'William Tell Research' Autograph Authentication?
 

Anyone familiar with these people? The authenticator's name is Frank Garo.

He is one step above Morales.

If Frank Garo is a step above Morales, you're a 1000 steps below everyone else with your smug, sanctimonious diatribes against everyone that you do not deign to have "clean hands". I and many other collectors have used Frank Garo and found him to not only be good but HONEST. Unfortunately, he's not in the "big boys" loop and gets lumped together with incompetents by know it alls like you. By the way Mr. Jaffe, unlike you, Mr. Garo has never been in trouble with the law and does not wake up every day a convicted felon.
Martin Green

This sounds like a troll like set up of some sorts. Jaffe has done a great deal to repair his image and is well respected now. Who better to know and report what other authenticators and companies are doing? Hey, didn't Mr. Garo fail the HBO Real Sports test?

Dan

Dan - I certainly don't think he is a troll; just someone voicing his opinion which is fine to do. After all, he did post his name, too.

Gee, I watched TV when 2 of James Spence's "authenticators" looked stupid calling a fake auto real. Everyone still thinks spence is ok. As far as I'm concerned none of these guys give a positive id to any of this stuff. Only an opinion. You know what. I can do that to. It's all bologna. Theres tons of stuff out there that has been called good by all of them that is probably fake. The whole thing is a joke. So who is to say with certainty that one is good and one is bad. NO ONE>

Any other opinions? The item I'm interested in is kind of expensive, and I don't want to waste the cash if this person's opinions are unlikely to be agreed upon w/ either JSA or PSA/DNA.

Dalkiel

Why not post the item here and let us "EXPERTS" render our opinions? Everyone has an opinion and at least these are free.

Martin Green

Shelly Jaffe has certainly done a lot of good for the hobby in the past years.
I agree with most of his autograph opinions.
I do not agree with many of the autograph opinions I have seen of Mr Garo.

I have never seen anything "authenticated" by Garo that wasn't manifestly bad.

His opinion is not respected at all (and rightly so), and thus his authentication will neither protect you, nor help with a future re-sale.

Mr. Akatz:

You're entitled to your opinions but they are not only unfair but very inaccurate.

Martin Green

Here are a couple scans:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...el23/babe1.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...el23/babe2.jpg

....

Hi-
The key to me with any authenticator is using actual exemplars of signatures. Martin, most of us on this board trust David A (for early Yankees and other early baseball material), Richard Simon, and Jodi B based on their extensive knowledge (shared frequently on this board) and because of their enormous libraries and collections. If you want us to trust this guy, we need to know a lot more about him. Does he have an extensive collection (or library) of autograph examples? Could you (or he) provide examples of some items he has authenticated? Richard, Jodi, and David have proven their knowledge and expertise with countless posts on Net54. I completely trust their opinions based on the knowledge they have provided. I (and many others on this board) have never heard of Frank, and the ones that have (whom I trust), do not have the highest opinion of him. That is enough for me to make up my mind unless this person can back up his knowledge (like the three I mentioned). This of course is just my opinion.
Alan Elefson
aelefson@hotmail.com

Hi Alan,
You make a good point. The best person to direct those questions to is Mr. Garo himself. I can only tell you of my experiences. He's no rubber stamp for anyone and unlike most authenticators does not buy or sell autographs. He's turned down a lot of autographs from me and fellow collectors and explained in detail why and sent exemplars he got from the Halper Collection and the HOF.

Martin Green

I'd like to add my two cents re the Ruth autograph. It looks good to me but I make no claims to being an expert.

Martin Green

I will refrain from.commenting on the posted example but can say without any doubt that I have seen highly qustionable items authenticated by this person. I would proceed with extreme caution...

Question
 

David,
I have a quick question that this thread reminded me of. Using a Ruth autographed photo as a medium and assuming that the signatures were genuine, is there an appreciable difference in what one could expect to pay btw a signed photo of The Babe in uniform (Yankees) and one of him in street clothes?

Jeff

First off, anyone can come here with a fake name and disrespect people. That was my point when I used the word "troll".

Second, how much is the asking price for this piece, if I may ask? Items authenticated by...well, those whose certs were photographed on the HBO Real Sports episode is usually sold quite cheaply. A bargain!

Lastly, 8x10 signed photos in baseball garb usually fetches $3,500+ and civilian clothing, maybe $2,000-2,500 depends on uniqueness.

Dan

Mr. Bluebirds,

I was just curious as to what convinced you to use Mr. Garo for your authentication needs?

Mr McMurry

I used Mr Garo because I heard good things about him and have never been disappointed. Whether my items have been good or bad, he thoroughly explains why. Have had no trouble selling with his cert.

Despite the negative comments, not one "expert" or even "pseudo expert" has come forward and said the Ruth signature is bad.

This forum has some fine enlightened members who are fair, honorable and knowledgeable. But as with any group there are always a few who have there own agenda and get great pleasure ripping someone's name and reputation based on rumor, innuendo and just plain lies.

I guess it's easier to curse the darkness then light a candle and seek the truth.

The reason I said he was a step above morales is that he got 2 correct on the HBO show which is two more than Morales. I can also tell you that he authenticated a lot of Marion's items. This does not make him a bad guy but I would not use him.

Maybe there's a conspiracy, maybe not. I have never seen anything positive about William Tell Research. If you comb the auction catalogs of major auction houses of Lelands, Legendary(formerly Mastro), Hunts, Robert Edward Auctions, Heritage, SCP, or any others, I can not remember ever seeing an item in there authenticated by William Tell Research. I don't specifically search that out but if he were so universally appreciated and acclaimed, you'd think his work would find it's way into such catalogs. So.....as with all authenticators........caveat emptor.............

I have not a clue about
 

Mr. Garo's ability to authenticate items. However; he has been active in the hobby for three decades and has had many big names at his shows when he promoted shows back in the day. Plus; as GS Gallery; he was a big time dealer.

So at least he has old-time experience.

Regards
Rich

Mr Jaffe:
Who is "Marion"? If you meant Marino, Mr Garo was just getting started full time when Operation Bullpen went down. He had nothing to do with the Marino's or any of their dealer outlets and was never questioned by law enforcement. To say otherwise is a bald face lie. Has he made errors? Absolutely but so has anyone else. What is worse? A few errors or deliberately being involved in a criminal organization ripping off people knowingly selling forgeries like you so greedily did.

As for that pathetic, second rate HBO show you're always touting as the Rosetta Stone of authentication, you were so proud of it you used a phony name and hid your identity. A real test would've been to have everyone check the same items, not different ones. Who got the easy ones? Who got the hard ones? I'm sure it was just a coincidence your bosom buddy and chief defender was the "co-winner".

Mr Boblitt

From having spoken to Mr Garo re the major auction houses, his items have been in all of them only under a different authenticator's name. You'll have to ask the auction houses but I'll toss this out to chew on. Demorats and Republicans fight each other tooth and nail. But when it comes to a third party threatening them, they suddenly unite to fight it. I hardly think the biggest names in authentication or card grading want competition.

"his items have been in all of them only under a different authenticator's name"

Things that make you go hmmmmm..............

Mr Boblitt,
Go hmmmmmm if you want but the sports memorabilia business can be and is as down and dirty as any other business.

Martin Green

"bluebirds" aka Martin.....banned
 

I have received information leading me to believe that this "Martin" person is a shill and is a troll. So, with our new registration system I checked everything out. Fake phone number on registration. "Martin" is now banned. Thanks to the anonymous tip I received.....

ps...I don't count this as a banning of a known person since we have no idea who this is.....

Everyone duck - Leon is swinging liberally :)
http://www.g1-news.com/wp-content/up...ban_hammer.jpg

Good
 

He was giving obscure Buffalo Springfield and Fleetwood Mac songs a bad name.

the original poster in this thread....a shill too?
 

For the record I am also having some doubt about the original poster of this thread. I don't have the 2nd part of his registration, his contact info, and just emailed him to get it. If I don't get a response he too will be banned. I have a sinking feeling that this whole thread was a shill......I hope I am wrong but .......This new board s/w and processes are earning their keep.....

Who didn't think this was all but a lark to promote a little know authenticator who according to his site, had complained about eBay's autograph policies to the government and perhaps some staged banter between friends could help accomplish some goals.

As some of you know, I collect scans and I went through my large (thousands and thousands) library and just randomly picked out a few for you to all enjoy.

1) Gehrig Ball- Coach's Corner Sports Auctions, 8/2006. Sold for $900.
2) Gehrig Ball- Ebay, removed on 3/4/06
3) Ruth Signature- Ebay, removed on 1/7/07 and removed on 3/16/07.

Want more, "Mr. Green"?

Shout out to danc, who called it imediately.

My guess is that Bluebird has a web site somewhere that sells lots of items with William Tell certs.



Also Jodi, dont forget Paul McCartney.;)

You guys crack me up. Everything is a huge conspiracy. Sorry I had the nerve to ask for opinions on this guy. I must have an ulterior motive.

If I may quote Meet the Parents, "....I'd say you have a future in espionage."

Dalkiel
 

Do you really blame anyone for thinking it could be a set up given there was already a shilling troll in this thread? :confused:

edited to add one other thing.....in looking at a previous email exchange I certainly am leaning to the side of you not being a shill to start with....but that doesn't change the fact we have the right to be wary given the above circumstances.

Though I have no clue what a shill troll is, I find it a bit disheartening that everyone's first pessimistic reaction is to go on a witch hunt over some random person asking if anyone was familiar with an autograph authenticator. :confused:

well
 

I sort of made up the word "troll shill" .....but it sounded right.:o A person coming into the forum under the guise of someone else only to set up a person or company for a nefarious reason. It's no witch hunt when there is one in this thread, imo. I do understand your being unhappy but such is internetville. We aren't happy when we have imposters on the forum either. best regards

"I am shocked, shocked to find shilling and trolling here",,, "here are your winnings sir"

--

Yes, he is awesome and his ability to detect is awesome- he has been doing this for a least 15 years or longer. A fine gentlemen to talk to also.;)

;)

The shill who got booted stated "Mr Garo was just getting started full time when Operation Bullpen went down" yet the latest post states Mr Garo has been around for 15 years. Which is it? Guys you should get your story straight before posting here.

Richard.....that looks like a winking smiley face in Dick's post. I'm going to take that to mean that it's a tongue in cheek comment. I thought when I first saw this that something was up. Nice catch Leon...............

I certainly apologize if that remark was tongue in cheek,,,
at least Leon got rid of that shill,, wonder who it was ??

I think what they mean
 

Is that Mr. Garo began authenticating around when OB went down. However; as stated earlier; he has been in the hobby for a long time. His dealing and show promoting background is not the same as autograph authentication.

to be clear
 

I don't think the original poster, who started this thread, is a shill, from the communications we have had. No doubt this bluebirds idiot WAS a shill.....or at least is a bogus person on the board.....well, now banned from the board.

The scans listed with the Ruth signature looks just like one that was sold on eBay last summer/fall. If it is the same one it sold for around $1500 or so. I figured eBay did not boot it because the signature was difficult to verify the authenticity.

As I understand it, this item was purchased on eBay, so it's likely the same.

quick update on bluebirds
 

I had a fairly long phone conversation with "Bluebirds", Martin Green, today. There was a reason there was a faulty number, it had been changed. He has been reinstated, I have his new #, and he feels Garo does a good job. I just moderate and try to keep it real, folks..........

Anyone with an educated opinion on the Ruth auto?

Please forgive me for pasting a portion of my earlier post. (My first) I think it's applicable to this topic as well and didn't feel like retyping it. As I read this thread I found myself agreeing with Bluebird and saw how quickly he was set upon because he disagreed with some. I'm glad he turned out to be legit and was reinstated. Good diligence Leon.


I have little use for 3rd party authenticators who sell their wares and denounce anyone other than their friends items or their own merchandise. One claims a so called double major from an Ivy league university. First item in the resume and is apparently a documented lie. As many of these bogus and laughably inflated resumes seem to be. PSA and JSA are not the end all to beat all either. Another proudly claims to have obtained 100,000 "in person" autographs in 20 years. That's 1 per hour, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, for twenty years. (And still 10,000 short) Sorry, I have trouble believing that. These are the same folks that are quick to call other items fake. I even had an "in person" Ali called a forgery. Not that it couldn't be verified authentic (which is fine) but an outright forgery. I believe these same folks are involved with ebay and can bounce items seemingly at will. Although I've never sold an autograph on ebay so I'm not too familiar how that works. They all have their own agenda and in most cases, I think it's driven by greed. Liars and crooks are killing this hobby. (No offense Shelly, but you did plenty of damage prior to seeing the light, AFTER you were caught) And there are plenty of them.

The one thing that has to stop is the Shelly Jaffe bashing. He was a small fish in all of it, he got in trouble, did his time and while others are surely still involved in one way or another in betraying more victims, or even simply being silent, Shelly is no longer associated with his past and has become quite vocal about the current state of this business.

Who better to know how these crooks operate than a one-time member of that familiar world. After all, Frank Abagande whose life was depicted in the movie "Catch Me If You Can" was one of the biggest document and check forgers, and after twelve years of imprisonment, he now owns a successful business that helps detect forgeries. There is no difference to what Frank does and what Shelly is doing. He knows what you guys are doing and that just pisses you off, doesn't it?

The one comment that I found amusing is the "didn't get caught" theory. The hobby is absolutely littered with fraudulent characters who have never been caught, will never get caught, have been caught or are soon to be caught.

If you take a piece of paper and forge Babe Ruth's name on it, YOU ARE A CRIMINAL!, whether you get caught or not...Title 18, statute 1341, Mail Fraud (as well as Wire Fraud)--profitting off false pretences...and along those same lines you have Wire Fraud and counts which involve perpetrating a scheme and using the U.S Mail service to assist in the distribution of fraudulent goods. The tough part for the law is proving that you are a thief, not an idiot...in regards to you "knowingly" selling bogus merchandise. If you are knowingly selling fraudulent goods, YOU ARE A CRIMINAL!

Oh, when the Morales thread was running strong, I was harrassed by this one e-mailer and now he has returned to harrass me. Hmmmm...

Lastly, how many people on this thread come from the wonderful state of PA? :rolleyes: Show of hands please !!!!!!!!