Buying all #332 Tony Bartirome 1952 Topps cards + his Gold Canary + Griffey + Tiger
 

I am on a mission to buy all of Tony Bartirome's 1952 Topps cards that are in existence. It is HIGH card #332.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psamjot1ap.jpg

This is my a family member & trying to secure them for family, relatives, grand kids in the future. Whenever they pop up on eBay I buy them. I will pay a premium.

Still need the PSA 9's that are out there & will pay $5,000 for one (one I saw on a private card website sold for $3000 or so).

Will pay $1,500 for a PSA 8 (the ones I see that sold on private card websites were $600-$700).

Also there are 12 BGS graded Bartirome, but I don't have one of them nor have I ever seen them. Would like to find those too.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psow7ebf0y.jpg

I have 1 of the 10 Gold Canary cards of him from the 2011 Topps Lineage. Looking for the other 9 as well.

Send a PM! Or text 213 399 3335[/SIZE]

Wow....Tony must have a LOT of relatives......

I wonder how many, or if anyone needs this card to complete a set... And how many 52 topps high number cards of the sample player does one have to own to actually affect supply to where it causes an actual increase in price?

I need Bartirome for my set.....I'm not sure someone could pull a Hunt Brothers on a single 1952 Topps High number. I would have no way to estimate how many of a single number were produced. A LOT, by all accounts, became fish food, so I guess you're starting from a much lower number to begin with. Great display of centered cards. Hard to find 52 Highs that consistently centered. Assuming he has a discriminating taste or maybe this card is more frequently found centered, don't know. Good luck on your quest!

I noticed quite a few of the 1983 Topps reprints of Bartirome for $6-$15 on ebay.....

a lot more than what hes buying , plus hes not prepared to pay 2x 3x the price on 707cards and Deans cards whatever so a .5 increase isnt going to do much..plus many many hi grade sets already with the card on the registry.....plus as we all know in future years card collecting in general will have less people in the hobby until you show me that more people on the registry are younger than older that will be the case..

I did buy 707's
 

I just bit the bullet & bought 707's 2 for $600+.

So I am prepared to pay 2x - 3x the price. Just depends on my mood, & current expendable funds.

I see Mile High & HA auctions sold #332 PSA 6, PSA 7 and PSA 8's for 50% of what I would have paid for them on eBay.
I mean $597 for a PSA 8 #332 !?!? http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-ca...=ha-rss-search
And $626 for another one!?!? http://www.goodwinandco.com/lot-5062.aspx
What is wrong with HA and Goodwin!?!? Don't they know a PSA 8 sells for $1,000 on eBay!?!? Wish I was aware of these auction houses when they were offered! Who are these owners!? I would love to offer them double then what they paid.

I wish I had started buying this card 5+ years ago. & wish I was aware that people are actually selling them anywhere other then eBay. I'm confused why people would cosign them over to HA, Mile High, Sirius, etc & get 25% of what they would get on eBay for them. 6% fees on eBay isn't that scary!

1952boyntoncollector, you believe 1952 Topps cards will decrease in value? I don't know why you believe less people will be in the hobby. As the population increases by tens of millions more, why wouldn't there be just as many if not more collectors of legendary sets like 1952 Topps & prior?

not sure why you encouraging these over market sellers to keep prices over market..i guess these sellers are hoping everyone has a distant relative that was a major leaguer


the reason i thought you wouldnt pay 2-3 x over market price was this comment:

"I will pay you a small premium above actual market selling prices, but not 2-3x value"


As for the hobby in general..i dont think im alone in that i believe there will be decline overall in vintage cards in 10 years or so.....always a market for Ruth etc but not PSA 8 commons that are going for $600 etc...plus the ebb and flow of the economy ........for 1952s..until you show me that the top 30 set collectors have an average age under 50 i will hold my position that the demand will decline for the commons versus supply..

Autograf - you peaked my interested.I googled "Hunt Brothers", but nothing relevant immediately came up. Tell me the story.

I am trying to own all #332 in existence, & realize it will take decades to do so. Only one by one, set break after set break, by those who hold #332 in sets currently, especially the 32 PSA 8's and 4 PSA 9's.

I now have 37 that need to be graded, & about 50 that already have. That picture of the collection is outdated.

Not encouraging them. Watched Deans Cards offer a few #332's for months & I never caved in to their rip off prices. Apparently others did though. They are no longer available. I kept hounding them, trying to cut a deal, but they wouldn't do it.

Just depends on my expendable funds level. I really hold out on paying a big premium, but catch me on a good day like 707 just got the blessing of being on the receiving end of, & ok, good for them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...-/111785024544

I offered the guy $250 & he said no less then $400! He referred to recent sales. I said THAT WAS ALL ME!!! He held strong. I said OK $275 that's IT!!!! I thought no way in hell any one was going to out offer me, but apparently he sold it for $360 & he thought he was "cutting the guy a deal because he was buying other cards from him". So I was disappointed I missed out on it, & was going to either call his bluff & he'd cave in a week for $275, or I'd come up to $300, but it didn't happen, & he got $360 for a PSA 5. Guess my purchase with 707 gave him that perception that it was worth $400. So yes, my purchases of #332 has impacted the market.

I believe out of the millions of new people on this planet every year, there are hundreds - or thousands? - of new collectors that want to be a part of the vintage baseball card days. I don't see demand dropping. There will be new generations that will want to collect vintage baseball card sets, the same way new generations will collect antique toys, dolls, guns, etc.

My hope is the set holders right now will leave their 1952 Topps sets to their children, & once inherited, they will cosign PWCC's & Probstein's kids to sell them, & I will continue to pick up the SET BREAK #332 cards decades from now!

You've impacted the market from dealers on your own past buys..but you cant say you really impacted teh market until you see real auctions take place...many members here dont even factor in buy it nows when looking at VCPs....and yes set breaks are what lower the prices for all cards....dealers cant command 2-3x market value if there are many people breaking up sets...even the non-patent collectors can wait a few weeks....when you dont see a card in the market for a while thats when the buy it nows do better...

Problem that I am now seeing, & direct proof that I am influencing the actual market, even in an auction style listing for a #332, are these 2 bidders going at it in a bidding war to win it - just to sell it to me:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361402950360

myrondavis07 won it.
doug.41 was the runner up.

They both understand I pay extra for #332.

Both of them have been bidding against each other for multiple listings of #332 now. If I throw myself into the bidding mix, it creates quite the problem.

A fool and his money are soon parted. Dealers love guys like you.

The Hunt Brothers tried to corner the silver market unsuccessfully in the 1970's I believe.....Tony is still alive huh? Does he still sign through the mail?

the link doesnt show but one auction isnt VCP i saw one go cheap on ebay recently...i guess you will pay extra until you dont.......and that poor guy that overpayed will have noone to sell it too ....all comes to end eventually......i know at least 15 set collectors that have one that arent selling so you may be helping them since they didnt pay a premum but i know a few 1952 hoarders from years ago that had many more examples of the card they wanted compared what you have for #332 and now you can buy those cards with a price that wouldnt give you a second thought that someone may have large amount of the market share on that card because its not reflective on price...

i think one way to raise the market a little is to burn what you have on youtube! Farmers pour out milk to raise milk prices........but i know you state you arent trying to raise the market you have a connection to the ballplayer

I

Having bought two cards from Levi, perhaps you should retract your reference to him in your initial post as a "scammer."

The trick is to let those 2 over pay and get stuck with a few of them. You need to have a price limit set for each grade and stick to it otherwise everybody is just going to take advantage of you.

With your buying habits you are influencing the market and will cost yourself a lot of extra $. Influencing the market is really easy. It only takes 2-4 bidders to artificially drive up prices. I have watched a few members on here do it with buying patterns claiming they are collectors and while they still have the market artificially high they dump their "collection" for a huge profit then rinse and repeat.

Sitting back and laughing at how screwed up this hobby is, is as much a part of the hobby to me as collecting the cards.

Good luck on your quest.

SCF has a Bartirome success from last June. I know I saw several more on SCN in the late spring/early summer months, but I don't have a premium membership so I can't look those up.

Done. Really don't appreciate their lack of compromise or flexibility, so my opinion of them stands, regardless of buying from them to further a goal, but the words have been removed.

Just paid $750 for a PSA 7.5 & that was a private sale from Ed Hazuka. Not worried about market price. Just trying to obtain many examples of each grade for personal family collection of Tony.

Are you saying those 1952 hoarders you know will or won't sell their #332 duplicates? Put out the word to them, & the 15 set holders you know that when they are going to do their set breaks, sell #332 to me, not PWCC or probstein, because they will get more from me directly.

The link works now. Revised it.

It is entertaining huh!

The worst pirates hitters of all time:

1B Tony Bartirome (1952) — 124 games, 386 plate appearances — .220 AVG/.273 OBP/.265 SLG (44 wRC+)

You have to be a special brand of awful to be a first baseman, no matter what era, and not hit a home run over the course of a season spanning 386 PA’s. The 1952 season was Bartirome’s only season in the Majors.

And yet, his card is worth $100's of dollars because it's a high number! Love it!

In regards to influencing the market / cornering the market:

One dealer believes such:

I simply asked gfg.com guy the following even though I have bought all of them from him, feeling him out for more:

Do you have any of these cards? They are pictured, but no where to click for them:

https://www.gfg.com/cardimg/119/27352.jpg

gfg@gfg.com
Sep 19

no, the guys nephew is trying to corner the market on them, he keeps buying them all up, I have none

Dave

The problem is they will die with their collections..so yeah 20-30 years from now you may see those set breaks.. but you may be the only 1 bidding so you can get them cheap by then....plus there are many raw out there that havent been graded...people can pay what they want but it still going to be a ways to go for the card to be rare on the market...plus really only the ex+or better is what the the registry collectors are looking for... however i will let them know...i sold most of 1952 set to several of the set collectors and thats how i know them..

man first Levi and now Ed Hazuka..but Ed sells at better rates..i actually about 10 or so 1952s from him in the past......

What a fascinating look into the mind of a baseball card hoarder this thread is. :)


A 19-year old 5'10" 155 lb. 1st Baseman, barely out of High School and only one year of C-Ball under his belt. The Pirates must have been in desperate need of a 1st baseman that year. :eek:

He never saw the majors again, but went on to have a pretty respectable minor league career, mostly at AAA.

He went on to be the Pirates trainer for many years. Back in the 70's, he signed my / his '52 and '53 Topps cards. I remember he took the '52 and was showing it to other Pirates sitting in the dug out. Maybe none believed him to be a former Pirate player? Nice man, very friendly.

To me, I get just as excited about a PSA 1 as a PSA 6.... if I see it available, I want it just as bad. I don't mind paying $200 for a 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. If it's raw and ungraded and looks bad, to me it's worth $150 at least regardless of condition. Of course I do recognize the extra rarity of a 7 and up, & paying handsomely for those.....but overall, I like #332 and try to win it just as aggressively no matter the condition or grade, & usually end up paying the same range for any 1-4 grade of it ($250 or less).

Out of the 346 PSA graded #332, I have about 50 of them now. So almost 20% is in my possession. I have 37 more to get graded to spike the PSA pop. Now owning 20% of the PSA population of #332 does seem to be influencing things lately. Of course, I have zero of the 4 PSA 9's and only 1 PSA 8, but it's an OC Qualifier. Hopefully I'll be able to get a few of the 32 PSA 8's by the end of the year (one is on Robert Edwards now, & one is on Heritage Auctions next month, thanks for the tips guys).

My dad used to have breakfast with him, and Stargell and Richie Zisk & Sanguillen at the pantry (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restauran...alifornia.html) next to the Los Angeles Biltmore Hotel (where the Pirates would stay).... My Dad got a ball signed from Clemente 2 weeks before he died in the plane crash. My dad was 14 then.

My Dad says he changed his last name to make it easier for announcers to pronounce.... 3 syllables instead of 4.... "Bar - tah - rome .......instead of Bar - tah - ro - mo....

Seems simple to me, but no one ever pronounces our name right.

there are probably 750-1000 of those cards in the States when all said and done........did you win the card on REA?

an economic experiment?
 

This is a fascinating thread, and surely it is an economic experiment. The buyer "announces" that he will be buying X card at above-market prices. How will the market react? Will price move? How many cards exist (supply)? I think it would be fun to try this myself if I had already cornered the market and were really a seller (as some have hinted); rationally, one oughtn't buy the cheap talk and assume this is a best response to a previously assemble position. Beyond this, this experiment is generating a lot of information that was not previously available to all. What is the true supply of high numbers from 1952? I hope that we all continue to track this, preferably, in the post-war forum. It is a nice extension of the Curt Flood experiment, where the buyer was a real buyer but did not announce his intentions in advance.

My contribution to the experiment: A key supply indicator is the PSA pop reports. So, why not take the OP's 20-25% of the PSA supply, crack them, and resubmit. Then, you will have about 50% of the published supply. All buyers will then see high pop reports but zero/low supply on EBAY and elsewhere. This would look like an anomaly to market observers, and it might generate interest. Perhaps, more velocity in the #332 turnover/marketing out of collections.

YES

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=38312

Don't like how my auto bid kept getting bumped up after $900 in after hours bidding. I've never seen a PSA 8 go for more then $950 (on eBay last year with a buy it now). Other then that, it's done $400-$600 on other websites from my research....

But yes, I won it for $1,300.

Heritage has one next month. We will see what happens.

Interesting. Well, I could crack all PSA 1's - 4's & resubmit, but that is costly, & since I am in it as a collector & not to manipulate the market, there is no incentive unless I just like chaos & anarchy.

I won't risk cracking 5's & up & getting them a lesser grade.

I've asked a few #332 owners to sell me theirs (at double the market price) & they have refused because it was part of their set. So some just cannot be bought right now. Even the recent PSA 5 that had a $450 buy it now with best offer that went for $360, could not be re-bought for $500 when I asked the seller to tell the buyer to contact me if he wanted to make a nice quick profit. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...-/111785024544 I won't pay $500 for a PSA 5, but the seller kept saying he passed my message on to the buyer at $400 so I just tried to smoke him out with a $500 offer, but still no response. $400 is the max I will pay for a PSA 5. I'm young - I can wait out some of these owners until they set break or fall on hard times.

I was going to wait until I had 100 ungraded #332's and then submit all for grading so I can get the $8 per card grading fee.

I will take a new group shot of all the #332's and update here once the PSA 8 from REA arrives.

I find it strange that I have never seen any of the 11 BGS graded #332's offered online anywhere:

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psow7ebf0y.jpg

There were 11 last week, now 12. Even the 2s, 4s, and 4.5 has never been seen. They aren't high grades so maybe not in sets? I still have zero BGS #332's.

right many of the set collectors aren't going to break up their sets.. you will need their kids to sell it after the death of the collector...most of the 52 collectors are over 50 years old....about the time when you see all the sets get broken up is when prices should fall...supply and demand..

the one on REA was pretty offcentered...the heritage one may go for more....I bought the #12 Basgil which I think is one of the rarest 1952s to get in a black back and paid less than 1300 funny

supply curve
 

The OP is getting some terrific market info, and I appreciate his willingness to share. We are seeing some more complex aspects of value rather than simply the price of the marginal trade. Consider that the OP has found that some owners are unwilling to accept even 1.5x or more...even when they just bought it. People certainly value their own cards, and all owners do not view those on the market as substitutes. The OP is going farther up the supply curve

Also, I always wondered how many cards on the beckett or psa pop guides were resubmitted, and so the numbers in the pop report are above the true number of graded cards. The OP is gaining some insight on the true population. Even for commons, I hypothesized that a good number of 5s and higher are resubmitted.

BTW: I am fascinated because I established a small position on a 1957 common several years ago. I noticed that the psa 5+ market price rose 10-20% on ebay, which I attributed to my position. The 1957 commons are far more in number, I bet, than 1952 highs, so I am not surprised that the OP's position is driving price up rapidly.

The PSA 8s don't get resubmitted often though for 1952s....so that POP is probably pretty accurate the prices will hold until he doesn't buy one from a person for an amount he stated....then all the prices will collapse....he did say he was young .things change really fast on card collecting ...people tend to 'refocus' their collection often...

How about an updated picture like the first one showing ALL your 332 cards?

I have never been aware of black back or any specific back. Does #332 have different color backs? All of mine are the same....

I have also never noticed centering....it isn't even 1% concern of mine. Now that you mention it, the REA centering is a bit off, but again, it doesn't matter to me what the centering shows. It is strange to me for a collector to be concerned where an imaginary border created by a ink line lands on a cards edge.

Publishing this thread has allowed me to obtain 2 PSA 6's this month from private messages on this forum. One of them originally said NO, not selling.

"I do have a Bartirome, PSA 6 centered, but I'm not looking to sell just at the moment. I'll definitely keep you in mind though if I do elect to do so in the near future. "

Then I said LOOK, PWCC is auctioning off a PSA 6 right now. When it ends with me as the winner, I will contact you again & offer you whatever PWCC final auction price went for + $50 extra. We all know PWCC commands a premium so +$50 was an even higher premium.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psafan3rja.jpg

Then he said:

I can tell you really want that card, and hey, us collectors gotta help each other out. So I'll do that deal.

So I figured I had to broadcast what I am seeking to hunt some of these down.

I will round them up out of their safes & locations & take a picture of all of them as soon as the new PSA 8 arrives in a few weeks.

Just curious, how did you arrive at a population of 750-1000? I'm not doubting you, I was just wondering.

Wow, if Net54 is the haystack, I just found the needle.

well there are probably just as many raw bad condition cards then there are graded cards...there are around 375 graded cards that puts it at 750....people dont submit psa 1 common high numbers....plus there got to be some more beter conditon cards out there..its a guess..but there are a ton of raw cards out there..i got 2 or 3 good condition baritromes i bought raw that were psa 7-8s the last 2 years and im just a little guy i not scouring the US looking for cards.....

I am glad I amused you :)

helllloooooo! Sell them to me!!!! :)

And just to prevent any confusion, I meant ZERO disrespect in the comment. It's actually a refreshing and welcome thing to encounter a collector here who takes a fairly disinterested position on centering. (And no disrespect to the centering guys either--each to his own.)

I like the 1000+ range...............maybe 1250 or more.

349 graded by PSA
36 graded by SGC
12 graded by BGS
397 Total

In his picture he has 15 graded and 28 ungraded. So assume of the 397, there are some regrades on the high end. 10-15% maybe? that'd get you down to 350-360 or so. If the graded to ungraded number holds out at 2-1, you'd be easily at 1000+. I tend to think that theres a lot ungraded of this stuff out there. Especially Topps cards.

There are 1287 Graded PSA Mantles and 389 SGC graded, total 1676. So they're likely re-graded at a higher level than the norm for 1952T right? But then there's ungraded ones out there. Likely a LOT less than 2-1 on them and it's a DP card. So the 1000 number has to be pretty good if not low on the Bartirome. JMO................

I know this is the BST but this thread has a life of its own so if I may:

-I am not a 1952 Topps guy. I have a low number near-set in mid grade but have not bought a card in years. I have one (1) of each card that I have (and no Bartirome), so I don't really have a dog in this race.

-I find this kind of hoarding odd and more than a little annoying. Okay, I get the whole one for each of the kids, cousins, great-grand nephews, what have you. But unless the family in question looks like the one from the opening scene of Monty Python's Meaning of Life, I think they are covered and then some.

-so now we have an apparently well-heeled individual actively trying to corner the market on this card. To what end? Presuming he is a Bartirome relative does not obviate another profit-based motive. Again no crime in that, and maybe I am being cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few years from now these reappeared in the market at inflated prices.

-I place this in the same category as Titus, 1964 Curt Flood, and other hoards known and unknown. Not my thing and an annoyance, I am sure, to set collectors everywhere.

-If I happen across a Bartirome at some store or show maybe I will buy it now. But I won't tell. Its my contrary nature.

Perhaps I'd feel differently if I were hoping to complete a 1952 or 1964 set, but I think it's awesome that there are guys who are hoping to buy everything out there. From my reads, neither our Bartirome collector nor the Flood collector are specifically trying to rig the market--both have sentimental reasons for their quixotic quests.

I love seeing collectors who are passionate about the players and the cards, particularly when so much of the "Hobby" is about money these days. True, it takes an awful lot of disposable cash to support this Bartiromania, but there is a love I see here that I just don't when I read all about PSA 8s that get mailed in over and over until they become 9s.

Fair point. But I do see a line between collecting and obsessing/hoarding. And, even taking the OP at face value, I'm not sure where this falls. I am not a flipper, investor or serial submitter and that part of this hobby/business holds no allure for me either.
And, why not the cheaper 1953 Bartirome instead/as well?

relax..the guy said he is young and just started....as we know things happen in a year or two.....all it takes is him not buying back a card at inflated prices and everything collapses....now if this goes on for 5 years or so...save this message and we can revisit..but cant really talk about cornering the market after a year etc...gonna need a LOT of set breaks to occur over time......life happens , things in peoples lives change..which impacts collecting...we shall see.... but fun to talk about now for sure..

I do find this interesting and wishing you luck. But why not pursue the 53's that can be had for a fraction of the 52's?

Because that's the set I'm working on!:D

Maybe it has to do with the place the 1952 Topps set has in collecting history, and it being Bartirome's rookie card. Although I think the 1953 set is the nicer looking of the two (one of the reasons I started building it in the first place), you can't go wrong either way. Full disclosure, I have his card from the 53 set signed and don't plan on selling.

Let me know if this potential future scenario would annoy you? Perhaps after I do not see a single Bartirome ever listed on eBay or auction houses across the net for an entire year straight, I will be content with my collection. Perhaps I will then set aside 20 of them for the descendants & the rest (100's at that point, I assume 10 years from now to not see one cross the net for a year), I will just flood eBay with all at once. You & others would then be able to buy them up for under $50 each maybe, since there will be hundreds of active auction style listings all going & ending at the same time. Wouldn't that be fun!

Until then, if you come across a #332, let my offer to pay double what you paid for it tempt you until you cave :)

I truly am not in #332 for the money. My $500/$1000 bills and gold/silver collections, YES.