200 for the Chase and Merkle which was in the ballpark, so I thought we were in the ballpark for working out a deal for the rest.

I asked twice for a price the rest minus a card he had on hold. At that point I got no response until the set prices showed up.

By the way, anyone buying these stamps and getting them graded, don't have any high expectations, then are the toughest graded issue I have ever seen . Any grade VG/EX or above is tough to come by.

As far as the gentleman that thought the Levy's were naive to the fact the back was black, reread the thread those are veteran collectors calling him and I can personally say the Hank Levy was the one about 10 years ago showed me what a brown back looked like. Bottom line is they knew, and if you want to believe them you are not trusted the hobby veterans and that is your loss.

From not knowing anything about the stamps and asking for offers to asking $1200 for a common, just smells of using offers to set the prices. And with no response to asking for prices and not getting anyit really stinks.


Have a good day all,

Lee

In a general sense, I also avoid any "make me an offer" ads.

Just for discussion, I would also point out that on some Boards related to other hobbies with a BST section, a price must be stated. The rationale is that "make me an offer" is really just a dressed-up auction (with a hidden and possibly moving reserve).

Cheers,
Blair

I think dealing with B/S/T is a lot like life in general. Sometimes things go your way but quite often they don't. Sometimes you're in the right place at the right time sometimes your not (sometimes you get the card you want sometimes somebody else does!). If you don't like to make offers, don't participate. I don't think it's the right thing to do to single someone out because of a perceived wrong, in this case Scott. Quite frankly I bought a couple of stamps from him (I don't think I have had any other previous dealing with Scott) and while he may have taken awhile to answer back, ultimately he did. In fact he offered me a price that I found out was extremely reasonable on a stamp and after he figured it out he was still willing to go through with the transaction.

OP has a point
 

I am fairly new to the boards here and I recently "made an offer" to someone here who tried to sell cards w/o showing prices. That seller will remain nameless, but is someone who is familiar with this thread. As soon as I made an offer, I got a response that "based on the following auction results X, Y, Z etc., your offer appears low." So much for not knowing much about the cards...

Lets not pretent that sellers use the "Make me an offer" format because they don't want to educate themselves about the value of the cards- They use this format to leave open the chance that you will offer more than they potentially would have asked for in the first place.

I actually understand both sides of the argument. For me, I am usually buying cards on this site, so if I see a card that I really want with a "make best offer deal", I will do just that and live with it. If I see a card that I am willing to pay $200 for and I have been chasing it for a while, then I will offer $200. If I get it, then great. If I don't, then I feel that somebody else "over paid" for it.
Make your best offer means, "make your best offer"......and live with it.

Some people will "low ball" an offer in hopes of winning it at a great price and when they don't get it, then they become upset. But, sometimes sellers will take all offers and only sell to the highest offer, so it does become like an auction.

But, like an auction, make your "best offer" and live with it........win or lose.

Make an Offer
 

There are certain types of lots that "make an offer" is more appropriate than others. For example, rare/scarce cards, a large mishmash lot w/various years condition, or perhaps a card that you honestly don't know what it's worth are good candidates for "make an offer" sales.

What does not make sense is a when someone has a PSA 6 1967 Topps Mickey Mantle and their is a pretty long track record of it's recorded sale, etc. I prefer the seller should cut to the chase and list their asking price and not utilize "make an offer."

Also, "make an offer" is going to open you up to more communications and therefore as a seller I think you owe it to the people that take the time to respond to their offers even if if you don't like it...They took the time to write you and you owe them a courteous and timely response.

I agree with Blair that make-me-an-offer ads are essentially auctions. I avoid them, unless it is something I absolutely can't live without. Personally, I feel that such ads belong in the "Live Auctions" section of the B/S/T or, better yet, a separate B/S/T section to be created.
Val

It would be helpful if the "make an offer" guys would add a minimum as a starting point.


edit to add: actually I suppose that would make it an auction with a qualifier that the seller won't sell if they don't like the final price.

That is a good idea and I sometimes see it. For example, "Best offer over $100.00"

Im no expert and Ive only been here for a short time, but my experience with Scott has been good. He seems like a pretty good guy.

As far as "make an offer", I tried that and it was a complete mess. It was ridiculous for alot of reasons. Ill never do that again and I dont think anyone else should.

Just my 2 cents.