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-   -   Autograph sub-forum? (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=150074)

Leon 04-16-2012 07:38 AM

Autograph sub-forum?
 
It has been brought to my attention that many of our memorabilia folks are not wanting to post, or have quit posting, due to the autograph folks posting and bickering, fighting, arguing etc. I feel the goal for me is to make this place as amenable for all members as possible, while keeping the forum(s) focus's in mind. To that end I want to discuss the good and bad of having a separate sub forum for autographs. What I wouldn't want to do is create one and then have fewer threads and posts in both the memorabilia and autograph forums. In general I don''t like splitting the forums up but it just might make sense for autographs. Another moderator brought this up to me and I don't want to take credit for the discussion or possible change. I just want as friendly a place as possible (understanding the nature of collecting and the impossibility of pure happiness on a chat board :)) Thoughts?

murphusa 04-16-2012 07:47 AM

for the most part I could care less about the autographs. I come here to see the good stuff

smotan_02 04-16-2012 07:47 AM

I really enjoyed the "Good news" autograph thread as I felt it progressed our hobby and allowed us to see some great items. Perhaps a test compromise is that if people want to post a "Is this auto good" thread, they have a separate forum for those. Those post seem to create the most drama.

barrysloate 04-16-2012 07:48 AM

Great idea, and I'm all for splitting them into two groups. The autograph people have taken over the memorabilia side, and the same posters have the same fights almost every day. I know I don't have to read these threads but I still like the idea.

mschwade 04-16-2012 08:00 AM

To be honest, I only collect autographs and I've stopped posting as much because of the things you said Leon.

Rob D. 04-16-2012 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate (Post 984411)
Great idea, and I'm all for splitting them into two groups. The autograph people have taken over the memorabilia side, and the same posters have the same fights almost every day. I know I don't have to read these threads but I still like the idea.

Agreed.

Bugsy 04-16-2012 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate (Post 984411)
Great idea, and I'm all for splitting them into two groups. The autograph people have taken over the memorabilia side, and the same posters have the same fights almost every day. I know I don't have to read these threads but I still like the idea.

Perfectly said.

carrigansghost 04-16-2012 08:26 AM

I'm all for splitting. I really enjoy some of the memorabilia that happen to be autographed, i.e. the 1931 baseball lighter I found a few months ago, but tire of the constant "Is this good" threads. I've often thought some of the very knowledgeable auto experts should be charging for their opinions, set them up a paypal account and charge for a quick opinion.

Just my uneducated opinion.

Rawn

slidekellyslide 04-16-2012 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smotan_02 (Post 984410)
I really enjoyed the "Good news" autograph thread as I felt it progressed our hobby and allowed us to see some great items. Perhaps a test compromise is that if people want to post a "Is this auto good" thread, they have a separate forum for those. Those post seem to create the most drama.

Unfortunately there was behind the scenes drama in that thread...luckily it didn't spill onto the board. :(

slidekellyslide 04-16-2012 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carrigansghost (Post 984426)
I'm all for splitting. I really enjoy some of the memorabilia that happen to be autographed, i.e. the 1931 baseball lighter I found a few months ago, but tire of the constant "Is this good" threads. I've often thought some of the very knowledgeable auto experts should be charging for their opinions, set them up a paypal account and charge for a quick opinion.

Just my uneducated opinion.

Rawn

I've thought the same thing...and I wonder if one of our resident autograph experts stopped posting because of those types of threads popping up every day.

Leon 04-16-2012 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschwade (Post 984412)
To be honest, I only collect autographs and I've stopped posting as much because of the things you said Leon.

Well, maybe the nature of autograph collecting is that there are more squabbles? I don't collect autographs, though have a few through ordinary sports collecting, and only read some of what goes on, on this board. This comment above is a bit of a conundrum though. If someone only collects autographs and an autograph sub forum wouldn't help, then I am not sure there would be an answer for that.

btw, I am definitely leaning towards giving a separate forum a try...we have been over this before but have never tried one. We could revert back to what we have now, if it didn't work out. This thread is just to make as sure as possible there isn't some unforeseen issue (I can't think of)..

sayhey24 04-16-2012 08:40 AM

Of the first twelve threads on the memorabilia board right now, nine of them are about autographs.

I would agree that memorabilia is being pushed aside and that many memorabilia collectors have given up both posting and trying to sort through all the at times inane autograph threads.

I'm all for a separate sub-forum -- I think you would then see a resurgence of memorabilia threads.

Greg

mschwade 04-16-2012 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 984429)
Well, maybe the nature of autograph collecting is that there are more squabbles? I don't collect autographs, though have a few through ordinary sports collecting, and only read some of what goes on, on this board. This comment above is a bit of a conundrum though. If someone only collects autographs and an autograph sub forum wouldn't help, then I am not sure there would be an answer for that.

It's not me, the autograph collector, you are trying to help though. You're trying to help the memorabilia people that are turned off by the autograph collectors that are pissing on their forum. I think it's a good idea to separate them, and needs to be done, imo. I also thought a third forum where you can ask "Is this good?" was a better idea because that is how the pissing matches start. I've seen people ask if cardboard signs or candy wrappers were good too, so you can combine it for all opinions. Just my .02

Scott Garner 04-16-2012 08:41 AM

I agree with the idea of splitting, FWIW.

barrysloate 04-16-2012 08:42 AM

If I recall we once discussed memorabilia and cards in the same forum, and when we split them up it worked perfectly. I can't imagine having a separate autograph section wouldn't work.

yanks12025 04-16-2012 08:44 AM

Arnt autographs considered memorabilia?

HBroll 04-16-2012 08:50 AM

I agree with what Barry said in both his posts. My vote is to split them up.

slidekellyslide 04-16-2012 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yanks12025 (Post 984436)
Arnt autographs considered memorabilia?

Couldn't cards be considered memorabilia? There's nothing wrong with separate forums for different categories.

travrosty 04-16-2012 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 984429)
Well, maybe the nature of autograph collecting is that there are more squabbles? I don't collect autographs, though have a few through ordinary sports collecting, and only read some of what goes on, on this board. This comment above is a bit of a conundrum though. If someone only collects autographs and an autograph sub forum wouldn't help, then I am not sure there would be an answer for that.

btw, I am definitely leaning towards giving a separate forum a try...we have been over this before but have never tried one. We could revert back to what we have now, if it didn't work out. This thread is just to make as sure as possible there isn't some unforeseen issue (I can't think of)..



Autographs are much more contentious and prone to arguments because a lot of the time, (a majority of the time) the focus is on authenticity, which leads to arguments, which happens with memorabilia and cards a lot less.

I think if you split them or not, either way would work, it just means one more click, i don;t think people are having a hard time now figuring out if a thread is about an autograph or not, they can just skip it like i skip a t205 or hassan triple threads if i am a t206 collector exclusively.

i can't figure out how people know there are autograph arguments on these threads if they didnt read them? But either way if it is split or not I don't think it's a huge deal. If most people want it split, you should try it.

thecatspajamas 04-16-2012 09:11 AM

Add my vote to those wanting to split off autographs into something separate.

If keeping up the number of posts is a concern, just make it clear that all sports autos are fair game, or even open it up further to historical and entertainment autographs.

I think once the dust has settled, the number of posts in the Memorabilia forum will come back up naturally.

Leon, why not run a poll for a week or so, and see if the results are as overwhelmingly one-sided as they appear to be from these posts?

smotan_02 04-16-2012 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas (Post 984445)

Leon, why not run a poll for a week or so, and see if the results are as overwhelmingly one-sided as they appear to be from these posts?

Agree

bender07 04-16-2012 09:18 AM

I'm for two new forums. One centered around "Is this good?" and another for autograph discussion/show-off.

Leon 04-16-2012 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas (Post 984445)
Add my vote to those wanting to split off autographs into something separate.

If keeping up the number of posts is a concern, just make it clear that all sports autos are fair game, or even open it up further to historical and entertainment autographs.

I think once the dust has settled, the number of posts in the Memorabilia forum will come back up naturally.

Leon, why not run a poll for a week or so, and see if the results are as overwhelmingly one-sided as they appear to be from these posts?

Hey Lance
I appreciate your, and everyone else's, thoughts so far. No need to do a formal poll, imo, this thread is doing fine. It is in fact overwhelming so far...which, as most know, is one of my criteria for change. I really do appreciate all of the feedback. I just hope that if a sub forum is made, the other memorabilia guys/girls will start some new and informative threads. I have also received one private email in support of the new sub forum, among other suggestions :).

Leon 04-16-2012 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bender07 (Post 984453)
I'm for two new forums. One centered around "Is this good?" and another for autograph discussion/show-off.

I can't imagine making 2 more forums immediately.....maybe we try one first and see how that goes...and if it is still overwhelming, we discuss at that time. Baby steps forward.......

bn2cardz 04-16-2012 09:21 AM

I don't read a lot of the memorabilia side of the board because of all of the autograph squabbles, but even if they were split I more than likely wouldn't post as I don't have a lot to add, just a lot to learn.

...but while we are at it can we also separate t206 collectors from the rest of the card collectors?:p

frankbmd 04-16-2012 09:30 AM

Cash for quickies
 
I've been guilty of being a "Is it good" thread starter. TPA for stuff I will not sell anyway doesn't make sense for me. I would also have no problem with paying for an internet quickie opinion (Good idea). How many people should be giving those opinions is another question I cannot answer? This activity should be split into a new thread.

Memorabilia that has general interest and happens to be autographed as well is another issue and something we would all like to see. i would let this type of item stay in the Memorabilia section.

I suppose a "Rant and Bickering Forum" could be started for any thread anywhere that devolves into this activity. The Moderators could act like the panel on "The Gong Show" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xERBJPiYjjA), and bump these threads to a location where they can continue unabated.;)

mr2686 04-16-2012 10:16 AM

If I had a vote, I'd vote to split them.

toyman55 04-16-2012 10:58 AM

great idea
 
I am all for this Leon. I started collecting autographs in 2000 when coa's were given to any item. I value the opinions of others on whether items I bought in the past were real or fake as well as feelings on items I may currently want to buy.
thanks for all your hard work.

Shale

springpin 04-16-2012 11:27 AM

I collect baseball memorabilia for the fun, if not joy, it brings me. There appears to be no fun, and certainly no joy at all, with the autograph hobbyists. I am of the opinion they have been exploited by fraudulent items in the past, and now they are "on a mission" to call everyone's attention to the perils of autographs in the market. They have gone from sincere hobbyists to zealous vigilantes, with the subplot of who deserves to be their leader. I have been burned in the past with some purchases I elected to make, as I believe we all have, but those episodes have not bitterly corroded my outlook toward the hobby. If these folks need a carthartic release, let them have their own forum. It can also serve as their support group. Other areas of collecting don't seem to need one.

thenavarro 04-16-2012 11:35 AM

I've always been of the persuasion of just keep them (memorabilia and autographs) all in one forum, as to me, they are one and the same.

HOWEVER, if it makes the viewing and enjoyment experience better for a few people, then it won't take away from my enjoyment of the board by having two forums. As a matter of fact, it will probably add to my enjoyment of the forums, because I won't be compelled by human curiosity to read anymore of the "we need another forum for autographs" or "I can't simply skip over those threads to find ones I like", or variations thereof that crop up from time to time.

So please add me to the ledger as a plus vote for having two forums. One for autographs, and one for memorabilia sans autographs.

Mike

chaddurbin 04-16-2012 11:41 AM

2 forums...one memorabilia, and the other psa/jsa/fde bashings.

perezfan 04-16-2012 11:43 AM

I collect general memorabilia as well as autographed pieces... and I agree the proposed split has now become a necessity. I would like to see the Memorabilia Forum return to the healty/positive place that it was as recently as a year or two ago.

Thanks Leon, for soliciting our input :)

drc 04-16-2012 11:49 AM

I have nothing against a split.

However, in defense of the autograph posters, I don't know that it's so much that there are so many autograph threads as there are so few memorabilia threads. The lopsidedness is as much due to the latter as the former.

But, as autographs seems to be such a popular topic, they may deserve their own category anyway.

I also add that I find many of the autograph threads to be interesting. I read them. I'm not bashing the autograph folks. The autographs threads have added a new and interesting dimension to Net54.

Leon might wish to ask someone like Richard Simon to be the Net54 advisor on autograph/autograph forum topics, so Leon can have someone to go to when autograph/forum issues and questions arise. Richard's a professional, he might like to be able to put on his resume that he's an advisor to Net54 which is a well known site.

P.s. Leon, the cord to my digital camera a few days ago, but I'll get the pic to you today.

David Atkatz 04-16-2012 12:05 PM

I, too, would like to see a split. That way, we autograph collectors will no longer have to see our hobby demeaned with comments such as "That's why I would never collect autographs." (i.e., "I'm way too smart for that.")

There are some among us who, perhaps, feel a bit closer to the game when actually holding a baseball that Babe Ruth, or Ty Cobb, or... actually held. For us, collecting tchotchkes that have never been closer to a ballplayer or stadium than, say, my toaster, doesn't quite cut it.

drc 04-16-2012 12:07 PM

For the record, I'm not close to an expert but I've collected autographs since I was a kid (TTM). I like autographs and think it's a interesting area.

David Atkatz 04-16-2012 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drc (Post 984504)
Leon might wish to ask someone like Richard Simon to be the Net54 advisor on autograph/autograph forum topics, so Leon can have someone to go to when autograph/forum issues and questions arise.

Kind of a conflict of interest (since Richard is involved in many an argument here himself), wouldn't you say?

Leon 04-16-2012 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Atkatz (Post 984516)
Kind of a conflict of interest (since Richard is involved in many an argument here himself), wouldn't you say?

Dan Bre.tta is the moderator for most of the memorabilia stuff. Unless he doesn't want to oversee it then he will also check out the Autograph stuff. Then if there is a judgment call I will be happy to help. That being said, he and I are also collectors first and foremost so we can get into little tiffs ourselves :). Such is the life of the board and being avid collectors. Thanks for all the feedback. As soon as I figure out how to make a sub forum in the memorabilia section, it will be done. I am sure it will be today at some point.

mschwade 04-16-2012 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 984519)
Dan Bre.tta is the moderator for most of the memorabilia stuff. Unless he doesn't want to oversee it then he will also check out the Autograph stuff. Then if there is a judgment call I will be happy to help. That being said, he and I are also collectors first and foremost so we can get into little tiffs ourselves :). Such is the life of the board and being avid collectors. Thanks for all the feedback. As soon as I figure out how to make a sub forum in the memorabilia section, it will be done. I am sure it will be today at some point.

Thanks Leon, hoping this works out for the best and has a positive impact on all involved.

Leon 04-16-2012 12:21 PM

As I try making this you guys will see some weird structure. Just hang in there a few minutes and we should be all set with the new sub forum. I want to have the autographs section directly under the main memorabilia one....just trying to figure it out.

Leon 04-16-2012 12:59 PM

hmmm
 
Well, it looks as though it is going to take some time to figure out how to get an autograph forum BELOW the memorabilia one. Is it an issue if we/I make the autograph one ABOVE the memorabilia one until that gets figured out (assuming it will be able to be done, but not positive)?

I will open that forum as soon as I get a few peoples responses....

David Atkatz 04-16-2012 01:02 PM

It seems just fine, Leon.

mschwade 04-16-2012 01:10 PM

I see it Leon

Leon 04-16-2012 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Atkatz (Post 984547)
It seems just fine, Leon.

Thanks David. I feel the need for the forum outweighs the need for it to be below the regular one so went a head and opened it. Any new autograph threads should generally be in that forum. Hopefully I/we can get the display order figured out but we never did over on the post war side vis a vis the Watercooler and sports talk sections...and they are all doing fine.

HexsHeroes 04-16-2012 01:19 PM

Count me in . . .
 
.


. . . as a supporter for the split. Currently, I am primarily an autograph collector, but I have a handful of vintage memorabilia items, use to actively collect old cardboard, and love most things related to vintage baseball. So, for me, the split is just another stop on getting my daily fix. Vintage baseball cards, memorabilia, or autographs; I love them all.

Mr. Zipper 04-16-2012 01:20 PM

As an autograph collector I also enjoy browsing and learning from threads pertaining to non-autographed memorabilia. With two forums I'll be less likely to casually peruse the other stuff. But if that's what people want...

The occasional snide and condescending remarks about those [fill in the blank] autograph collectors do not go unnoticed. However, I've been on the Interweb long enough to know to not let people I don't know and who don't know me bother me. :D

Leon 04-16-2012 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper (Post 984558)
As an autograph collector I also enjoy browsing and learning from threads pertaining to non-autographed memorabilia. With two forums I'll be less likely to casually peruse the other stuff. But if that's what people want...

The occasional snide and condescending remarks about those [fill in the blank] autograph collectors do not go unnoticed. However, I've been on the Interweb long enough to know to not let people I don't know and who don't know me bother me. :D

And you realize this is, from what I can tell, just about the only post that is not for the split. An additional click isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things since the benefits will most likely outweigh the few negatives. If all hell breaks loose (other than the regularly schedules disagreements and bickering) we can revert back, but I don't see that happening. It is obviously not the intention to have fewer folks interact on either forum, in fact, that is the exact opposite effect we hope to have.

Bilko G 04-16-2012 03:37 PM

Myself personally, im never in favor of splitting up the community into different sub-forums. Whenever possible, i like it best to keep things together. What happens is everyone has their "main" board on this forum that they go to the most and basically i think sub-forums just split the community and then what happens is each board will get less traffic and less new threads.

just my opinion...

Bilko G 04-16-2012 03:41 PM

What could be done, if it is possible, have a special icon like a "Pen" that the thread starter could post so you can see this thread is about autographs. So then if someone doesn't like autographs they will see the pen icon and then they don't have to read that particular thread. Can even Put say *AUTO* at the start of thread titles if the icon can not happen.

just an idea...

Bilko G 04-16-2012 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas (Post 984445)

If keeping up the number of posts is a concern, just make it clear that all sports autos are fair game, or even open it up further to historical and entertainment autographs.


If the autograph sub-forum is gonna happen i like this idea. Maybe we can start talking about autographs from entertainment, politics, historical figures as well? Might get a bunch of new members too.

Edited to add- I see you guys talking about other Moderators. I was curious, other than Leon, who is the other Moderators at Site 54??

Leon 04-16-2012 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilko G (Post 984611)
If the autograph sub-forum is gonna happen i like this idea. Maybe we can start talking about autographs from entertainment, politics, historical figures as well? Might get a bunch of new members too.

Edited to add- I see you guys talking about other Moderators. I was curious, other than Leon, who is the other Moderators at Site 54??

I pick and choose words in describing the forums carefully most times. I used the word on this and the autograph forum "primarily". That way there is some wiggle room for later sports stuff and non sports too. As for the other moderators, Dan Bre.tta, Brian Mc.Queen, and Matt Wei.der are all moderators too. best regards


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