1921 Shotwell Babe Ruth on News
 

Guy believes he bought a legit 1921 Shotwell Babe Ruth from Action Sportscards in Sparks, Nevada. I actually used to frequent that place. I bought some E94s from him for about $50 bucks a piece. However, this looks like an obvious fake.


https://abc30.com/sports/visalia-man...lions/5124901/

Fake for sure. It has light "artifacts" of the same flaws from the known PSA 1.5 example.

Last week, this guy called the shop I just stopped working full-time at and said his grandmother left him this card when she passed. I'm guessing the guy he said examined it is my boss. I love that the story has already changed.

If the spots match up on the one known, to this one, that is a red flag. I didn't compare it but other than that it does look ok from the scan. The edges are awfully white though. I think some more Shotwells will come out in the future. But that is a total guess.

I love that this guy has been "collecting since he was a kid" but has no idea PSA or SGC exists and instead takes what could be a "million dollar card" to an antiques store. That's what I'd do if I found a Picasso. I'd take it to the local guy.

I found the first Shotwell (Jacobson) to be cataloged in late 2007. It was in a stack of other E121s and came from a midwestern collection. They are 100% identical to other E121s. The borders appear bleach white, a jagged cut (inconsistent with 1920s printing methods) and the foundation almost appears thick. The only saving grace to the guy's story is that he got it from Action Sportscards in Sparks. The owner is not the brightest bulb in the batch and I could easily see him selling a $1000 card for ten bucks.

or a $60,000 card for $2?

correction...$2 million card for $2?????

Most stuff should match on anything manufactured.


But whoever did it didn't remove the small tear at the right before printing it. So the tear is printed in.


Always nice when there's only one real one to compare to and that one has a clearly unique feature.

https://i.imgur.com/4oFk0sb.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nNOnCDv.jpg

Also notice the gray background on the original vs. the bleached out fake.

Nice comparison, thanks

I was told it was graded authentic today? By who? Anyone have any further info?

Gotta have faith

Amazing how quiet the national news media is considering the coverage this received. Beckett should have posted a grade by now if this was genuine.

Good eye! Here's a portion of a 1200dpi scan of our 1921 Babe Ruth Herpolsheimer backed card....

https://i.ibb.co/c6zHgbm/ruth1200.png

I wonder if the modern printer used for that "possible" fake shotwell made the background too muddy or something and they foolishly opted to just remove it entirely? :p

The good part of that $2 "million dollar card" story is it prompted my uncle to get me to learn more about the stack of Herpolsheimer's he was sitting on. Maybe that could be the bright-side follow-up story here?

Why are folks saying the Shotwell is a possible fake? It is a 100% fake. Period.

It is nothing other than fake. I guess some folks don't understand what a fingerprint is?

Just CYA / CMA in case the guy is marketing the story as much as possible before the grading/authenticating (or worse, never gets it authenticated because "reasons"). Time will tell.

But yeah I'm with you... appears that the tear was reprinted and the background...just removed?

Can't wait to see the results of the authenticating.

In general though, I would think artifacts of course can exist on the plates during printing and be consistent across more than a few impressions of the same cards before the press operator cleans things up. But that $2 shotwell does look fake to me IMO.

Of course printing plate issues happen across multiple cards. We frequently discuss it here. On the other hand, uniquely known Ruth cards don't have the same tears or creases, centering etc... You would likely win Powerball twice before that happens. All my 1/2 cent of thought and free of charge.

Without a doubt. I think the "possible" piece is a bit tongue in cheek. A stumbled across this from the other Anson. Great stuff, as always.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...baseball-card/

A friend of mine brought this story to my attention, and my radar was up right away. Once I saw the local TV news report though it was all over. This guy is full of crap and basically seems to have made reporters appear just to get his kids on TV. That's old school. My silver lining take is, this type of publicity for the hobby is good publicity. Just like my friend, many people will take the story at face value and assume that those kind of rare cards are still floating around. I don't think many people will stick around to find out whether the card passed muster or not. That's for the best, because the attention will be on cool prewar cards, and it may get people interested without having to find out in the end the card is in fact exactly what was intended to be sold-a reprint.

This is getting painful. https://abc30.com/sports/visalia-man...-card/5158849/

Seems like this guy needs to get in touch with the two guys from Cincinnati that have their "T 206 Wagner"......

David

My God, that article is poorly written.

Exactly what I was thinking.

They are waiting to hear from the experts before they make their next move. I am just sitting here laughing thinking about their next move to the trash can. :cool:
Here is the other one of the 2 real Shotwell's known...

This guy has to be related to Jason Mars, or they are putting lead in the water in sparks nevada.

Since any grading would be done at the 1 day service level, I wonder what they are waiting for.

Another 15 minutes of fame

I think somebody should offer to have the card graded on live TV. If it comes back as real then the guy gets $250 K, $300 K or whatever a reasonable price should be for the card. It it comes back as fake then the current owner must BURN the card.

That might put an end to some of these stories....

David

Or a last gasp hope that some rube millionaire comes out of the woodwork and buys this for a million dollars + like an utter jackass completly ignorant of what the deal is.

I guess it could happen. Many fools with money waiting to part with it.

I don't understand that new article at all. So he needed Lorenzo Ball to write a big check, but he only paid $2 for the card?

Saying that "no one has proven this is a fake" is the reddest of red flags. I'm not sure who Ball is lecturing when he is trying to argue that a card featuring a baseball player isn't a baseball card, but "memorabilia". Yes, it was in fact made for a game. That game is baseball. If he was serious about authentication, he could get it done and slabbed right quick. If Ball ever shows up on this message board, I will be happy to tell him the exact steps to take to get this thing resolved. But not before he discloses exactly which auction houses he has spoken to.

To paraphrase, "I just hope it's a good deal". Brilliant strategy.

Lol...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/real-visa...034805485.html

Hmmm wonder which “auction place back east” told him the card will open at $1.5 million and sell for $4.5 million. Let’s assume it wasn’t REA because, well, you know. Who’s left?

It needs to be on the wall at Yankee stadium next to Ruth’s jersey, or was it bad. Heck, I don’t remember
He says he doesn’t have to sell it because he has other high end cards to sell. (And oh my, they are high end!)
And I wonder what those plastic cases are around his other high end cards? Maybe that might lend a clue as to how to seek authentication? Maybe? Nope, let’s call an anthropology professor. Sounds about right. Check the pulp!
Great way to start the morning. Extremely entertaining!

Fresno State Anthropology professor John Pryor studies items such as Native American artifacts. Baseball cards are new to him but he analyzed the lab results of the Babe Ruth card.

There you go.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but this story sounds eerily like the two guys with the fake Wagner. Didn’t they also get a lab to authenticate the age of the card instead of letting PSA or SGC have at it?

Who was the expert who put a 4.5 million dollar tag on it?

I thought he would have gone away by now. He’s really trying for 20 minutes here.

That's what it's reminded me of from the start. If the card was authentic there would be no need to seek out local news stations and "forensic analysists" that can help give credibility to it.

You would just send it in to PSA or SGC and then off to a major auction house.

But, we all know that. It is entertaining though, and he's certainly getting attention.

Don't worry, the bidding will start around a meager 1.5 mil.

More fake news
 

That same story keeps getting better:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/real-visa...034805485.html

Now it's confirmed to be authentic, not by psa or sgc, but by an anthropologist. Oh and now the value is up to $4.5 million. Not at all surprising given the trash passed off as news on that site. I really should stay off of it.

There are so many things wrong with this story that you don't know where to begin.

That is crazy.

Duplicate thread.

I would hope GMA would get a crack at authenticating it.

We have two threads discussing this at the same time. Maybe they should be merged.

Sorry guys I didn't notice the old thread had been bumped.

For me the anthropologist is the highlight.

Merged
 

Done. Another monumental idea! Hope all is well, Barry.

All is well with me Leon, thanks for asking. But I don't think all is well with the Shotwell Ruth. I think it is going to end badly.

Badly for who? At the end of the video it shows he owns a few graded cards. So he has to know he could have this one graded. I'm not sure what his end game is, but I assume he knows the card is fake and likes the attention. No one is going to pay 6 or 7 figures for this card, and he probably bought it for a few bucks.

Badly for the owner. Let's watch how it all plays out.

I wouldn’t offer 2 figures.

I think he can get 5 bucks for it now....that would be a 250% profit. Not bad.

.

My point is how bad can it end for someone who probably paid 5 or 10 bucks for what I assume he knows is a reprint? He got his 15 minutes of fame, which I also assume is what he was after.

I think he said he paid 2, don't exaggerate.

I must have skipped past that part of the video. You'd think a comment from the the store owner who let this "$4 million" card go for 2 bucks would be part of the story. Or perhaps this journalist could ask why this lucky guy hasn't had the card graded yet.

Same hat, different ass.

The tears are him setting himself up for a GoFundMe page when this comes crashing down, so everyone feels for him.

Lol

The thing it has going for it is that it is not as fakey as most fake cards. I say $10 with included shipping.

Brian

It's a small world but I've been to that shop. The store owner sold me 3 E94s for about $100 or so. He's not the brightest bulb in the batch. The shop is in a really seedy part of town with lots of tweakers and vagrants. As for the card, the background is gray!

Not sure about the anthropologist, but Giorgio Tsoukalos is pretty sure it's the work of aliens

Thanks for the laugh. May or may not have spit out my coffee reading this.

Life is going to be hard when the whole family is no longer “set” due to this 4.5 million dollar windfall. Someone let us know when the auction starts so I can get my placeholder bid in. Want to be ready for spirited last hour bidding.

How much would this card potentially go for if it were real (which I know it’s not)? According to VCP, the PSA 1.5 sold for $6K plus. How on Earth would anyone arrive at a $4.5 million estimate???

I wonder if he could use the press this has gotten to take the card and his $4 million appraisal to a bank as collateral for a loan he had no intention of paying back. Someone who has seen the story but knows nothing about cards might just push it through.

There are a lot of those people. The reporters for instance.
I used to work for a newspaper. Their first duty of a reporter is to expose truth and tell the whole story. It’s sad because it’s obvious that these reporters did no due diligence in their effort. It would have been great for the reporter to have empowered themself to ask an intelligent question instead of allowing the guy with the card to run the story. They could have exposed him as a fraud and a fool instead of the headline “It’s real”. We depend on reporters to get it right - not to mail in a half assed job.

Well, "It's Fake!" doesn't generate ad-clicks or site subscriptions.

Ruth
 

I might bid:rolleyes:
You think he will accept large bills?

A buddy just sent me a link to this story today. How I am now just hearing about it, I dont know. LOL but the second I saw this I thought this dude is clearly acting to get famous or hoping some rich sucker sees the card and wants to buy it because the anthropologist says "its real" but has no experience with baseball cards. LMAO If this card were truly real, he would have sent it in to PSA or SGC by now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL5FjvH3AJc

here's the guy discussing his great buy!

this is the way reporters are today. NOBODY reports the true story anymore, it's too hard to gather the facts. The reporters that are left are complete boob idiots

They would rather be first than right. If you take the time to do the research, someone else might scoop you.

This just keeps going. After watching this video, there can't be any doubt in anyone's mind that this is fake. I guess his play is to hold onto it and convince his neighbors he's a big shot. He wouldn't dare send it to PSA or SGC, let alone to an auction house.

https://bakersfieldnow.com/news/loca...babe-ruth-card

Or perhaps.....
 

A potential insurance scam - gets all the "news" to "substantiate" the value - insures it then lost or stolen and collects on the insurance? If he doesn't do it for real, could make a decent movie!

Yikes. To this point, the collector in question doesn't seem to be breaking any laws, but if it does lead to an insurance scam, that's jumping to some serious stuff (guessing it must be a felony).
As for the movie, it could be fun, but I think we all know how this one will end!

I think they treat it as a 'human interest story.' The next day's story may have been about a retiree who runs a kitten charity.

There's so much eyerolling bullshit to this story it's difficult to know where to start. But, for a starter, do I believe a baseball card shop had this card in the display for $2? No, I do not.