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-   -   What is the most rare vintage baseball autograph? (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=246687)

Chuck9788 10-25-2017 02:55 PM

What is the most rare vintage baseball autograph?
 
is there any vintage players that did not or rarely signed autographs? Which is the most difficult autographs to find?

trdcrdkid 10-25-2017 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck9788 (Post 1713872)
is there any vintage players that did not or rarely signed autographs? Which is the most difficult autographs to find?

Guys who died early are tougher to find autographs of, and the longer ago they lived, the rarer they tend to be. I'm not an autograph guy, but I understand that Addie Joss is very tough, with only a couple of autographs known. 19th century HOFers are going to be tough too, especially those who died young such as Kelly and Radbourn.

Jersey City Giants 10-25-2017 03:03 PM

somewhere out there are a few items I signed as batboy and one ball I signed for a little girl in college! Now those would be rare! LOL

barrysloate 10-25-2017 03:10 PM

HOFer George Stacey Davis is extremely rare.

the-illini 10-25-2017 03:18 PM

Not an autograph guy but King Kelly, Addie Joss, Rube Waddell, Ed Delahanty, Ross Youngs all would have to be at or near the top of the list in terms of difficult signatures to find an authentic example of - that doesn't factor in Negro league members, many of whom I am sure are almost impossible to find.

edjs 10-25-2017 03:21 PM

I think your question would be very tough to answer. I would suppose there are numerous guys that played ball that didn't get asked for their autograph all that often. I have a Charlie Deal card being authenticated right now, I wouldn't think there are many of those floating about. I also have a Claude Berry auto, again, I wouldn't expect to see many of those. I also posted a T4 Obak (well, part of one anyway) that has Doc Moskiman written on the front, I have asked around, but no one has anything to compare it to for me to see if he wrote it or not. So there could be a ton of guys that just didn't get asked or were not that great and their auto wasn't kept, and would therefore be rare.

Jobu 10-25-2017 03:32 PM

Lots of good names mentioned thus far. I think Joe Jackson makes the list of difficult signatures.

I am not really an autograph collector, but my toughest is Carl Lundgren (died 1934), which is posted in another thread.

OldOriole 10-25-2017 03:48 PM

Rare Autographs
 
In terms of rare autographs on baseball cards, I am aware of a Hugh Duffy signed N300 Mayo. I was the underbidder to an N54 board member a number of years ago. I can't imagine there's many of those floating around.

slipk1068 10-25-2017 03:55 PM

I always thought Rube Foster was tough. Addie Joss too although I am not an autograph guy.

pokerplyr80 10-25-2017 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jobu (Post 1713891)
Lots of good names mentioned thus far. I think Joe Jackson makes the list of difficult signatures.

I am not really an autograph collector, but my toughest is Carl Lundgren (died 1934), which is posted in another thread.

That is the name that came to mind when I saw the title. I'm sure there are plenty of others but I think he's the biggest name who's almost impossible to find. I heard it was because he was illiterate and didn't want or really even know how to sign.

CMIZ5290 10-25-2017 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1713921)
That is the name that came to mind when I saw the title. I'm sure there are plenty of others but I think he's the biggest name who's almost impossible to find. I heard it was because he was illiterate and didn't want or really even know how to sign.

Joss and Waddell....

btcarfagno 10-25-2017 05:38 PM

There are literally hundreds if not thousands of guys who played in the majors for whom there is not a single known example. Guys who played in the 1800's. Died in the 1800's. Played before 1920 in 10 games or less and died young.

If the OP could narrow the question down a bit in terms of HOF or by decade or whatever it would elicit more specific responses.

Tom C

Bored5000 10-25-2017 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck9788 (Post 1713872)
is there any vintage players that did not or rarely signed autographs?

Nope. They all signed for Coach's Corner. ;)

r0ck8ott0m 10-25-2017 10:29 PM

I’m assuming the question would allude to well known, “popular” or HOF guys. The most expensive and hardest to find is a Josh Gibson. He too was illiterate and I am not sure there are more than 5 examples out there lol. He died at the age of 35 but the only examples are contracts from his career in Cuba.

drcy 10-25-2017 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored5000 (Post 1714006)
Nope. They all signed for Coach's Corner. ;)

On the same ball even.

drcy 10-25-2017 10:52 PM

Off topic but of interest:

"The three most valuable autographs in the world are Julius Caesar, William Shakespeare and Button Gwinnett. 'Button Gwinnett?,' you say. An obscure Representative from the US State of Georgia, Gwinnett signed the 1776 American Declaration of Independence. The complete 'set' of all 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence is the most coveted in the autograph hobby, and Gwinnett's is by far of the rarest of the signatures with only ten in private hands. The complete set-- which includes George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson-- is valued at around US$1.5-2 million, with Gwinnett's signature making up more than half the value."

Republicaninmass 10-25-2017 10:57 PM

"The one of whom may not exist"

vintagerookies51 10-26-2017 08:07 AM

Definitely Joe Jackson considering he was illiterate... Heritage had one on display at the National and it was incredible

oldjudge 10-26-2017 09:12 AM

It’s amazing how many Joe Jackson autographs have popped up in the last five years. It’s almost as if Joe is still signing.

mybuddyinc 10-26-2017 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy (Post 1714014)
Off topic but of interest:

"The three most valuable autographs in the world are Julius Caesar, William Shakespeare and Button Gwinnett. 'Button Gwinnett?,' you say. An obscure Representative from the US State of Georgia, Gwinnett signed the 1776 American Declaration of Independence. The complete 'set' of all 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence is the most coveted in the autograph hobby, and Gwinnett's is by far of the rarest of the signatures with only ten in private hands. The complete set-- which includes George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson-- is valued at around US$1.5-2 million, with Gwinnett's signature making up more than half the value."


............... darn :( ......... you beat me. I was going to ask if Button Gwinnett ever played baseball.

He was shot dead in duel on May 16, 1777 (thus only living well less than a year after signing Declaration of Independence). His adversary was Lachlan McIntosh. You can look up more if interested, but basically, they were long time military and political foes that didn't like each other to much.

Both have streets named after them in Savannah .

.............. carry on :rolleyes:

rats60 10-26-2017 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mybuddyinc (Post 1714103)
............... darn :( ......... you beat me. I was going to ask if Button Gwinnett ever played baseball.

He was shot dead in duel on May 16, 1777 (thus only living well less than a year after signing Declaration of Independence). His adversary was Lachlan McIntosh. You can look up more if interested, but basically, they were long time military and political foes that didn't like each other to much.

Both have streets named after them in Savannah .

.............. carry on :rolleyes:

His supply wouldn't even land him in the top 10 of Baseball Hofers. At least he will never be forgotten due to one of the most populous counties in Georgia being named for him.

Not counting those with no known signatures, thus being impossible, it would have to be Buck Ewing. The only known signature is on his will.

Yoda 10-26-2017 02:16 PM

Are there any true specimens of Moses "Fleetwood" Walker known? If so, they must be few and far between.

Buckeyebo 07-05-2018 09:46 AM

Who is the toughest
 
Wow so many! I am an HOF autograph guy. Pardon the spelling errors but here you go....19th century and Negro league with a few exceptions will be where the buck stops. Delahanty, Cummings, Hulbert, Ewing, Kelly(King not George), Radbourne, and others Selee, McGinnity. Really any 19th century autograph has my utmost respect. Negro league Josh Gibson, and Rube Foster ....yet they are common compared to some near impossible signs.! Ross Youngs is rare yet he is common compared to Addie Joss! I have had all but 2 I just listed currently own 4 listed. Not fond of cuts but letters documents are great. Bottom line is they do not come around often maybe 1 or 2 Real a decade.....or less! If you are serious about collecting buckle up it can get very expensive! Fortunately I am at the point where I don’t see something I need ortruly desire often, so when I do I am well rested, and ready to play :)! Good Luck i5 is a fun and Great hobby!

Lordstan 07-05-2018 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mybuddyinc (Post 1714103)
............... darn :( ......... you beat me. I was going to ask if Button Gwinnett ever played baseball.

He was shot dead in duel on May 16, 1777 (thus only living well less than a year after signing Declaration of Independence). His adversary was Lachlan McIntosh. You can look up more if interested, but basically, they were long time military and political foes that didn't like each other to much.

Both have streets named after them in Savannah .

.............. carry on :rolleyes:

I have read that Thomas Lynch Jr is the rarest of the DOI signers. Apparently there are less than 14 copies of his sig known, whereas there are 47 of Gwinnett.

But some of the rarest Baseball include Joss and Jose Mendez. Somewhere in Net54 is a Jim Stinson post about how he went to cuba to find a Mendez and apparently no one knows of one or something like that. I am sure there are others where no know example exists. Anyone ever heard of a Jim Creighton autograph?

tazdmb 07-05-2018 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckeyebo (Post 1792338)
I have had all but 2 I just listed currently own 4 listed.

First, welcome to the boards! We have a few collectors here-myself included-that are going for them all with BB Hofers. The toughest I own are probably Thompson and Wilkinson. PS-we love pictures and hope you will share. The owner of the only verified Joss is on here and will post from time to time.

Duluth Eskimo 07-05-2018 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazdmb (Post 1792355)
First, welcome to the boards! We have a few collectors here-myself included-that are going for them all with BB Hofers. The toughest I own are probably Thompson and Wilkinson. PS-we love pictures and hope you will share. The owner of the only verified Joss is on here and will post from time to time.

You are very polite.

packs 07-05-2018 12:15 PM

Good luck finding a Steve Dalkowski signed rookie. They exist of course but it took me FOREVER to track one down.

chalupacollects 07-05-2018 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored5000 (Post 1714006)
Nope. They all signed for Coach's Corner. ;)

Some just this week!

theshleps 07-05-2018 05:14 PM

would love to see Lipman Pike first Jewish player

RichardSimon 07-06-2018 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshleps (Post 1792446)
would love to see Lipman Pike first Jewish player

Is he the guy with the "autograph sale" that took place for big money and then the sale fell apart for a reason I do not remember?

theshleps 07-06-2018 08:14 PM

Lipman Pike
 
here is his wiki page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lip_Pike

bigtrain 07-07-2018 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy (Post 1714014)
Off topic but of interest:

"The three most valuable autographs in the world are Julius Caesar, William Shakespeare and Button Gwinnett. 'Button Gwinnett?,' you say. An obscure Representative from the US State of Georgia, Gwinnett signed the 1776 American Declaration of Independence. The complete 'set' of all 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence is the most coveted in the autograph hobby, and Gwinnett's is by far of the rarest of the signatures with only ten in private hands. The complete set-- which includes George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson-- is valued at around US$1.5-2 million, with Gwinnett's signature making up more than half the value."

Just to be clear, General Washington did not sign the Declaration of Independence as he was busy with the Continental Army defending New York at the time. However, having thrown a silver dollar across the Potomac, he probably would have made a heck of a pitcher. He was a southpaw.

JoeDfan 07-11-2018 09:47 AM

My dream signature would be Sockalexis...but I have only heard of two in very private collections.

FenwayDave1918 07-29-2020 06:59 PM

1912 Red Sox Autographs?
 
I have been searching everywhere but cannot find the following:

Jake Stahl
Heinie Wagner
Clyde Engle
Hick Cady
Jack Bushelman
Chester Thomas
Les Nunamaker
Olaf Hendricksen

Any leads would be appreciated!

Case12 07-29-2020 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btcarfagno (Post 1713927)
There are literally hundreds if not thousands of guys who played in the majors for whom there is not a single known example. Guys who played in the 1800's. Died in the 1800's. Played before 1920 in 10 games or less and died young.

If the OP could narrow the question down a bit in terms of HOF or by decade or whatever it would elicit more specific responses.

Tom C

And ironically for some, only one. They are inexpensive on index/post cards. Often $5. I pick them up all the time, and most I can't find anywhere else (except in SABR).
So, need more context around what "rare" means.

MJKnightJr 07-29-2020 10:05 PM

1955 Topps Harry Agganis!!

etsmith 07-30-2020 06:06 PM

How about James "Swat" McCabe, I've got a possible autograph but can't find any exemplars anywhere.

Topnotchsy 07-30-2020 10:59 PM

Among Negro League greats there are quite a few for whom there are no known examples. Kevin Keating, in his Negro League Autograph Guide has a section that lists a whole bunch of names. I believe over time a couple from the list may have been found, but there are certainly some major names from Negro League history that haven't been found yet.

jakebeckleyoldeagleeye 07-31-2020 10:41 AM

Our hometown boy HOF'er Jake Beckley is a tough one. I think in 35 years I've seen 3 up for auction and they were all pencil cut return addresses.
Of course there was an autographed baseball on Ebay this year and people actually bid on it.:eek:

mrmopar 08-02-2020 07:15 PM

As some have said already, there are probably many lesser known players that only a team collector might covet. Those guys who maybe played 1 game, or played and died long before collecting autographs was popular or never signed anything for whatever reason. Without a strong demand for them though, who knows.

I'm sure that there are plenty of turn of the century Brooklyn players that I would never find if I tried to complete that run. I won't, because I don't have the patience, expertise or funds to do it, but I do enjoy the story of Clancy Smyres. I learned of him from this site. He appeared in 5 games for the 1944 Dodgers and lived to the ripe age of 86, dying in 2007, yet good luck finding his autograph.

mrmopar 08-02-2020 07:17 PM

I just started another thread yesterday asking about a specific card signed and if it existed. The player never played in the majors, but he did have a card. Dennis Daboll, who is 1 of 4 rookies on the 1965 Topps Dodgers rookie card. I would love to know of and especially see a signed copy of this card, if any exist.

JRS123490 08-03-2020 05:30 PM

If we are talking HOF'er's, Franklin Grant. Has to be, right?


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