Auction House Shipping Price, what is reasonable?
 

I won a few lots from Hunt's internet auction. 5 graded cards and a large item that can fold up. Total cost $320 not including BP and SH which was $15. I think $15 was fair for that group of items.

I then win a single ungraded card from another auction house.
Total was $520 not including BP and SH. Shipping $18.50. I think that is RIDICULOUS for a single card.

They did refund me $10 after I brought this to their attention but they also defended their pricing.

So I would like to know what some of you think?

And don't be shy, heck, I have been wrong before. Shut up Leon!

Don't worry Dan. I am too busy looking for N370s and N167s to sell to Jay and Jim. Now back to the hunt. ;)

Perfect! Then you can't tell me how many times I have been wrong!!!

Dan, I agree. So that would be a second "Amen" for something you've said this week. That has me thinking that you're old and unreasonable like me... we may well be in the minority on this, but I think $18.50 is through the roof nutz!!!

For one card (other than insurance) anything more than $5.00 is a rip off!!! Heck for the amount of money they get on the BP (personaly I think 15 - 20% is a joke) They should be shipping things at no charge! For some reason the BP and sometime SP at even 10% just doesn't sit well with me let alone some at 20%. Now having said that I don't know how much work they really put into an auction but there are alot of people out there doing the same thing there own sites or using other sites and not paying/charging that kind on %. Just my .02 cents

I'm curious as to others experience with Mears, after my last debacle with their shipping department. :confused:

I just checked the USPS site - insurance to ship an item with a declared value of $520 would be $7.90.

So even if the card was sent Priority for another 5 bucks, that brings the total to $12.90.

$18.50 makes it sound like shipping is a profit center for the auction company!

$18.50 for that would drive me crazy. What would also drive me crazy is paying over the top shipping prices and also getting an email that my item will go out in the next 10 business days - (not the auction house you're speaking of). If you're going to drag me over the coals for a shipping price, at least get the damn thing in the mail!

Shipping should be "at cost", nothing more... No handling charges. However, if shipping and handling charges are clearly stated up front, as a buyer, I have no problem whether they charge $5 or $50, because then you can calculate those charges into how much you are ultimately willing to pay for an item, and adjust your bids accordingly.

I'm pretty sure many buyers/bidders view s/h charges the same way when bidding. It's just another scam to bleed a higher percentage from the consignor based on the "overall item cost", by decreasing the "final sale price".. Basically, these costs(unless hidden) don't really cost the buyer anything more, but they do cost the consignor.

The handling portion of s/h is still a total BS concept. The auction houses basically get their BP for handling the sale of the item...And then charge you again for handling the shipping, despite the fact that handling the shipping is necessary when handling the sale of an item over the internet or phone, and is thus part of the same handling process.

It will depend on how they ship the card. If they ship the card via Priority Mail Small Flat Rate box, the cost w/ the new USPS rates going into effect tomorrow, it is $5.35. If they ship the card in a Medium Flat Rate box, the cost is $11.35. I know Medium is overkill, but some auction houses do the box within a box shipping, for full protection which is kind of nice sometimes.

Signature confirmation is $2.05
Insurance for $500 is $6.85

Therefore, if they ship in a small flat rate box with Sig and Insurance: $14.85
Medium w/ Sig + Insurance: $20.25

i won 3 SGC cards (one lot) in the Hunt Auction this week for $68, they are charging $10 S/H

I keep seeing people use USPS prices as part of their argument against auction house shipping costs, but it's important to realize that most of them do NO use USPS. You really have to compare apples to apples here.

With BP attached the Insurance would actually be $8.95 alone.

Yeah, I could actually live with the $18.50 pricetag.

I recently received a package from an auction house. FedEx Home Delivery. 3 lb. package. Actual cost was under 15 bucks including Insurance.

I was charged $35.95.

There was an auction house a couple months back that originally had an insurance fee of $72 for my $5k auction win with only cards, no big frames or anything. After I called them up and told them no auction house has ever charged over $35 for invoices over $6k they backed up and were easy to deal with. If you call and talk to most auction houses they'll drop the prices, that's what seems shady to me. It's like a negotiation to how much they'll make on you. There are also a couple exceptions to the rule that only charge you what it actually costs for them to ship.

I won an S110 Silk pillow case in the November Heritage auction for a little more than a grand (lesser condition, but nicely framed). They referred me to three Dallas shipping companies for third-party shipping, which surprised me to begin with because I assumed an outfit Heritage's size would do their own shipping. The lowest estimate was $230! I knew it would cost extra to ship glass, but had factored in $100 or so for that. I was so pissed I told Heritage to re-consign it to their next sports auction, and I really don't care if I lose money on that. I just wouldn't pay that much to have it shipped, that's all. If I put it on the wall, every time I looked at it I'd think of how much it cost just to get the damn thing. As for Hunt's, I just got a check for a past auction, minus $12 for items they returned as not worthy of the auction. But they had accepted those items personally at a show. So let's see here: you take my items in person, then when you get them back to the shop you decide they don't make the cut because now you have better ones for your auction, so you charge ME to return them. Good deal for YOU! We all know the shipping's padded, been part of the game for a long time, but don't insult me. Remember when that was a major profit center for eBay sellers, not so long ago? I don't know what changed, but nowadays eBay shipping is either cheap or, in many cases, free. Always makes me want to bid higher. Cool.
Hank Thomas

Agreed
 

Shipping is basically a profit center. Most auctions use a third party for insurance as well. I think auctions all follow suit with what other auction companies are doing. Hunt has been around for a long time. Their website is the same look as it was 15 years ago and NOT much has changed.

I will say that once I brought to their attention a shipping price I had a problem with. It was on a framed jersey. The jersey sold for like 200.00 and then they wanted another 100.00 in charges. None of this was included in the description nor was it mentioned that the lot would have accessive shipping charges on it. I'm sure the actual shipping price was over what they charge me, but I think they should warn/advise potential buyers ahead of time then work with me after. They did work with me where all is good.

A bigger issue with Hunt is how they say you must bid in 10% incraments. However if you make a "proxy bid" you can just type in 10% plus 1.00 and then you basically locked up the next 2 spots making the other bidder pay way more than what he should. Proxy bids should only be allowed if they follow the 10% rule. Most auctions companies practice this pattern, however Hunt does not.

Sorry for rambling on about Hunt but it just came to my mind when Dan pointed out the shipping price. I think Hunt should address both issues IMO.

Jimbo (JC Clarke)

Mears
 

"I'm curious as to others experience with Mears, after my last debacle with their shipping department."


Their shipping is HORRIBLE. I ordered a pennant from them. It took a month, and numerous calls and emails to some guy named TJ, who was head of their shipping and Troy Kinunen, before I received the pennant. TJ had told me he was going to pack it and ship it himself the next day, after one of the calls. A week and a half later, still hadn't received the pennant, and I live only 25 miles away from them. More phone calls and emails and finally received it.

Scott Heibler

About Mears, you know, I haven't won anything from them recently, but I have won a few things from their auctions in the past. I really don't remember anything about about them. I thought that the shipping fees were reasonable and I received the items promptly.

For example, looking at one of my old invoices from May 2010, I won 2 slabbed cards from them for ~$100 after BP, my shipping was $5.95 and $2 insurance. Maybe a little high compared to if I bought similar cards from ebay. On ebay, I would have expected the shipping to be $3.50 total with no insurance. Mears shipped the cards in a box, while on ebay, most sellers just ship in bubble mailers.

Shipping insured with signature confirmation is just STUPID! You have to sign for insured items and the insured numbers can be tracked at any post office computer just like tracking can be from yours. This makes no sense. It is paying double for the same service.

I pretty much agree with Dan regarding it being a waste of $ to to pay the USPS for a signature confirmation as well as USPS insurance. The exception would be if an item is insured for $200 or less, because the USPS carrier isn't required to obtain a signature upon delivery. When an item is insured for more than $200, the carrier is required to obtain a signature upon delivery - this is why there is a sizeable increase in the USPS fee for insurance from $200 of coverage to the $200-$300 coverage level.
Val

As far as I know, Paypal won't protect the seller on packages over $250 unless it has signature confirmation, even if delivery confirmation indicates a package has been delivered.

They don't care if it can be tracked from a post office computer. The information has to be available on-line to them.

The fact that the AHs will drop their shipping prices readily if you ask is proof that it is a profit center.

The fact that the auctioneer uses a more expensive system than USPS is their choice, not mine, and not my problem. I should not have to pay for it. USPS is quite good; the 'safety' issue is BS. I use it for all Ebay sales and have never had a lost item. The few lost items I've had as an Ebay purchaser have been overseas items lost in customs. Some of the smaller auctioneers ship their stuff USPS and do just fine.

Any AH should be insured on its own policy for loss of inventory including shipping, based on total sales value. Purchasing extremely expensive per-item insurance is simply the AH foisting off an internal operating cost onto the buyer.

If you have your own collectibles insurance odds are that you have your own insurance coverage for losses in shipping.

bp
 

I find it amazing that people are willing to pay 15-20% bp to auction houses plus high shipping charges. In addition, most of the time the shipping charges can't be calculated in advance because you can't be sure how many lots will be won.

On the opposite end of the scale, ebay buyers would never put up with a buyers premium and ebay sellers get complaints if shipping for a single card is over two bucks.

Many auction houses don't accept Paypal, so in most cases signature confirmation is not an issue. Why pay for two signatures if you can get by with the signature for an insured package? For items under $200, it is a little cheaper to insure the package for $201 and get a signature instead of paying for signature confirmation.

For a single card, using Priority Mail is overkill. Put the card in a firm photo mailer and mail it First Class for a couple of bucks. You can add insurance to the photo mailer.

Shipping from my 1 card in the Goodwin Auction was $11.45. Talk about overkill on the packaging......4 different boxes/envelopes......

I think that most auction houses do over charge for shipping. I won a card from CollectAuctions.com and had a $14 shipping charge added. I brought this to there attention and was explained that he used Fed Ex and that was the shipping charge (which I believe was their price). I asked if he could ship USPS to cut cost and he agreed and the card was shipped at a reasonable price. Would definately continue looking at their auctions.

As far as Hunt goes, I just signed up for their auctions, terrible website in my opinion, very confusing. With the reports of high shipping I will probably hold my bidding down.

These auction house need to start stepping up to the plate with all the competition out there.

Lee

REA Shipping Default
 

Several years ago I won a couple of slabbed cards (Cobb and Young) from REA, my first auction house experience. My cost without BP was around $2300. I checked the invoice soon after the auction closed late that night (I was in Vegas) and was shocked to see a shipping and handling fee of $1000.00 in addition to the added BP. I didn't sleep well that night and also avoided the blackjack table as well.

The next day there was an Email confirmation notice of my purchase with a note saying that S & H would be determined and a copy of the completed invoice would soon be available. Later that day I received the invoice, now with a shipping fee of $20, I believe. Still too much for two slabs, but a helluvalot better than $1000.

The psychology of the thousand dollar default in their program, probably reduces complaints, but for me, it made me miserable for about 24 hours. Chances are I may have saved over $20, by not playing blackjack that night, so I guess the S & H was free.

Thank you REA, I think???

Hunt's website is by far and away the worst I have ever tried to navigate.

I was registering with them a few weeks ago. I stopped when I got to requirement of entering credit card information. There site was https, they had a Verisign logo by the credit card information tab, but that wasn't enough for me. I emailed them stating I wasn't comfortable entering my credit card information on a non-secure (non-https) page and they assured me that their site was secure (and I could register by phone with the credit card information). I just wasn't buying it. Plus, I don't like that they can charge the credit card if someone doesn't pay but winners can't pay by credit card. I don't remember having to enter credit card information for registering anywhere else.

Plus, their website is really that bad.

Huggins was very reasonable! 2 FedEx boxes one being 15lbs and the other 10lbs for $50 total:)

This has been my "shipping charge" experience, after 30 years of doing this. Just my personal opinion, after participating in hundreds of these auctions...

Best of Class:
REA
LOTG
BST

Somewhat reasonable:
Heritage
Huggins & Scott
Inside the Park
Mile High

Mild Ripoff:
Lelands
SCP
Goldin
Grey Flannel
Clean Sweep

Big Ripoff:
Mears
Hunt

Extortion:
Christie's

No doubt... they're so egregious, I must've blocked them from my memory.

I just paid $15 for 5 single cards from Hunt. People routinely pay high charges from these auction houses but routinely bitch about pay $6.50 for the exact same lot from Ebay.

Whatever I charge is reasonable, whatever anyone else charges is excessive...

Seriously though, I know people aren't interested in looking at things through the auction company's perspective but let me just throw out a scenario.

My company specializes in doing, in addition to the great items that we all hope to get, lower value lots to maximize the return for the seller as opposed to doing a bunch of bulk lots which will then get broken up by the buyer to make a profit that should be going to my consignor.

We start ALL our items between $1 and $25 with no reserves. Every auction a ton of items go for under $10. My commission + Buyer's Premium on a lot like that would be $4. Shipping could easily be $7. Plus I have to pay someone to pull the item box it up print the packing slip and bring it to the post office. A single card is easy but on larger purchases it can take a half hour just to make the package. We charge actual postage (plus insurance on invoices over $200) plus $5 for materials and time. We lose money on shipping every auction. Hopefully by this Spring's Pre-War auction we will have private insurance so we don't have to buy additional postal insurance, and we are very creative in our attempts to keep the actual postal costs down as much as possible. Using Regional Rate boxes, going UPS on larger packages where the Postal rates get insane etc.

None of this even takes into account the time it takes me to generate all these invoices (what I am doing right now for last night's auction) which is usually between 4 and 8 hours of drudge work of weighing and figuring package size so we invoice accurately.

Are there companies out there that gouge? Absolutely. However, just assuming that everyone is profiting off of shipping isn't really accurate.

Just my 2 cents.

Hunt’s web site is far from perfect, but I have never had any trouble navigating it and bidding. On the other hand, Hunts people are incredibly nice on the phone and very responsive to questions and requests. I like the auction very much!

Throwing in a good word for Lelands:

Last auction I won from them was over 2,000 cards and it was heavy because the vast majority were in albums and sheets. Lelands charged me $65 to ship it, which was very reasonable IMO considering what I've had to spend to ship similar heavy packages across the country.

The worst gouging I ever got was from Skinner in MA. Not only was the shipping cost 20% of the price, I had to use a third party packing/shipping service because Skinner didn't do it in-house, and they broke one of the cabinet cards I bought with their crappy packing.

There is no excuse for charging more than a few bucks above the flat rate box rate to ship anything that can be shipped via USPS flat rate box. I know some AHs think they have to use special packaging to present a corporate image, but really, none of us collectors care about image. I mean, look at the scruffy bunch of ruffians at the National. Half the attendees look homeless but have five figures in cash in their jorts.

I'm a big fan of how REA handles it: a flat price, you know it in advance, you don't have to worry about a nasty little surprise.

I just had to post this for you guys. I won 4 little buttons in a smaller Western Americana auction for a winning bid of $250. I knew what I was getting into because it was clearly stated on their website so I bid accordingly, but it's an amazing 44.6% for commission, tax, postage and handling....

Session 4: Firearms, Cowboy, Bottles... (2020-02-17 08:00 PST)
4196 Early Baseball Pins (112403)
250.00 62.50 25.00 337.50
Handling 5.00 0.00 5.00
Shipping 19.00 0.00 19.00

Totals 274.00 62.50 25.00 361.50
Payments 0.00
Owing 361.50

It depends. Many factors. If I bought a card for $15,000 and someone threw it in a $7.99 priority mailbox I’d be a little pissed.

If someone charged me $7.99 shipping for a $2 card I’d be a little pissed.

No simple answer.

Some of you guys act AHs don't do anything and whatever they make is highway robbery. Yeah, other than soliciting items, dealing with consignors, getting auction organized, photographed, promoted, dealing with printers, dealing with bidders, irate phone calls, problems with post office, packing supplies, time and effort to get
Many many packages to shipper, dealing with no payers, dealing with pissed off consignors ..... yeah. Piece of cake. Can’t imagine any aggravation at all.

I think I just fell in love...

I would throw in another category, Very Reasonable, and put a few of the smaller to midsize auction houses who have charged me reasonable shipping AND properly ship items (always cards for me).

Very Reasonable:

Sterling Sports Auctions
Brockelman Auctions
Birmingham Auctioneers

Brian

Ha.

Shipping is a substantial part of the game. I don't mind reasonable shipping charges but companies should be mindful and not overcharge by too much. Actual shipping cost plus a few bucks is fine by me.

Why the big deal about auction houses? Did anyone check the shipping prices that sellers on eBay are charging for the last year?

The big difference is that on eBay you know what you are paying for in advance for shipping. With most AH's you hold your breath waiting for the invoice after the auction is over.

Jeff

Lelands
 

Big shout out to Jillian at Lelands. I received my invoice from a few nights ago. I thought that the shipping was somewhat high and contacted her. She sent a detailed response (with pictures) describing the cost and how the item would be packed. I think she will be able to save me a few bucks which I really appreciate it.

Jeff

Shout outs for good service are always appreciated.
I suspect if folks have a shipping issue and call about it, they get rectified most times.

Here's some perspective from the other side of the fence.

In our auction that just closed we had a lot of 5 vintage baseball themed LIFE magazines including a Jackie Robinson cover.

They were won for a bid of $7.

These 5 magazines are obviously over-sized and weigh a total of 8 pounds. There is no way to get them into a flat rate envelope or even a medium flat rate box. I put them in a mylar envelope and shipping (with our $5 charge) was $31.20

I get an angry email stating he refuse to pay $31 shipping on a $7 win (what if he won a car for $7 would he expect it to ship for the price of a stamp? what does the cost of the win have to do with how much it is going to cost to ship?) I found a regional rate box that actually does work and got the rate down to $24.21. He still doesn't want it and gave me "permission" to ban him. Very generous of him.

Didn't read if this was mentioned earlier didn't read all the posts yet, pay pal doesn't require signature confirmation for orders under $650.

PayPal
 

Actually, the number is now $750. From PP's website:

Signature confirmation, if the full amount of the payment including shipping and taxes exceeds a fixed amount (based on the currency of the payment) from the signature confirmation threshold table below. Signature confirmation is online documentation, viewable at the shipping company’s website, indicating that the item was signed for.

U.S. Dollar:

750 USD