T206 Ty Cobb...Broad Leaf 460???? **Auction Ended by Seller**
 

Anyone else think this is a composite card?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-AUT...8AAOSwav5apZ9N

If it was genuine it would be only the second known Cobb/ Broadleaf 460 :rolleyes:

I can't be sure from the scans, but the red flags are overwhelming.
- A virtually impossible combination.
- Comes from his uncle's collection, which by itself is suspicious. But what are the chances that the one card from his uncle that he is selling is a Cobb/ BL 460?
- While he mentions that he's selling Uncle Bob's collection, this is the only card that he's selling.
- The BS excuse about not getting it graded. Even in bad condition it's a $20K plus card, but he'll start the bidding at $50.
- And of course, he won't accept returns.

I've read worse excuses for not getting cards put into an SGC or PSA holder on the BST.

Front and back by themselves look real, but yes, I can see this being a Frankenstein card with the 2 parts glued together.

I agree with Sean -- if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... I mean man, they have put that card through every possible damage, especially the back - creasing, staining, rounded corners and a pen-mark "4". The red background on the front bothers me for some reason. As real as the back looks to me, under the totality of these circumstances, I just cant believe that this is an authentic Red Cobb BL 460 (Kinda like there was no way I would ever bid on a Candiman auction under those circumstances.... sorry, I couldn't help myself).

Ryan Hotchkiss

also feedback as a seller over a year ago.....

sounds like someone's account was hacked..

seller will take the funds...close the bank....then buyer will get money back from ebay 60 days later...post office wins..

Plus the other option is there will be the game of 'i sent it and it say received on tracking' and buyer saying never got....and insurance claim for seller/buyer..

If it is a reback it's very well done. no overhang anywhere and the one edge he shows us looks good. Of course why is he showing an edge view? That alone makes me suspicious. Someone is thinking "man I did a good job on this, I'll even show an edge view..."

its up to a whopping $360,,,

Six days out, the snipes are in.;)

hi frank lol

Well at this price it's still worth the $$$$ even if it is rebacked. If not...cha ching!

The one thing it does have going for it is that it doesn't appear to be a copy of Jamies.

I'll take a stab in the dark that someone who sells Pink Floyd T-shirts and Star Wars figurines doesn't have a high dollar Cobb laying around.

I tried to enlarge their scan but it does look re-backed.

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture...ictureid=24236

Thanks to the OP for outing the auction.

Why are there so many auctions being outed lately?

I get the underlying principle on what you're saying Andrew - but at the same time, this auction listing:

1. Is in the baseball cards category under Sports Mem (not Tobacciana or something else)

2. Has T206 in the title

3. Has Ty Cobb in the title

4. Has 1909-11 in the title

5. Has broad leaf in the title.


I just don't think that in this particular case, especially since it is more likely than not that this is probably fraud of some sort, that this listing needed any help in getting attention. It may have sped up the process by a couple days, but that's all.

This one is an obvious fraud, I can't imagine anyone actually thinking this card is good.

Very true Jeff. I could have found a better example to post the question.


Nate this is very true. Again was not the best auction to post that question

Anytime there is alleged fraud , nobody cares about people informing about it..thats what a forum is for.

I am sure sellers want their cards outed though in general..

please see post #17;)

If it's a fugazi, it should certainly be discussed on this board. If it's the real McCoy, it should certainly be discussed on this board. A genuine version of this card would be unique. I think this auction is blowing up beyond the seller's dreams-that is if the original intentions were nefarious.

Red flags are all there. The seller has gone from "what you see is what you get...all sales final" to "I WILL GUARANTEE." The story about PSA-I know that PCGS makes those types of recommendations, but why would PSA stop the seller from a direct (albeit pricey) submission? Why would they recommend dragging a third party into what could end up a legal battle?

Maybe Uncle Bob was a crafty SOB and skillfully slapped that card together. The seller passes that buck in the second edit. Maybe Bob got duped by the same one who sandwiched the Edwards' Wagner. Or maybe Bob was looking for rare back/front combos before anyone else in the hobby. We'll never know.

At 5:50 AM the seller added that he guaranteed that the card is authentic. That comes after this thread was started, which I'm guessing means that he is reading this thread.

the guarantee also still means nothing.....post office makes money with the mail going back and forth... insurance pays seller/buyer..argument of whether card was delivered and again..seller bank account closed so ebay cant get the funds back 30 days later but seller already has the proceeds in pocket

Certainly possible, I think the likely cause is bidders from this board making inquiries or uninformed bidders finding their way to this board through google searches, then making inquiries based on what they find here. If the seller is lurking here, that person should register and make themselves known.

I want to believe.

When viewing the card from the front, the crease seems to "smile", bowing down in shape, a hair...when looking at the crease from the back, it seems more straight, not curved, or...even slightly bowing in the opposite direction. Meaning, possibly two different creases (rebacked?).

If eBay doesn't get their funds back then maybe they would prevent future fraudulent items from being listed.

I hope someone here takes the gamble! Back looks good but hard to tell on the front from those scans. Why would anybody skin a BL 460. Sure it’s Cobb but any BL 460 is going to bring a lot of money. My guess is the front and back are both fake.

It would be great for the hobby if the card was an authentic Broad Leaf 460. Here is my theory on this card. Someone purchased a beater red Cobb, lightly sanded off the back and probably with a home printer they printed the Broad Leaf 460 reverse on it. You could easily get a BL460 reprint on eBay. Inside the deep back crease you can still see the brown ink, see attached pic. I could be wrong.
I say Jamie has the only one.

seller added 30 day money back guaranty. with paypal...not much to lose.

Maybe seller knows there is no way you can get that graded by PSA in 30 days right now.:eek::D

FWIW, it looks ok to me. If it's a fake, it's a good one. Just my opinion as a neutral observer. I'm not an expert, this isn't my auction, and I'm not planning to bid.

My red Cobb was purchased in a similar kind of auction: seller with no other cards for sale, low feedback, not a lot of details in the description, etc. I watched as it went through through two rounds of 7 day eBay auctions without a bid. After communicating with the seller, carefully examining the pictures, and making comparisons to other examples, I felt confident enough to bid on the card the third time around. I was the only bidder, and I got the card for $400. It was delivered promptly and I was thrilled to see for myself that it was definitely real.

Certainly, the card in question now is in a completely different league of scarcity and value than mine. But, crazy things do happen.

Good luck if you bid!

Screw psa...send it to sgc.

Doesn’t anyone see the “g” in cigarette. It should be missing ink in that deep crease. It’s obviously been put on, over the crease.

Only the two times you pointed it out!😬

How did that big red circle get on the card??:D

What are the dark marks along the crease on the backside?

Just received this message from seller...........

Hello Chad, as I stated in my listing yes, I would refund high bid if and only if card is a fake or rebacked (word of the day) lol I have an offer of $21,000 to end auction and 2 collectors flying out to view card before making an offer. Both collectors are aware of the $21,000 offer. Good luck bidding
regards
carmen

Seller might as well camp out at the airport for all the paparazzi flying out to see “the card!” Can’t wait to see how this plays out.

So much for a scam...

If this is true, he should be ending the auction before long. :rolleyes:

If that's the case, then he'll owe eBay $2,100 in Final Value Fees and probably get suspended for pulling a live auction with a paper trail.

I smell another Blue Old Mill fiasco. It looks fake on my computer screen, everything is fake! And the famous line "there can be only one". Blah Blah. There is red ink in the crease on the front too geniuses! Does the ink magically disappear when it gets creased?

Auction was ended by the seller

no doubt purchased by one of the businessmen who flew in to see it...or maybe off to a big auction house like the blue om back?

Crazy, man. Crazy

Maybe Uncle Bob had second thoughts??

And consigned it to Candiman auctions

"who can take a sunrise?"

Several people have asked my opinion on the card... I would like to see it slabbed before I go ahead and say now there are 2 known... there were several red flags that would have stopped me from offering the big bucks this card would demand.. uncle bob sure has one hell of a rare card if its real.... but how many people with a collection of less then 30 cards (was what the seller told me)... will have a cobb BL 460... a collection of only 30 cards contains this card?... the odds are stacked against such a story being true....

I believed the card to be perfectly authentic when I viewed the auction.

I think you will see it in the pop reports as an authentic or a 1 in the
near future.

What I wonder is why would an Ebay seller without any feedback in over a year suddenly come up with a wonder like this. And why would he not use a reputable auction house rather than the Ebay platform? The $21,000 offer sounds nice but........

I hope youre right!

Speaking of... anyone know where that card is now. That is always a good debate about authenticity too.

If its too good to be true it usually is...people stop auctions early all the time when they are fakes...

However, lets say this is a real card...the sad part is there will be plenty of new sellers with fraud on their minds with shady listings that will have potential buyers remember this sale and think 'maybe this listing is real too'..

I'm glad the seller is doing what is right for him and his family.

Having the card rejected by PSA isn't the best for the family. Having hopeful people bidding on the not yet revealed bogus card would bring a higher dollar amount and be better for the family at least money wise..

The seller pulled the card because he got cold feet. The amount on eBay went too high. Too many inquiries and offers. Too many red flags, starting with the Uncle Bob story, then being posted on eBay and not sent to an AH. The original eBay write up with no returns. No one here has seen the card, I don’t think anyone will.
I feel it’s a doctored card, (card surgeon) cheap beater Cobb made into a BL460. It won’t be the first time, won’t be the last.
This was said already. If it’s too good to be true, it usually is.

North of 6 figures? Does this mean we finally have our answer to "What's the next million dollar card?"

100,000= 6 figures

Yes, and north of six figures would make it 7 - $1,000,000. Unless the seller considers the cents as part of the figures then it would be north of $9,999.99

I interpreted the verbiage to mean more than 100,000. Ill eat my yankees hat if someone offered 1 million for that card.

If I had that card and someone offered me one million dollars for it I would attend a professional sporting event of any of the 4 major sports.

Grandfather's attic.

Selling due to family issues.

Can't send it into PSA or SGC because of insert any reason.

for sale....$1,000,000 .. put your mind to rest.. its already graded.. not found in my grandparents attic... :)
https://i.imgur.com/8w30BS1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/aEye1rf.jpg

And to think I paid $10 for it :(

Found in Broadway Ricks Auction circa 2000 for provenance.

For the record, I think the ebay card was real as well.

This card really is becoming like the Blue Old Mill. :D

To clarify, I paid $10 for the one Jamie has, I bought a lot of 180 T206's in a Broadway Rick SCD Auction about 20 years ago. Had the Cobb BL 460, Chase Trophy Brown Lenox and a few others among the group. $1,800 for the 180 cards, that was the opening and only bid. There was only a small description with no photos. I call Rick Kohl and all he could say was what a fantastic deal it was, the entire time I was trying to ask pertinent questions. So, I just placed the opening bid and let it ride.

Apparently based on that, very few people here would of believed it real, but it was.

I had 4-5 other BL 460's and eventually traded the card to Art, who bugged me for years to get it.

Blue Old Mill. Show of hands from guys with opinions who actually held and looked at the card....

Anyway I have yet to meet anyone that held that card raw and drew the conclusion it was fake. I would love to proven wrong about that card though!

[QUOTE

I had 4-5 other BL 460's and eventually traded the card to Art, who bugged me for years to get it.[/QUOTE]

So bugging you for years, is all it takes. I thought one night of drinking in the Hotel bar could work to!

I saw it. It did not appear altered to me.

Please observe my thoughts on the card in the attached image below:

1. Center: creasing on the front seems to be intentional/recent, indicating artificial aging.
2. Top left: creasing on top left seems enunciated on the front but is hardly visible on the back. Possible discrepancy due to lighting and photos.
3. Top right; indentation seems to be significantly larger on the front than the back.
4. Bottom left; spider creasing seems significant on the back for the major crease and completely absent for the two minor creases; again, possible discrepancy due to lighting and photos.
5. Arrows on reverse: a streak of yellow would likely indicate shading issues/sunlight exposure/highlighter or pen markings. No such residual evidence is found on the front as the coloring/tinting seems to be excellent.

These are things that would cause me to stay away if the card was ungraded by a professional. Not all of these observations would immediately disqualify the card for me, but without holding it in hand, raw or graded, I would not buy it.

NJ Dunkin

http://i64.tinypic.com/20svko8.jpg

I also handled the Blue Old Mill and based on a fairly good examination, also felt it was probably good.

So bugging you for years, is all it takes. I thought one night of drinking in the Hotel bar could work to![/QUOTE]

Reminds me of one of my favorite movies, Glenngary Glennross. "Don`t open your mouth until you know the shot".

T206 Ty Cobb Broad Leaf 460
 

I will always be grateful to Scott for selling me the Cobb with BL460 back.

Unfortunately had to sell that one for financial reasons around the year 2001 and still regret that decision every day.

Hi Art, nice to hear from you. I'm curious if you have an opinion on this second Cobb/ BL460? :)

The card looks good to me. I'll be interested to see where it pops up for sale in a TPG holder.

Has anyone noticed that the registration on both cards is off the same? Look at the eyes.

I’ve been collecting T206 for 25 years...I held the blue old mill at the Baltimore Nat’l, so did Wonka...We both felt it was real...he in fact, made a substantial offer on the card that was declined...it then went to auction.

Ok.. someone (who would like to remain anonymous) have inspected the card in person and failed the test. We can all put this subject RIP. Cheer.