What is Major League Baseball's most unbreakable record?
 

Baseball is, in part, a numbers game. Some of the numbers have become so special that they were as much a part of the game as the players they were synonymous with.

Although the numbers below are no longer records, I believe most of you will associate each of them with a particular player.

755...2,130...4,191. OK, so the last number has apparently been downgraded. I'm sure we all get the idea.

So, please weigh in with your thoughts on what you consider to be the most unbreakable record in baseball.

Thanks, in advance, to everyone.

Best Regards,

Eric

Consecutive games played at 2632

As a side note, I don't put a lot of stock in Wikipedia but it does give a good starting point for research and once had a lot of fun reading through this post:
List of Major League Baseball records considered unbreakable

Great thread, good options listed above...for me, it was between Cy Young's 511 wins and Ripken's Streak. in the end, i went with the 511 wins, just a ridiculous record to approach in today's game.

I'll go with Johnny Vander Meer's back-to-back No Hitters. The thought of someone throwing 3 in a row to break the record is pretty crazy.

There are a bunch of pitching records that will never be broken, just with the way the pitchers are managed today:

Most wins in a season – 59 Old Hoss Radbourn
Most career complete games – 749 Cy Young
Most complete games in a season - 75 Wil White

511 wins.




You basically just have to average 25 victories out of your 32 starts for 20 years, and then it's still not enough.

Unless teams go back to 4, or even 3 man rotations, throw away pitch and innings counts... Then allow their starters to make 10-20 relief appearances in a year (preferably entering in tie games), my vote goes to Cy's 511.

Every single season record held by John Coleman:

48 losses
772 hits allowed
510 runs
291 earned runs

I agree with everything Mark said, 100 percent.

All of those stats are close to being unbreakable. I think the only ones that have a chance to be broken any time soon are the 56 game hit streak, and possibly the 26 game win streak.

I voted for Cy Young although I think that 110 shutouts is equally unbreakable today.

I voted for Cal Jr., but Bill Bergen's lifetime .170 batting average with over 2500 at bats would be hard to "beat!" :D

As someone said above, the game has changed so that many of those pitching marks will be insanely hard to approach.

I'd be very curious to see how votes would shake out if the question were parsed into most unbreakable hitting record, single season record, career record, etc.

Adrian getting to 500 posts in less than six weeks. :eek:

Most career steals of first base....Germany Schaefer - One!

It's so hard to win 300 games anymore, but to get to 512 would be unthinkable unless we allow guys with bionic arms to pitch.

Two come to mind....511 wins and a .366 lifetime average. Will never be broken. Hell nobody has even approached a .400 season since Teddy Ballgame, Cobb did it three times. Those two records are untouchable.

Chesbro
 

While the records listed may never be broken most atleast have the possibility of being broken. No one may break Ripken's record but players will play the required number of games and it is atleast possible to break it.

I doubt anyone bats .366 lifetime but players can be on the field to potentially do it.

I think Chesbro's 41 wins is the most unattainable because pitchers will not have 41 starts to even have a chance to break it. Last 34 starts were the most in MLB.

Chief Wilson's 36 triples in 1912
 

Chief Wilson's 36 triples in 1912 - With today's groomed fields and modern gloves, that record is unassailable.

Cobb's career batting average would be tough, but, barring radical rules change or radical steroids strain, I don't see anyone breaking Cy Young's 511 wins.

I think the only way any of the pitching marks, especially career/single season wins could ever be approached is if a team has a rubber armed knuckleballer and isn't afraid (meaning he's not a bonus baby) to use him on shorter rest than the rest of the staff (Wilbur Wood did this correct?). They'd also probably need to use him out of the bullpen where he'd be able to pick up 4-5 more wins per year.

That said, I still vote Cy's as most unbreakable, and agree Chesbro's 41 /Hoss's 59 (or 60) are unbreakable too.

Records like Ripken's streak, Rose's hits (Ichiro may well approach/pass it combining Japan/MLB meaning it is breakable), Dimaggio's 56 are superhuman.. but given another superhuman performance could all be reached/passed within the current style of today's game. 511/41 or 59/110 would all require fundamental changes in the way the game is played and the way players/pitchers are managed, coupled with superhuman.

Great thread, but I really don't think Bond's should even be listed. Just my opinion....

i think they're all unbeatable!!!!!!!!

+1!

How about Chesbro's 41 wins in a season? I don't think anyone will ever sniff that again either....

Tim

Especially in today's normal 5 man rotation....Even with a 4 man rotation, no chance whatsoever...

Another to add would be breaking Johnny Vander Meer's record of throwing two consecutive no-hitters.

Most career pitching losses, I think Cy Young holds that record as well, no?

Cy Young's win record
Rickey Henderson's stolen base record
Sam Crawford's triple record
Jack Chesbro's single season (modern) record
These all seem to defy any future advances in longevity.

The actual record is 60 wins in one season, by Old Hoss Radbourne. (Some sources still say 59). Chesbro's 41 is the highest after the 19th century.

Cy Young's win record. It's not easy to envision a 30 game winner in one season anymore (it's been 45 years), where 35 starts seems to be the max. Now picture having to win 30 games a season for 17 seasons--and still be one short of Cy. Ain't happening.

Agreed....I would rather seeing Ted Williams batting .400 than Bonds hitting 73 homers. In my opinion, that will be the easiest record to break.

Bobby,

I thought about Rogers Hornsby averaging over .400 across five full seasons as a choice. I personally don't ever see that happening again. Problem is, hitting .400 isn't really a record, so I left Hornsby out.

As for Bonds, I included him because I doubt anyone will hit 73 in a season for a long, long time. Unless, of course, the steroid era has a renaissance or they start building much smaller ballparks.

Great content...from everyone.

Carry on and have fun!

Best Regards,

Eric

Sam Crawford's 309 career triples

Perhaps if someone trained themselves to throw ambidextrously so that they could pitch right handed in the starting rotation one day and left handed a different day and also throw a knuckleball so that they could pitch until they are 50 years old - all of that could drastically increase the odds. In addition this person could spot relieve and pick up more wins. One cut throat way to get additional wins would be to pull the starting pitcher with a lead after pitching 4-2/3 innings thus making that starting pitcher ineligible for the win and thus making the relief pitcher eligible for the win provided he pitch effectively for an inning for so. Mike Marshall made 106 appearances in one season. Pitching with both arms could make that pitcher eligible everyday in theory.

I have to give it to Cy Young, but not for wins. He hurled 749 complete games. That's 30 a year every year for 25 years and over 90% of his decisions. Completely mind blowing if you think about, particularly by today's standards.

And he never had Tommy John surgery!!! Completely mind numbing!!!!

Joe Cleary gets my vote.
 

Lots of great points, but I agree with most that Cy Young's career wins seems as close to impossible as can be. I agee with earlier post that Chesboro's single season mark will stand as well.

Fernando Tatis's two grand slams in one inning...to break it you would have to hit three!:)

My brother was at that game, the lucky duck!!!

With regard to the poll, virtually all of the choices would be nearly impossible to beat, many because of changes in the game. So a better question might be: could any of these accomplishments ever be surpassed? It's possible that none of them will, hence they are all equally difficult.

Germany Schaefer actually stole first base twice, so he did break his own record. And as impressive as Cy Young's records are, when do "modern" records begin? Not that his or Walter's records will ever be broken, but I've always thought it not completely implausible that at some point pitching strategy will revert to that of my youth, when the starting pitcher was expected to go all the way. It seemed to work so well for so many pitchers in the past, and freed up roster spots for specialty utility guys on the bench. Has it been proven that pulling the stud pitchers of the past in the last two or three innings and substituting a "closer" would have saved their teams games? Or is it just that because they don't pitch as much as they did in the old days, now they CAN'T pitch as much? How about injuries? Seems like they're almost all brittle now, whereas before, a 15 to 20 year career was more or less standard for the starters. I wouldn't rule out a reversal at some point, where they start working them more in the minors to prepare for a career more like those before the shorter and shorter starts began in the 1960s or 70s. Or, if they keep going the way they are, the very concept of a "starter" could disappear, and he would just be the first guy handed the ball and expected to go the first two or three innings before the next guy came in.

We're thinking alike Dan. To the point about ambidextrous pitchers.. There was at least one guy pitching in an independent league a few years ago that could use both arms. He had a special glove that fit either hand. He was more geared toward using it to his advantage in various lefty/righty matchup situations, than he was to pitch everyday. It was pretty crazy though.. I think he once had an impasse with a switch hitter, where he'd switch then the hitter would switch, so on. The baseball rules have accounted for switch hitting, but don't think they ever made rules for switch pitching (can you change hands after 2 strikes, etc).

Cy youngs 511 wins no one will ever come close or his loss total or his complete games or even games started. These and many more reasons are the reason why it's the cy young award.

I'll also vote for Sam Crawford's 309 career triples.

John

I voted for Cy Young's record, but I would've also included, as already mentioned, Sam Crawford's career triples record.

Yes, great point on Wilbur Wood. He pitched on two days rest in his prime. As for the ambidextrous pitcher, my guess is that he'd more likely pitch with both arms in one game rather than alternative days so that he would have an advantage on left or right handed batters. I don't know if they made rules for switch pitching or not. It would also require a special glove. It's hard enough to make to the big leagues on one great arm, let alone two.

What about Yankees winning 5 world series in a row

Joe Sewell
 

Joe Sewell had:

4 Ks in 608 at bats for the Indians in 1925
6 Ks in 578 at bats for the Indians in 1926
7 Ks in 569 at bats for the Indians in 1927
4 Ks in 578 at bats for the Indians in 1929
3 Ks in 503 at bats for the Yankees in 1932
4 Ks in 524 at bats for the Yankees in 1933

For his career, he struckout out 114 times in 7132 at bats, the lowest strikeout/at bats ratio in the history of MLB (1 strikeout every 62.6 at bats).

Brock,

I freely admit dropping the ball on that one. 5 WS Championships in a row is much more difficult than the '16 Giants streak.

When originally thinking of posting this thread, I thought of the 1869 Cincinnati Red Stockings and their 57-0 season. However, that was before the current leagues, so I looked for the best MLB substitute.

There is a whole lot of great info posted by everyone. As a numbers guy, I give thanks to all who weighed in here. It is truly appreciated.

Please carry on.

Best Regards,

Eric

Cubs
 

Longest streak without a World Series Championship. 1908 until the sun burns out.

Geno

MLB Unbreakable Records
 

Has to be the Consecutive Games played record by Cal Ripken Jr. No modern day player will play in that many consecutive games...ever.

Hugh Duffy's 1894 season batting average of .440

I've got to think there aren't any rules for switch pitching (as long as he avoids balks), since it's probably only been attempted a handful of times. The guy in the minors did have a special glove and was able to alternate pitch to pitch if he chose. I totally agree, it's greatest use would be for righty/lefty matchups, but could also play havoc with batters mid at bat/managers/switch hitters. Can you imagine how nasty a guy would be if he threw from different angles per side? Say over the top right handed, but sidearm or submarine left handed, and change mid at bat. That could screw a hitter up.

BTW- love the Willie "Pops" Stargell avatar, a true gentleman and N CA baseball great. Anytime I read one of your posts, I just assume you're a nice guy like Stargell.

I don't think anyone will hit home runs in 9 straight games. Donnie Baseball and Griffey each had 8.

Ken Brett hit a home run in 4 consecutive starts. I think that's the pitcher record.

Pete Gray played baseball with 1 arm, to break it you would have to play with no arms. that is the ultimate record that is impossible to break.

Fox Sports Detroit just ran a segment on Doug Fister and the fact that he is ambidextrous and made him sign his name both ways. Seems like he'd be a good candidate but I didnt have the impression he had ever tried it. Also, in case of injury there's another arm to use.

Youngs complete games seems like tougher record than the 511 wins, although neither will be toppped. Cobbs lifetime BA will never have anyone close as well in my opinion. Interesting thread.

My primary objection to Bond's being listed was the steroid taint that is smeared all over him....

No doubt that if a pitcher can throw effectively with both hands could be a hitter's worst nightmare.

Thanks for the kinds words. I enjoy your insightful posts also.

What about a list of modern records? I know pretty much all the pre-war ones are untouchable because of the changes in the modern game. Just be curious to what people would think about the modern records.

An obscure home run record that I doubt will ever be broken is the record for consecutive pinch hit homers, which is 3. Lee Lacy first accomplished this feat on 1978, and in 1979 this feat was duplicated by this player (when he played for the Phillies), who was my favorite player with the expansion Washington Senators of the late 1960s:
Val

Breaking Ryan's career 7 no-no's

There is a rule MiLB created because of Pat Venditte, I imagine that if he came to the Majors the rule would have to be adopted by MLB.

There have been a couple of other switch pitchers but the only one that anyone here may remember would be Greg Harris

You know, I think that I could break this record if only I could get an MLB team to let me pitch for one inning. Maybe the Astros in late August ....

I wasn't aware of Harris nor Venditte pitching both ways. Thanks for posting that information.

There were four 19th century guys too (The most well known was Tony Mullane), but I would have to assume it was easier with way pitching was done at that time.

I had just recently looked into this because a few months ago I was having a conversation with a coworker about how great it would be if someone were to be a switch pitcher (the night before I had practiced throwing with my left hand). He said it would be impossible... so I had to prove him wrong :D.

Awesome! That's the guy (Venditte).. I didn't know his name but remember that crazy at bat that would never end. And base baseball had to go make a rule and take all the fun out of it.

94 over the top right handed, 85 side arm left handed.. nastiness

Eddie Layton played for the N.Y. Yankees, the N.Y Knicks and the N.Y. Rangers. Impossible record to break, so what if he was the organist (Gladys Gooding only played for the Knicks and Rangers).

I find scoring 11 runs in one inning on (1) one hit, impressive. The "Go-Go Sox".

I'm guessing Mr. Dave Winfield could have done similar had he chosen. He was drafted first overall in baseball as an outfielder, but was one of, if not the best pitcher in college baseball.. and was also drafted by NBA/ABA basketball teams and the Vikings in the NFL (Vikes drafted on his potential only.. like when Rockies took Michael Vick).

Bummer in today's world of travel teams/AAU that there's so much more specialization, and so many the multi sport freaks get discouraged/weeded out earlier.. though there's still a fair amount of college football/baseball players running around.

Radbourn. If somebody in the near future wins more than 59 in a season, I'd feel pretty confident that Cy Young's career number would be in jeopardy. The best season someone can realistically have in today's game would get him about half way to Radbourn, but it's possible there's some kid out there today who will, within a generation, be universally recognized as the greatest pitcher in MLB history. If that kid ends up pitching for 20 or more healthy seasons and has the good fortune to play for teams with very good offense, he'd get pretty close to 511. It's a long-shot definitely, but with the way we play the game now, not nearly as much of a long-shot as winning more than 59 in a single season.

Think of it this way. Which MLB pitcher has the best shot to win 60 games this season? I don't know the name, but it would almost certainly have to be a middle reliever for some team that has weak starting pitching and a ferociously good offense. (A starting pitcher, even one who literally pitched a perfect game every 5 days, couldn't get anywhere close.) Now think about how unlikely it is that a middle reliever in that situation, even a very good one, would even win 10 games. Then think about how rare it is for a great pitcher to be used as a middle reliever. So yeah, Radbourn.

His cap size record could be unbreakable

Kevin,

I see your point and completely agree that the record is tainted. I wonder if MLB will ever put an asterisk next to 73...and 762, for that matter.

Having said that, I hope you'll agree that leaving Bonds in this poll makes more sense than me including Frank Baker in my last one.

The board is weighing in with great content, and it has been a pleasure to hear everyone's thoughts. I am rather surprised at one thing, though.

Nobody seems to have mentioned Eddie Gaedel. :)

Best Regards,

Eric

I think the Cardinal's reliever, Mitchell Boggs might have a chance at this one.

I agree. If most are never to be broken, how can you pick a least likely? :)

How about Connie Mack's length of time and Games, Won - Loss record as a Manager?

David

Chase Wright gave up 4 home runs in a row. Has that ever happened before? Hard to beat that one.

25 victories a year for 20 years and you still havent reached Cy Youngs victory total, thats gotta be the one!!

How about adding a twist. Most consecutive games played for the same team? Even less likely to happen (as remote as it already is).

56-game Hitting Streak
 

The way the game is played nowadays, I do not think Joe D's exciting 56-game streak will be broken. Furthermore, I will venture to say that it will not
even be approached.

Another single-season record that may never be broken is one that was achieved the same year Joe did his streak, 1941......Ted Williams batting .406

Most good-hitting ballplayers don't WALK much any more. To hit for a .400 BA you have to do a lot of Walking. In fact Ted had 147 WALKS in 1941.....
which reduced his official AB's to only 456.


http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/d...lltwjd1943.jpg


TED Z