My Dealings with Memory Lane...GREAT read :/
 

Happy Sunday everyone!

I'd like your opinion on this one, if you will:

So, I'm a collector of the 1948 Leaf Set, and have been contemplating the purchase of a Ruth PSA 8 on EBay offered by Memory Lane. So, I sent this email to Memory Lane on 10:30 PM on Thursday night:

Hi (Name...you all know it),
Hope you're well. I'm interested in this card here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350627891334
I'm wondering how much is the cost if I pay you direct, cash?
Additionally, is this card still available at $4200 here:
http://ownitnow.memorylaneinc.com/gallery.aspx?id=1212
Please LMK on both, thanks.

NOTE: At the time of sending this email, the Ruth PSA 8 on EBay was listed at $5000 exactly. When you look now, you will see $5750. This will come into play later on.

So then, I receive a reply a day later from Memory Lane, first thing in the morning on Friday from (A guy you all know):

The one on eBay I can do for 4750 cash and the one in own it now I can so for 4450. The price in own it now didn't include the buyers fee of 15%. Lmk

I'm thinking, OK, fine, fair enough. The only weird thing, I must admit, was the fact that there was now a buyer's fee on the Own It Now. I don't know why you'd show a fixed price on a website for a card where the real price is actually higher. Frankly, if that is the case and I'm not getting screwed, they ought to make that clear.

So, you know, I'm thinking about the one on EBay for $4750. I like it. It's an OK price, I suppose. So I take a WHOLE day to think about it. Wow. One day. On Saturday, I decide to buy. I send this email to Memory Lane:

I thought about it today and I've decided I'll do it at $4750. Please let me know how to proceed.

Then, this morning, I get a reply from (Name you all know) at Memory Lane:

I can no longer do the one on eBay for 4750 as the consignor re priced it yesterday.

Might I add, in addition, all of a sudden the EBay price on the Memory Lane EBay store as you see, has magically risen to $5750. That price changed yesterday I suppose at some point.

In subsequent emails, as you can imagine, I told him I thought this was BS and he in essence told me 'tough.'

So, there are two things I'd like to say about this:

1 - My suspicion is that Memory Lane saw the auction results of the HA auction this week, and noted that a 1948 Leaf Ruth PSA 8 sold for $5600 or so, with the Buyer's fee, and quickly realized that they could squeeze me or someone else for more money, so they went ahead and rescinded a deal they made to me a whole single day earlier. Mind you, they didn't proactively TELL me they were rescinding the deal, they just waited until I said I'd buy the card to bait and switch me.

2 - Yes, I do understand that there is probably a consignor involved. Does that genuinely mean that Memory Lane is going to back out on a deal that they offered in writing (albeit email)? Know what a reputable auction house would do? Go through with the sale and eat the commission on the one card among the hundreds of others it earns money on, for sake of maintaining a pristine reputation. Do you think any other major auction house would pull a stunt like that?

I mean, let's be honest, we already know that dealers are in this for money. That's no secret. But I've never been treated this way by anyone else in the "hobby."

Sleazy... Out of principal, I won't deal with them, ever. When they catch wind of this thread and realize it's time for damage control. I hope you don't cave and purchase the damn thing.

I thought an offer remained an offer until rescinded or accepted.

Thats totally unscrupulous! Its a good thing there are some new auction houses on the block as the list of houses I will deal with is dwindling!

It was accepted before it was rescinded, as I read the chronology. An offer that does not specify a time for acceptance remains open for a reasonable time. A day surely seems a reasonable time. JP should, in my opinion, honor the bargain struck. If he no longer was able to take the price he had offered because the consignor repriced, he should have told the OP BEFORE the OP accepted.

Peter and Eric,

I do appreciate your commentary. For the record, your assumptions are correct. There was absolutely no "rescinding" of the deal from Memory Lane. Absolutely not. I took one day to consider their deal, and took it. The next morning is when I was told they would not accept the deal.

I mean, technically, doesn't that still constitute a legally binding offer? I was pretty sour about the whole ordeal. I mean, I'm not top 3 money spenders in the hobby, but I thought this treatment was, frankly, crude.

Look at the bright side: at least you're not an 80 year old grandmother from Brooklyn who received a cold call from JP. It could always be worse, trust me.

Be patient that card has a print dot right after the word Babe on the front of the card, Another will come by and you will know it's the right card for you. As for the $4450.00 You still have it in your pocket and with the way this economy is that's nothing to sneeze at. They will be a long time trying to unload it. I'd rather be you then them. Good luck and take your time.

"I can no longer do the one on eBay for 4750 as the consignor re priced it yesterday."

What horrible customer service. Renege on a deal, then assign the blame to your consignor.

You did your part in reporting this, as many others will read about it. I'll be glad to never deal with them in the future.

Bill

With the cash still in your pocket, smile with your head up knowing your money is more appreciated elsewhere!;)

It has become fashionable lately to blame a high price you're asking for a card on someone else.

Interresting thread.
Thanks

And since I'm sitting around watching the WS, and just dinking around doing research, I thought you all would be interested in these as well. I know many of you know that this existed in the past, but maybe not in this detail:

Chronology of Cohen Telemarketing Scam 1987-2002
Description of Cohen Telemarketing Scam and Sentencing 2002
FTC Judgement Banning Cohen Telemarketing for Life
Cohen Court Injunction .pdf

I know I can't speak for anyone else and I only post this for pure fact-finding. But my last Buyer's Premium has gone to this dude. I personally can't believe PSA calls him an Authorized Dealer. It's shameful and sick.

Here is just a little snippet from the third link above:

In November 1998, the FTC filed a complaint against the above-named defendants, J.P. Cohen (a defendant not part of the settlement package), and the corporate entities through which they did business, U.S. Marketing and North American Charitable Services, Inc. The FTC alleged that in telephone scripts, "thank you" letters, and brochures sent to donors, the defendants and their subcontractors misrepresented that consumers' donations would benefit local purposes - such as holiday parties for sick children in local hospitals - and misrepresented that consumers' donations would support particular programs - such as buying wheelchairs for veterans. According to the FTC, most donations did not support a charitable purpose but instead funded the nationwide telemarketing operation and lined the defendants' pockets. In some instances, the defendants never paid the nonprofits, but simply kept all the money raised in their names.

According to PSA's website regarding becoming a PSA Authorized Dealer, it states, "Applicant and key employees must not have been convicted of a felony in the past five years."

http://www.psacard.com/about/faq.chtml#faqid71

So does this mean that any felon whose been doing time for 5 years or longer can be a PSA Authorized Dealer while still in jail?

(removed cheap joke)

We love cheap jokes. Cough it up, David.

.Removed by author because it's another cheap joke (edited for refusal to use my last name)

...

PSA=Penal System Authenticators

LOLOLOL. That is some hilarious stuff.

The market changed overnight. Why can't they change the price? Really, your beef here is that they didn't email you first? I bet the fact that it brought that money in ha is a main reason why you decided to buy ?? Is this true? The fact that there is a consigner involved is a HUGE thing . Perhaps after getting your email they told the consigner it sold and at that point they were told no. I really do not see anything wrong with this at all. Zero... It sucks that you couldn't get it cheaper after the one sold in ha but now to suggest memory lane is doing something unethical because their consigner now wants market value and they support it is very unfair IMO .

The market may have changed and they can change the price to whatever they want to. But that does not override the fact that the legitimate offer made was still valid until rescided. Basic law and basic common sense.

And yes, if they didn't want it to be accepted then they should have sent notice immediately. That's how it works.

Gimme a break. If you stroll down Memory Lane expect some shade.

They shouldn't have said they'd accept an offer of XYZ unless they were authorized by the consigner to accept that offer. You tell a guy you'll sell for a price and as soon as they pull out their cash you think to yourself maybe you could get a little more. That's not good business.

They wouldn't have. They almost certainly had a "minimum" acceptable offer. Plus it's possible the consignor was within the company, maybe even the guy sending the emails.

No it does not.. Especially when a consigner is involved that can change their mind at a drop of a hat. We are not talking about buying real estate here.

If you guys want to argue or call out a company your full names should be in your posts. Even if you want to say something good the same rule applies. thanks

So Ben if I offer you (lets pretend I have a card you want) a card for $x today and tomorrow you reply and say "I'll take it", its fine if i say "sorry, its now $x+10%". You're okay with that? Nothing wrong with that? Normal business to make an offer and not follow thru with it?

Rob Gordy

Hearing grundle20's unfortunate story about Memory Lane and JP Cohen certainly does not come as a shock to me and shouldn't to anyone who knows about JP's criminal history. What shocks me is that more of these stories do not get posted.

JP's business will continue to thrive. If his involvement in defrauding innocent people out of 50 million dollars has not discouraged buyers from dealing with him then his breaching an agreement over 5K is almost laughable. It is unfortunate that grundle20 did not get the card but apparently ending up on the wrong side of a deal can be expected when dealing with Memory Lane and JP Cohen.

I am Greg Schwartz and I approve this post.

Am I happy about it? No.. Do I understand?? Yes..ESPECIALLY if my buying decision was altered(in any way)by the very same reason the sale price increased(ha sale). On top of that, a consigner is involved. Disappointed ?? Yes. Would i post it on a public board and suggest it is unethical?? Obsolutely not. Ben Weingarten

Well, speaking from the point of the guy who asked, was offered and was reneged on the deal:

There's actually not even an argument if it's unethical or not. If this were to go to arbitration or court (clearly, I'm not suing anyone, that's ridiculous, this is just to stress the point), I'd win the argument. It constitutes a written offer made and accepted. It's actually not legal BASED on ethics. The whole reason I posted it on a public board was specifically BECAUSE it was unethical, and I thought others should know what it's like dealing with Memory Lane if they have / are considering doing business with them in the future. Also, the very nature of consignment means that Memory Lane had the license to offer at a certain price. Even if the consignor changes his mind, it's AT LEAST Memory Lane's obligation to tell me the offer has expired. You cannot argue that one day to make that decision is too long.

Additionally, after reading in those links I posted on Page 2 of this thread that JP loved to play $50,000 hands of Pai-Gow Poker with money he stole from people who thought their money was going to charity, I felt compelled to post that, too. I invite anyone to speak who thinks those events have NO correlation...

It's a bit difficult to give JP and Memory Lane any benefit of the doubt here considering his significant criminal history in fraud. If he cared about the obvious perception he gives off he'd bend over backwards to try to appear ethical.

When a consignor changes their price, the auction house should have told them that they will change it ASAP but there is an offer outstanding that they need to rescing first. No different than if someone hit the buy-it-now button. And the same offer/acceptance rules apply to real estate, it's not different. Both examples have offers go through an "agent"

Then say "yes" next time justin and stop bitchin '
 

Justin--If you waited 2 days and the offer had not been rescinded, I guess
that would have been fine also to complain??? How do you know, as pointed out above, that the consignor didn't change his mind in the meantime??
What about 3 days?? At what point does a seller has to keep a price if someone does not commit?? 10 days???
What if 25 people had inquired as you had---that's all it was, by the way at that point; AN INQUIRY!---Does that mean that JP has to call you and 24 other inquiring minds who can't pull the trigger and tell them the price is changing??
Or are you just pissed cause you didn't have the cojones to get this card at an obviously very good price so you are taking it out on Memory Lane?

To those who imply that the card belongs to either an employee or JP himself, pretty lame on y'alls part but you probably had nothing better to say that allowed you to jump on the bandwagon.

I don't condone someones past behavior that was less than exemplary. But we live in a society in which if someone "pays his dues", they are allowed a second chance. At least that's what everyone says about Americans....that they are a forgiving people. I guess that's Americans minus the BB card hobby. And to use this situation which, in my opinion, was caused by your not acting promptly, to imply that it relates to ones past mistakes, is mistaken at best , while nasty and cowardly at worst.

Peace
Bill Latzko (don't have a middle name or I would have put that too)

Yes, the OP's first communication to JP was simply an inquiry, but JP's reply -- that he would sell the card for a certain price and to let him know -- sure sounds like an offer to me. (If it wasn't an offer, what was it?) JP had the right to rescind it, but he did not, so when the OP accepted it within a reasonable time, they had a deal.

If the buyer had hit JP's BIN on ebay, and JP had then said sorry no sale I repriced it, I don't think anyone would be defending JP (perhaps I am wrong). So what's the difference in the two situations?

The answer is none. IMO, there was an offer and acceptance for a specified consideration. Thats a deal.

Is real estate somehow different? I've seen homes on the market where the seller receives a full price offer, but the seller rejects it. I never understood how that was "legal" either. The house is for sale at a certain price, but then the price is raised after an offer is made at the full price. Why is this ok?

Putting a house on the market is not an offer. It is, in legal terms, an invitation to treat (bargain). The BUYER makes an offer, as you yourself said, and it is then up to the seller to accept or reject it.

I have traded crude oil for 28 years. If someone makes a firm offer(or bid) they indicate it as such and they indicate for how long the offer/bid is firm. An example would be that I would sell you X bbls of crude oil at $Y/bbl and that offer is firm for one half hour. Other than that, without the word "firm" in the bid or offer, the price is just considered an indication which needs to be reconfirmed if someone desires to consummate a deal. The card market is certainly less volatile than the commodity markets, but if it was me I would assume that if someone indicated a price for a card to me, and the next day I decided that I wanted to buy the card, I would have to go back and reconfirm the price.

I don't think the analogy to a volatile commodity holds. If someone offers me a vintage baseball card for a certain price and says "let me know," I assume if I say within a reasonable time "I'll take it" that we have a deal.

That is why he has other people at the card shows carry his duffel bags full of cash onto the airplanes, so I am told.

To me
 

When he said let me know that meant let him know within a reasonable amount of time. He did not say immediately so therefore I feel he should sell the card as 1 day is certainly a reasonable time.

Bill,

First, I appreciate your feedback, thank you. A few points:

- I'd like to politely disagree about this entire ordeal being an inquiry. An inquiry was my first email by itself. The second email was JP offering me a price. The third email was me ACCEPTING the price.

- If we're tied up on one day being too late, or two days or ten days, then why not argue the other side if a "deal's not a deal until paid." What about ten minutes? Five minutes? Does JP reserve the right to rescind the deal (without telling me) IMMEDIATELY after saying he'll sell the card for a price?

- I don't think the size of my testicles has much to do with the buying of the card, frankly. Actually, Bill, I TRIED to get the card. One day later. By your definition, my balls should actually be HUGE. Truly, though, I can't honestly see the parallel between the level of man-hood and what price I'm willing to drop on cards.

- Lastly, I don't at all find it cowardly to point out that someone who commands tens, and at times, hundreds of thousands of dollars for cards is a fraud. I put my name on here; I own up to the story. I tell this story for disclosure, Bill. He's submitted cards back to PSA for grading to get new serial numbers to dupe bidders (see THIS STORY HERE) as well as been in FEDERAL prison for fiscal purposes. I'm going to have to stick to my guns and say there's absolutely reason to bring up his past.

There's an old saying: "If you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas." A known crook and con man cheats on business dealings...why is this surprising?

reply to above comment by Justin
 

Justin, While I understand your above response, I still tend to disagree with much of your opinion on this situation. I'll leave it at that. HOWEVER, you then added a previous reference to an M116 situation some time ago.

If I remember correctly, this was one of the all-time most responses on Net 54 and shows how perception is not often reality. Shortly prior to the auction and Net 54 accusations, I had purchased PRIVATELY a large number of M116's from Buddy Mason. He is from Virginia and we met in Atlanta for the transaction. And while I don't recall all of the details of the situation, I do recall the following.........................

Some people referred to Buddy Mason as "Buddy" implying he was not real and a "JP alias" or someone representing JP/ML

Some posters got pissed at Buddy for not responding immediately after he had responded numerous times and then was not at a computer for a while...His not answering immediately at times was not good enough for the Salem Witch Hunters of Net 54..............

Some questioned whether there was really a non paying bidder or just a shill for JP when it seemed obvious that this S...K person , the non-paying bidder had screwed fellow members in previous transactions. That history of screwing fellow collectors seems enough for me to realize he wasn't a shill for JP.

And while I apologize for not recalling the specific details, accusations were made, partly because of pop report assumptions, regarding specific cards which were TOTALLY FALSE because I was the owner of the cards questioned, having bought them from Buddy before this ML situation ever occured.

Buddy was even questioned as to why he didn't consign to another company when it was obvious from the beginning that he had gotten an advance for the consignment and that consigning to another auction house would have created major problems. Also, ML did nothing wrong with the auction; SK renegged--so why should he have consigned to someone else.

The ONLY thing IMHO that ML could have done differently was state that the M116's had been given another cert # and why; but the IMPORTANT THING HERE IS THAT YOU BRING UP AN OLD SITUATION REGARDING JP AS IF TO PROVE HIS DISHONESTY BUT THE DISHONESTY WAS THAT OF S...K AND OF THE FALSE ACCUSATIONS OF SO MANY POSTERS HERE AT NET 54!!

If you and others don't like what someone did in their past, don't do business with them....But to try and find fault/dishonesty in every subsequent situation regarding the auction house BECAUSE of the past is unfair on y'alls part.

hope everyone is safe from the storm....Peace

Bill Latzko

For the most part I agree with Bill Latzko here. What JP did outside of the hobby didn't affect anyone in the hobby as far as I am aware. If I am not incorrect he paid for his issues (I don't know all of the details). All of my dealings with JP and his company, while in the hobby, have been fine and I have never had an issue with him. I continue to do business with his company and have never felt I was taken advantage of.
He has an issue with me :) because of what goes on on the board, but that is not something I can help. I don't tell people what to say or not to say, I just try to make sure everyone puts their name by their post. I am not condoning any bad behavior either. I realize some folks will never get past JPs past and that is their prerogative. But to equate a current situation, and say it is bad, because of what happened outside of the hobby several years ago, is unfair in my mind. Everyone can jump on the pile now. :)

Nice

It's okay to forgive JP's past, and do business with him. It's also okay to choose not to do business with somebody whose ethics you question. Either of those is fine.

What's not okay is to berate somebody for his ethical standards, but still do business with him because he has a card you need. That is being a hypocrite.

And my post is directed at nobody in particular.

As stuff trumps all for (I am guessing) most people, it's pretty easy to rehabilitate oneself in the sportscard/memorabilia industry.

I agree with Barry. Many (not all or even most) will criticize the ethics of an auction house, then buy from the auction house when it has something they need. Hypocrisy is a good word choice. Perhaps even worse, these buyers are helping keep in business an auction house that they claim is unethical-- hard to wash their hands of that.

I have no opinion on Mile High and have never bid in one of their auctions. Simply a case there are too many auction houses for me to follow closely. I have no opinion about and haven't bid in many auctions. Also I tend to find people go overboard in their criticism on chat boards, so I might take it as seriously as they wish me to. Not suggesting that they don't have a point.