T206 HOF tiers
 

Over the past few years, we've seen some surges in several T206 hall of famers. I know this discussion has been brought up in the past, but I think some things have changed since then. What would you consider the "tiers" of T206 HOFers if you had to group them by perceived demand. Let's look at it from the standpoint of players (not poses/variations) and exclude the super rarities (e.g. Wagner, Plank, etc..). My initial thought is:

Tier 1 - Ty Cobb
Tier 2 - Walter Johnson, Cy Young
Tier 3 - Mathewson, Speaker
Tier 4 - Lajoie, E. Collins
Tier 5 - M. Brown, E. Walsh, A. Joss, W. Keeler, Z. Wheat, J. Chesbro
Tier 6 - S. Crawford, C. Bender, J. Tinker, J. Evers, F. Chance
Tier 7 - Everyone else

I realize the portraits skew everything a bit. A portrait Lajoie could be considered Tier 3 or a Mathewson portrait in Tier 2. But, if we're just looking at the players and the current conditions, where am I off?

I like
 

what you have compiled....pretty close:)

I'd get rid of Tier 4 and push Eddie Collins down / LaJoie up.

I agree with this and I would merge Tiers 5&6 and just make them all a single Tier 4 and add Bender & Baker (i.e., HOFers that matter). After these guys, you have the Jennings, Wallace, Beckley, J Collins, etc who are HOFers but are (in my opinion) glorified commons.

Personally, I would group Mathewson with Johnson and Young.

I agree that there's no way Eddie Collins belongs in a tier with Lajoie. He's treated as a mid-tier HOFer by the market, despite his great stats. Below are the current SMR prices for a PSA 5 of each T206 card of these players, grouped by the OP's suggested tiers. Clearly Cobb is in a class of his own, followed by Young and WaJo. Matty could arguably go in that second tier as well, and Speaker is not far behind. After that comes Lajoie, then Tinker-Evers-Chance, then (arguably) one tier containing the rest of these players, including Collins. Some other players would also belong in that tier, like Home Run Baker ($450 for a PSA 5, higher than Collins). Of course, SMR prices don't necessarily correspond directly to the market (you could probably double most of them), but they seem to be a reasonably accurate measure of relative value.

Cobb green: 15,000
Cobb red: 5,750
Cobb bat on: 5,750
Cobb bat off: 5,500

Young portrait: 3,500
Young bare hand: 1,950
Young glove: 1,750
WaJo portrait: 3,000
WaJo hands at chest: 1,650

Matty portrait: 3,000
Matty white cap: 1,750
Matty dark cap: 1,350
Speaker: 1,350

Lajoie portrait: 750
Lajoie bat: 625
Lajoie throwing: 550
E. Collins: 425

M. Brown Cubs: 485
M. Brown portrait: 475
M. Brown Chicago: 425
Walsh: 525
Joss portrait: 500
Joss hands at chest: 425
Keeler portrait: 650
Keeler bat: 550
Wheat: 500
Chesbro: 450

Crawford throwing 400
Crawford bat: 375
Bender portrait: 450
Bender trees: 400
Bender no trees: 375
Tinker portrait: 700
Tinker knees: 600
Tinker bat off: 495
Tinker bat on: 495
Evers portrait: 575
Evers Cubs: 515
Evers Chicago: 490
Chance yellow: 575
Chance red: 550
Chance batting: 450

Some good insight and research. Maybe my inclusion of Collins is wishful thinking. I don't understand why he's not more sought after, given his performance and the lone, beautiful red portrait in the T206 set.

I did forget Baker, who seems to garner more attention than players with similar output. Admittedly, his mid-grade examples don't seem to come up as often and they always have big price tags.

LaJoie clearly in front of Speaker at least his portrait is. 750 for psa not even close you can't even get a 4 for 1k these days. Granted the other cards trade for far more than those SMR prices cited but I'd much prefer a LaJoie portrait over the Speaker in PSA 5. Similarly I think that Mathewson portrait rivals the Young Portrait but not the Johnson. I'd say Tier 1 Cobb, Tier 2 Johnson, Tier 3 Mathewson, Young, Tier 4 LaJoie, Speaker.

This.

Other than his fabulous stats, he doesn't have much notoriety. Cobb, Johnson, Mathewson, famous for all sorts of reasons. What highlights in the history of baseball feature Eddie Collins other than not being implicated in the Black Sox scandal?

Tier 1 Cobb
Tier 2 Johnson, Cy Young
Tier 3 Mathewson, LaJoie
Tier 4 Speaker, Collins. (Evers, Tinkers, Brown, Joss Portraits)
Tier 5 Joss, Baker, TEC ect
Tier 6 the rest of the HOFers

I'm not necessarily a huge Collins fan. I can appreciate his success, especially his base-stealing skills well into his 30s. I wasn't arguing that he should be considered along with the top dogs. But, his numbers aren't much different from Lajoie. He just happens to have a single T206 instead of three. My comment was only exploring why he's held in significantly lower regard compared to Lajoie. It's hard to think of two more comparable players.

Lajoie -V- Collins
 

I think the '33 Goudey Lajoie raised his stock in the collecting world.

young should have an up arrow
 

i agree with those who put mathewson/wajo/young on the same tier currently but i think young (at least the portrait) will eventually break upward from mathewson for a couple of reasons:

1. as unbreakable a record as it gets in the most followed pitching category (wins)
2. pitching award creates name recognition among all generations

some consider the wajo portrait with piedmont 150 back a rookie card so it will likely retain its relative value from that.

1. Cobb
2. WaJo, Young
3. Matty
4. Speaker, Lajoie
5. Keeler, Brown, Walsh, Joss, Tinker, Chesbro, Wadell, E. Collins
6. Everyone else

T206
 

what about Jimmy Collins ..is he T 206 era ?

I have to wonder what the SMR prices for these same players will look like a year from now. My own gut tells me flat or declined.

Definitely Waddell would be in a tier higher than common HOFer.

That is a good guess. I think slightly higher except for autographed ones. :eek:

This is how I would rank...or at least how I collect.

1. Cobb
2. a. Johnson b. Mathewson c. Young
3. a. Speaker b. Lajoie
4. a. Brown b. Keeler c. Collins d. Waddell
5. a. Walsh b. Crawford c. Joss
6. Tinker to Evers to Chance
7. Everyone else

If Wagner had been produced in the same numbers as Cobb or others on the list, where would he rank? Equal to Cobb? I would put him no lower than #2, along with Young, Johnson and Matty.

Its hard to separate the allure of the Wagner card from the player. But, Speaker was comparable and his T206 is a rookie. I would give Wagner a slight nod over Speaker, but most consider Speaker a distant tier 3.

My quick take on it...

Tier 1 - Ty Cobb
Tier 2 - Johnson, Matty, Young, Wagner (the player)
Tier 3 - Lajoie, Speaker, Plank (the player)
Tier 4 - E. Collins, M. Brown, Walsh, Joss, Keeler, Waddell
Tier 5 - Crawford, Wheat, Chesbro
Tier 6 - Everyone else (which could be further tiered)

If you look at the 1915 Cracker Jack set, Wagner is 3rd behind Shoeless Joe and Cobb, above Wajo and Matty and about 6 times more valuable than Speaker. If Wagner had 3 or 4 cards they would slot in behind Cobb. If he just had the 1 portrait, he would be about the same as the green Cobb.

I would still argue that Wagner's card values get a significant bump from his T206.

Bill James ranks Honus Wagner as the #2 player of all time. In the original HOF vote, Wagner finished tied for 2nd with Babe Ruth, behind only Cobb. I would argue the t206 Wagner gets a bump because he is one of the greatest players of all time. Otherwise it would be no different than the 1933 Goudey Lajoie or t206 Plank, cards that once comprised the big 3 of the hobby, but have lagged behind cards of better players. Kids in 1909 wanted Cobb and Wagner. That is still the case today.

see the link below.....


https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...mposition/1522

That PSA link is helpful.

Maybe someone who's good with spreadsheets (not me), can re-organize it all by rank? Some insightful take-aways.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...%20HOF%201.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...%20HOF%202.jpg

Ah, thanks. the little button in the upper right did it!

That's one set where the weight should have been adjusted to allow for more than a 10 point max. No way 10 commons should equal the Wagner.

I'm surprised that they give Evers Blue Sky an equal weight with the Young, Matty and Johnson portraits.

Sean- they factor in rarity, besides the desirability of the player. That pose was printed one year, I believe, so it's tougher.

All the Chicago NL players with "Cubs" across chest are scarcer and more desirable than those with "Chicago" running vertically, IMO.

Where is John McGraw? He has 4 cards in the set second only to Hal Chase....

McGraw gets little love when it comes to demand. His cards seem to fall on the lowest tier on average.

delete.....

I will reference the original post again " Let's look at it from the standpoint of players (not poses/variations)"

Anson,
How do you look at it from just the standpoint of players (no poses or variations)with T206s? Poses and variations are a huge part of T206s....If you eliminate these, then what is the criteria exactly?

Yes they are. But, they don't necessarily represent the popularity of collecting a specific player or their accomplishments ranked against their peers. Tinker, Chase, and Chance simply aren't viewed at the same level as the players mentioned in the first few tiers. Sure, portrait poses and variations will spark interest.

If we want to look at specific cards from each player, your point makes a lot of sense. The Lajoie vs. Collins debate is no different than the Speaker vs. Wagner debate. One is certainly more popular than the other. Their performance was much closer than their popularity.