When was this magical time when there was a system, where I can assume only real autographs were sold because only experienced dealers were selling them? I don't remember such a time.

There are still educated, experienced dealers who stand behind their autographs. Some of the very best post here regularly. Before PSA existed, there were anonymous companies certing autographs with unknown authenticators. Just as it was in the 80s, it is up to buyers to determine if what they purchase is real. I agree that too many blindly trust JSA and PSA/DNA, but those are the same people that have always blindly trusted LOAs of all stripes.

I stopped at "Dominos."

That's when all credibility was lost. :p :D



* Disclaimer.

This posting was a joke. A tongue-in-cheek comment. No malice or harm was intended to Dominos Pizza or any participant in this discussion forum.

I provide consulting services for space-related autographs to James Spence Authentication, LLC (JSA) among other entities. The opinions posted here by me are my own and do not represent any entity for which I provide service.

http://www.comiccollecting.org/forum...on_e_angle.gif

My only pizza story is when I was in high school, I knew a guy who worked at Domnos-type pizza place (For the legal record, I don't think it was Dominos). He chewed tobacco and one time fell out out of his mouth onto the pizza he was making. He thought for a second, then finished the pizza with the chewing tobacco in it.

His name was Brian, if I recall correctly.

Let's see if Travis can work that into his TPA storyline.

If it was anchovy, I wouldn't have noticed.

I once made a pizza for Jack Nicklaus.

Does anyone know if PSA, JSA, SCG, or BGS has an option to slab an autograph without authentication or grade. I basically know my autos are real and only want them encapsulated.

there are attractive plastic holders you can buy yourself and snap them in that is reversible and sturdy, you don't need sonic welded encapsulation. That's all anyone needs to protect their autograph.

http://www.the2buds.com

these guys have everything under the sun in every size, screw downs, snap-ins. etc.

That's exactly my point! Thanks for driving home my point. When Domino's (a company you think is a joke!) provides more information about who makes my cheap pizza than psa and jsa (companies that are suppose to be reputable) can provide about who looks at and authenticates my very expensive autograph, then Houston, we have a problem!

Fair enough, but I REALLY hope that you can realize that comparing autograph authentication to pizza delivery as a service is a much closer analogy than using child care or gas line repair. These four services are all ones I have used, and I take the latter two seriously and the former two VERY lightly.

Would you have still had that pizza even if Habib didn't make it? Why is that? How long has Habib been in the pizza business? Can he tell a frozen sausage from a fresh sausage?

Me thinks you still would have had that pizza because of the reputation and marketing of Dominos Pizza. Not because of Habib's knowledge of preparing the pie,or because of any aspect of his pizza making skills. Even though Dominos has served burnt pizzas, pizza with saliva as the secret sauce, as well as even completely lost orders, you still patronize their business.

It's because most of the time you feel you know what you are going to get, you are fine with their level of service and accept their error rate, and you are fine with their price point for the product you receive. Doesn't matter to you that it's Habib, it matters that it's Dominos.

+1- Correct!

This thread is a bit surreal, really: isn't it a bit premature to judge SGC's service before it even starts? Who grades a card doesn't prove jack-squat about whether it is graded properly. The proof is in the results. Simply saying "it's gonna be crap" is as much a guess as simply assuming it will be good. How about trying the actual product before judging it?

When the SGC haters have something concrete to show, then it is worth a three-page debate. Until then, this thread has all the weight of a popcorn fart.

Buttered or non-buttered? I am thinking extra oil equals stronger poot.

The problem is how do collectors judge how good they are? it's not accuracy, it is whether or not they get the cert and they can buy and sell on ebay and auction houses. If it gets slabbed and accepted on ebay and the auction houses, then they are doing a great job, aren't they, regardless of whether or not they are accurate? These are two different things. my standard of whether or not a company is doing a good job is whether or not they are accurate, period.

We have already heard collectors say that if psa says its good, thats good enough for them, even if the autograph is no good, because they can sell it in the slab and that's all they are looking for.


Why even send it to this new service when psa and jsa are doing such a bang up job??? if this new service just takes any evander holyfield "signed" trading card and encapsulates it, then they will be doing a great job too!!!!

Most collectors only want the certs and slabs and couldn't care if they are accurate and wouldn't now how to judge accuracy anyway, because when someone like me points it out, i get accused of "cherry picking" and nitpicking. It's only accuracy, it's not like it is the ability to buy and sell on ebay and auction houses, which is all that counts to most collectors. Don't mess with that. Accuracy falls by the wayside and is a secondary concern if it is a concern at all.

CLARIFICATION, someone said "before it even starts." It has started!!!! We just don't know who the authenticators are, if they are going to disclose who looks at the autograph or not, if they are going to show exemplars they used, if they are going to give a "detailed" explanation if the autographh fails. All of these questions are unanswered. I have sent them emails and haven't got a response. It will probably be a psa and jsa "clone job". Just slab them and keep going. Keep the collectors happy, bread and circuses. And it exists this way because the big services want it to be this way, they don't want a focus on accuracy, just acceptability in the hobby, which they can influence and control without them necessarily being accurate. Once it turns into an accuracy standard, then they are in trouble, they don't want that, because then they would be required to be accurate! So they keep touting the acceptability standard, GO WITH US, IT WILL BE ACCEPTED IN THE AUCTION HOUSES AND ON EBAY!

There are two kinds of real, abc and xyz company real, and 'actually real'. A lot of collectors are only concerned with abc and xyz real, they couldn't care less about actually real because i have emailed some and PROVED that their slabbed autograph is only abc and xyz real, and is not actually real and they tell me to go jump in the lake.

Someone send me a PM and tell me who michael root is, and why he has less than 1 YEAR's exposuire on JSA's expert page, and how that qualifies him to be the lead authenticator for this company? How many certs has he signed in the past? What is his specialty category? Anything about this guy????? And why is considered taboo to ask questions about a new guy authenticating?

Because certain people here and elsewhere don't want the answers to come about. they want the status quo because the status quo slabs their autographs, pays their bills and keeps them on the coat-tail train. We wouldn't want an accuracy and transparency and accountability debate to break out because that threatens the good thing they (the collectors, the hobby insiders and others who profit) have going. I have gotten banned from another site (some autograph periodical joke site) for saying these things, but thank God for free speech here. I have to give this site credit for that.

If you want proof of this 'homerism' in the hobby, just go to another site where someone gives an article on SGC, touting its credentials in autograph authentication (there are some?)

Then in the comment section below, someone asks if their autographs are going to be worth the same with an sgc cert as opposed to the other big two companies.

The article writer then chimes in and says that SGC is a brand name and they should be on par with psa and jsa in that regard. So it's psa, jsa, and SGC.

Remember SGC "hasn't even started yet" according to some, but to give them praise is allowable and expected, but to question and have criticism is not allowed!!!!!!!!! Funny world, isn't it?

I then go to the comment section and ask this same editor "how can you call them on par when they are a card grading service only and have NO autograph authenticating experience at all prior to announcing they are now accepting autographs for authentication?" I then go on to say that Betty Crocker is a brand name, but if they started authenticating autographs, how does that make them credible in that regard? SGC grades cards.

Guess what? I got no response and that is typical. the article writer was breaking his arm responding to the first poster who asked if sgc authentications would be worth as much as psa and jsa, because he wanted to make sure to "prime the pump" and tell people not to worry, that sgc authentications will be on par with the others.

But when someone asks a tough question, he follows the company line, which is prevalent within the autograph hobby, and clams up, and doesn't answer. Because he HAS NO ANSWER for this question, it is out of bounds, and it is a question that should be buried because it questions the status quo, where only certain companies are allowed to drink out of the trough and wet their beak so to speak, and others who are not connected into the "program" get shut out and can't get any publicity.

A lot of people here know this is true but won't admit it because they don't want to be on the "outs" with the people who have the power to influence the collector. So they shut up too and go along with the gravy train that is set up for some and not for others, and it's by design. And the people that agree with me are afraid to post too out of fear of retaliation, but they send me a PM or an email telling me they agree. There are only a few who aren't afraid to tell the truth on the public forums.

Disclosure--, i am not an authenticator for jsa or auction house, or psa, and i don't take consideration from any of these, I authenticate for myself only and for a few friends who know where to go to get an honest, accurate opinion on boxing autographs.

Travis, all any TPG submitter is looking for is an opinion from a neutral source, no more and no less. It may be right, it may be wrong, but as long as the vast majority of collectors accepts it as useful, TPG authentication is here to stay. Either accept it or don't accept it, but either way please stop whining about the rampant corruption you see under every rock, behind every bush, etc. in the callous, cruel, unfair world of autograph authentication, because it's getting tiresome. We get it; you don't like PSA, SGC, JSA, BVG, or any other TPG service provider and you consider yourself to be the ultimate in honest, accurate opinions on boxing autographs. Bravo, good for you, here's your cookie. Now, move on.

So, anyone still collect autographs?

I tell ya, this is more tiring than me whining bout how broke I am:rolleyes:. WE KNOW you don't like the TPA's Travis, but constant bashing of them isn't going to change people's minds that rely on them most of the time.

At least people are THINKING now, bout authenticating themselves, etc. and not just relying on Gospel. But, only some. To you, it really seems sometimes. like they couldn't authenticate Joe Torre if he was standing in front of you.

Lord almighty. Seventeen pages of spam to reach that conclusion. I actually read it all for "educational purposes" over a period of days.

I like TPG because they make it easier for me to sell vetted items and I get a better price. That is the bottom line. Strictly financial for me. The prices on autographs have reached the place where TPG are not only needed but necessary. When I first started collecting them about 1970 everything was cheap and not an issue. Today it is much different. The money has changed everything and no point in pretending it hasn't.

TPG are not going away, in fact there will be more of them going forward, so all of you TPG haters just GET OVER IT.

+1 on the card side. I only collect non-graded, but am moving toward only selling graded cards. It's easier, faster and fewer returned items.

It appears that I'm much the same as you regarding cards. I like them raw, so when I do buy graded cards I generally do a crackout (with a few exceptions for very high-end grades). I don't sell raw, only graded.

I'm not advocating anything or any company or any authentication process in this post, but no matter how ignorant one thinks are the buyers, if one completely ignores what they want one won't be a successful seller.

If you sit sit down and think about it, you're selling sports collectibles-- not too far removed from selling Beanie Babies and Barbie Dalls. It's not always so horrible to cater to some of want the buyers wants, even when you think the wants are useless or rather dumb. If the buyer wants some sparkly sprinkles in the packaging for her used Barbie Doll, it won't send you to Hell to put some sparkly sprinkles in the packaging.

And, no, I firmly believe items received should be as advertised, including the authenticity. I never suggested or implied anything other.

And do I disagree with some popular collecting 'rules' and auction industry conceits and am able to understand how someone else could have a serious bone to pick with TPAs or card grading? Sure. A few pop hobby rules make me roll my eyes to reach for the blood pressure medication.

And, for the record, I've never paid for a LOA or to have a card graded or anything to to a collectible encapsulated, laminated or hermetically boxed, bagged, fused or housed.

And if I sold Barbie Dolls and learned little girls like sparkly sprinkles in their packaging, I'd go right over to Rite Aid and by a bag of sparkly sprinkles.

I think some people on this board sometimes forget we're not talking about how to solve the Middle East Issue, we're talking about about kids collectibles that, technically, we should have lost interest in when we turned 14.

And, once again, I firmly believe that items should be correctly identified and described at sale, whether its a George Washington letter or a 1978 Topps George Brett or a Malibu Barbie party dress accessory. I never said or implied anything other.

DRC -- Have you ever considered running for congress? We could use someone with your common sense.

Once big money arrived on the sports collectibles market, and that took some time to evolve, it was inevitable that TPG
authentication would evolve as it did for coins and other collectibles.

I see TPG as a case of a rising tide lifting all boats. I think it's increased the value of peoples collections, both graded and
raw cards. People that couldn't sell their duplicate raw cards for a reasonable price are doing very well selling them graded. TPG
has helped a small online market mushroom. Think about it. Even during a bad economy and less disposable income for many
people, the sports collectible market has held it's own. And the high end graded cards and autos are not only holding value, but
getting more and more at auction.

Collectors want good quality items and TPG increases the odds that they can achieve that goal. Is it a perfect system? No.
Do injustices and mistakes happen? Yes. Are some graders less than perfect? I believe so. But would the market we see
today be different without TPG? Hugely IMHO.

I could never win. My mom's maiden name is French.

You seem to know an awful lot about Barbies drc! :)

I thought about the stigma as I was writing. I wanted to use an silly kids toy as an example and nearly used GI Joe.

My friends have a 5 year old daughter so I'm not entirely ignorant about Barbie and her accessories. I've seen in person her kitchen set.

For the record, most of Barbie's autographs on the market are autopen.

Hmmmmmm... I'd always heard that Ken signed for her. Secretarial by her boy-toy.

Does anyone have an opinion on SGC authenticating so far? I have seen some of their pieces pop up on eBay and everything so far looks good.

I've submitted a bunch of stuff to them and they've been more cautious than the other TPGs--perhaps overly so--even rejecting cards that JSA has already passed and other cards that were sourced directly from someone in MLB.

I talked to a dealer the other day and I asked him the opinion of the job SGC has done so far in autograph authentication and his response was, "SGC is by far the most conservative of the three authentication companies (JSA, PSA, SGC)."

Scg
 

I agree- they came back with a" not sure "of some signed callahans I had that I know were good.

These are a couple autographs that I found on an online auction that were authenticated by SGC but look a little odd to me (I'm a novice at this, so how it looks to me doesn't mean much). How do they look to you folks?

Thanks.

Mantle is fine IMO

Robinson
 

If SGC said the Robinson is good then its good..They have a true Robinson expert working for them in customer service. Amazing how fast their turnaround times have been recently.

The one card I submitted was 75$ for auto and card grade, just the card grade at PSA would have been 15-25

I believe they have a $12 autograph special for April.

Ditto.

The Mantle is authentic.

They actually have a special now for $8 for authenticating most autographs (grading is an additional $10, and they don't encapsulate baseballs). I'm thinking of giving them a shot at some recent purchases - my HOF balls are for my collection, not resale, but when I'm gone I anticipate my kids will sell them. Some non-HOF balls I have, particularly team-signed for teams other than Orioles, I would be selling now, as well as some duplicate HOF balls I have. Obviously, there's no way to predict - as someone said on one of these threads, any respected authenticator is one scandal away from losing that respect. But, what do you folks think about the credibility of SGC for resale now and down the road? Evertyhing I've read on this thread has been very positive about them, and their prices are certainly better than the others, but I don't want to be penny-wise and pound foolish. Thanks!

Of the SGC autographs I've seen and am reasonable familiar with, I have not seen a single one that I would say is fake.

The more competition in the autograph authenticating business, the better for the hobby.Their prices are certainly much better, and their reputation is building. Anything is better then a two party system.