Net54baseball.com Forums

Net54baseball.com Forums (http://www.net54baseball.com/index.php)
-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   What are the rarest backs (not just T206 or T Cards) (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=247030)

Rhotchkiss 11-03-2017 06:48 AM

What are the rarest backs (not just T206 or T Cards)
 
3 Attachment(s)
I just picked up a T215 Pirate back, which goes well with my T206 Brown Old Mill and Brown Lenox. I am very well versed in T206 and the scarcity of T206 backs, but less familiar with other T and E card backs. Wanted to get your take on what are say the 5-10 rarest backs of pre-war cards? To clarify, I am not interested in the front/back combo, and I am talking straight up baseball card back/advertisements(not post cards, cabinets, etc.)? And of course, links to previous threads are helpful and expected (I doubt this is a novel question). Thanks

Leon 11-03-2017 06:54 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I have always liked the backs a lot and have collected them for years....Lots of rare ones out there. The W575 (E121 type) card series has quite a few. (or are you only talking Ts and Es?)

Rhotchkiss 11-03-2017 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1716487)
I have always liked the backs a lot and have collected them for years....Lots of rare ones out there. The W575 (E121 type) card series has quite a few. (or are you only talking Ts and Es?)

Good question. I like the backs because of the advertisements -- its Americana and living history, in addition to sports memorabilia; an antique so to speak. To that end, I think those 1920's cards (which frankly I don't know much about) are very relevant and worth considering/ranking. However, I am most interested in the "T206-ish" cards -- like 1903-1915 -- the T's & E's....

Leon 11-03-2017 07:35 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss (Post 1716495)
Good question. I like the backs because of the advertisements -- its Americana and living history, in addition to sports memorabilia; an antique so to speak. To that end, I think those 1920's cards (which frankly I don't know much about) are very relevant and worth considering/ranking. However, I am most interested in the "T206-ish" cards -- like 1903-1915 -- the T's & E's....

No worries. Then this T216 VE will suffice. Though they are seen occasionally now it took me around 4-5 yrs to get my first one. And HOF'ers are really tough.

x2drich2000 11-03-2017 07:53 AM

Big surprise coming from me, but without counting the overprints or error backs, I think the red crofts may be one of the most difficult. I've been able to account for only 16 examples in total though there are likely more still hidden away in collections. Here are mine and, yes, I know i have a problem :rolleyes:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4534/...7ee6e4d4_b.jpg

DJ

Mdmtx 11-03-2017 07:59 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I am unsure how difficult these are, or even you have any interest in subject matter beyond baseball. I just bought these on eBay. 1 is an n101 dukes tobacco card. The other shares the same front with an added line of advertisement on the front and an advertisement for a piano company on the back. The card stock for the piano company one is much lighter. Anyway, I thought they were cool.


Mark

darwinbulldog 11-03-2017 08:26 AM

It depends on whether you count stamped ads or just printed ads, but
here are some that I believe there are fewer than 5 surviving examples of.

D310: Aldon Candy
E121: Service Candy, Shotwell, Kings, Henry Johnson (green)
R316: Douglas Park, Morton, Rialto, Community Theatre
1925-31 Exhibits: Marguerite's
W461: Playland
W514: Robinson Peanuts
W516-1-1: Sandow
W517: Piercy's
W554: Lucky Yo-Yo, Lukcy Deal, 40 Winners
1929 Exhibits Stars: Dixie Theater
W573: Cafe du Monde, Cream Nut, Kings


Here's the more extensive answer:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...192333&page=11

ullmandds 11-03-2017 08:30 AM

as per op's request...5 or so rarest pre WWI cards...no stamps...as stated...red crofts, T216 VE stand out as likely the rarest...Culligans are pretty tough.

Then I'd guess Pirate/Tango Eggs are relatively comparable...from a #'s perspective...although definitely not perception or demand or price.

darwinbulldog 11-03-2017 08:40 AM

5 Attachment(s)
There's also the infamous blue Old Mill T206, but that's a different discussion perhaps. In the meantime, I believe these are the five toughest backs in my own collection: R316 Douglas Park, W573 Cafe du Monde, W514 Hendler's ("Plate" error), W514 Robinson Cruso, W575 Henry Johnson & Howard P Boyer.

darwinbulldog 11-03-2017 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1716518)
as per op's request...5 or so rarest pre WWI cards...no stamps...as stated...red crofts, T216 VE stand out as likely the rarest...Culligans are pretty tough.

Then I'd guess Pirate/Tango Eggs are relatively comparable...from a #'s perspective...although definitely not perception or demand or price.

Those are incorrect. These are my estimates of the populations of those issues.

Red Croft's: 14
T216 VE: 80
Pirates: 105
Tango Eggs: 400

A2000 11-03-2017 09:06 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Since we're talking about non T206 rare backs :D

tedzan 11-03-2017 09:07 AM

I'll throw these in for this discussion......


T208 Philadelphia A's Fireside
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lord1910WC.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ottonchase.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ottonchase.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tsMcGraw50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sMcGraw50b.jpg


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Leon 11-03-2017 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog (Post 1716522)
Those are incorrect. These are my estimates of the populations of those issues.

Red Croft's: 14
T216 VE: 80
Pirates: 105
Tango Eggs: 400

96 Pirates cards were sold at once. You think there are only another 9 in the hobby?

Rhotchkiss 11-03-2017 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1716531)
96 Pirates cards were sold at once. You think there are only another 9 in the hobby?

Thats perhaps a different thread, but a question I am most interested in -- aside from the 96, how many other T215 Pirates are there? My chance was sold with 4 others a while back, and I know of an ungraded Pelty and an ungraded Meyers (split picture on front). I believe Sean C has one, but i dont know if its one of the 5 sold in 2013.

Ted, do you have a running list of T215 Pirates? Maybe we can start one?

oldjudge 11-03-2017 09:16 AM

M101-4 Mall Theatre

darwinbulldog 11-03-2017 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1716531)
96 Pirates cards were sold at once. You think there are only another 9 in the hobby?

That's my guess, yes. Perhaps I'm way off, but I think that's pretty close. I'm betting that there won't be another "find" of course.

tedzan 11-03-2017 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss (Post 1716534)
Thats perhaps a different thread, but a question I am most interested in -- aside from the 96, how many other T215 Pirates are there? My chance was sold with 4 others a while back, and I know of an ungraded Pelty and an ungraded Meyers (split picture on front). I believe Sean C has one, but i dont know if its one of the 5 sold in 2013.

Ted, do you have a running list of T215 Pirates? Maybe we can start one?


Ryan

I have posted two threads on the "Pirate" cards.

Check-out this thread...... Comparison of checklists for T215-1 RED CROSS set vs "PIRATE" set

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...T215+red+cross


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Rhotchkiss 11-03-2017 09:50 AM

Thank you sir!!

edjs 11-03-2017 09:56 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I think this is a pretty rare back.

edjs 11-03-2017 10:04 AM

1 Attachment(s)
And these backs are rare, though the card itself is more interesting than the back (not mine, I just lifted the image from HA).

edjs 11-03-2017 10:09 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Sorry, I should have put these all in one post, but my mind is running slow today. I need some more coffee....

DixieBaseball 11-03-2017 10:33 AM

Coupon Type 1
 
1 Attachment(s)
T213-1

ullmandds 11-03-2017 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog (Post 1716522)
Those are incorrect. These are my estimates of the populations of those issues.

Red Croft's: 14
T216 VE: 80
Pirates: 105
Tango Eggs: 400

Oops!!! I spoke too quickly...so crofts candy reds definitely DO stand out as tougher than just about any other back of that type. Then we're getting to pops close to 100 at minimum it seems. Yes there was that sale of 96 pirates...i'd guess the pop to be somewhere around 200 or so.(likely less)

I suppose if we are talking toughest backs of tcard sized cards...pre wwI mainly, then these issues need to be in the mix.

e92 crofts candy red
t216 VE
T215 Pirate
T215 Red Cross both types
T213 Type I
t214 victory
Clement Bros
t208
ty cobb/cobb back because its not a t206.

what have I missed?

Sean 11-03-2017 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss (Post 1716534)
Thats perhaps a different thread, but a question I am most interested in -- aside from the 96, how many other T215 Pirates are there? My chance was sold with 4 others a while back, and I know of an ungraded Pelty and an ungraded Meyers (split picture on front). I believe Sean C has one, but i dont know if its one of the 5 sold in 2013.

Ted, do you have a running list of T215 Pirates? Maybe we can start one?

Yes, my Pirate back is one of the group of five that were sold by REA in 2013. I checked at the time, and as I recall there were a total of 13 Pirate backs graded by PSA and SGC combined, not counting the set of 96. If you know of two ungraded cards, that totals 111 Pirates.

tedzan 11-03-2017 01:36 PM

Hey Ryan

Here's the link to my 1st thread regarding the "PIRATE" set...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...08#post1057208


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Rhotchkiss 11-03-2017 02:31 PM

Thanks Ted. And if Pete's list is reasonably correct, seems the t206 Browm OM, ty Cobb back, brown Lenox and the 213-3 overprint should be before the t216s?

gabrinus 11-03-2017 02:43 PM

E104-3s
 
6 Attachment(s)
E104-3s with Nadja backs are rare......had these once.....Jerry

ullmandds 11-03-2017 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss (Post 1716640)
Thanks Ted. And if Pete's list is reasonably correct, seems the t206 Browm OM, ty Cobb back, brown Lenox and the 213-3 overprint should be before the t216s?

if you're including t206...yes I agree...and as jerry says...e104-3's are very low in pop.

Rhotchkiss 11-03-2017 02:55 PM

Perfect, and now we are getting somewhere. That's what I was really hoping to do, if not done already, is get a list - in some semblance of rank- that includes t206s (bc how can you exclude t206 from a discussion of backs) - of the ten or so toughest T-card (and I guess E-card) backs.

Yoda 11-03-2017 04:33 PM

How about a T206 Honus Wagner with a Piedmont back?

RaidonCollects 11-03-2017 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog (Post 1716517)
It depends on whether you count stamped ads or just printed ads, but
here are some that I believe there are fewer than 5 surviving examples of.

D310: Aldon Candy
E121: Service Candy, Shotwell, Kings, Henry Johnson (green)
R316: Douglas Park, Morton, Rialto, Community Theatre
1925-31 Exhibits: Marguerite's
W461: Playland
W514: Robinson Peanuts
W516-1-1: Sandow
W517: Piercy's
W554: Lucky Yo-Yo, Lukcy Deal, 40 Winners
1929 Exhibits Stars: Dixie Theater
W573: Cafe du Monde, Cream Nut, Kings


Here's the more extensive answer:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...192333&page=11

I think there are probably more D310 Aldon Candy Co. stamped backs, I have seen some come up for auction and when I bought a D310 Tom Seaton a while back, I was surprised to find at least a partial aldon stamp. I might try and find a more zoomed in version, because you can't really see the letters from this scan.

Oh, and also it would make a fun thread to see the population of all the different Aldon backs, not sure how many there are in total.

Owen

Image: https://imgur.com/a/lSPoT

BobC 11-03-2017 05:47 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Probably not as rare as some backs where there are only a small handful known to exist in total, thought the '21 Herpolsheimer's should at least get an honorable mention as only a single card is known to exist for each player.

Steve D 11-04-2017 05:23 AM

T207 Red Cross is a contender for rarest back.

Here's a previous thread on it:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=190490

Steve

ullmandds 11-04-2017 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve D (Post 1716791)
T207 Red Cross is a contender for rarest back.

Here's a previous thread on it:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=190490

Steve

yup...forgot about those beautiful t207's!!!!

frohme 11-04-2017 09:48 AM

While I was typing
 
2 Attachment(s)
Yep, T207 Red Cross... now has about the same population as the Ty Cobb back, I believe (15 or so??)

Blackburne is not mine.

Another E/W-series back (previously discussed)

Rhotchkiss 11-04-2017 10:10 AM

Thanks to everyone who posted thoughts and cards- please keep it coming. After a few more days, I may sit down and synthesize the many posts into some sort of list/ranking. I personally like the backs as much as the fronts, and would love to own one of each T and E back (or as many as I can), and I am drawn to the rare and unique- you know, the ones that cost a ton and the ones you lose your shirt on if/when you go to sell!!!

glenv 11-04-2017 09:00 PM

Glenn has a good list. Although I have three Aldon overprints (all horrible shape), so I doubt there's less than five of them. You can add Jamaica Theater to the list of possibly unique R316s. Leon used to have some unique backs, like the E222 AWA and the 1921 Voskamps (not the 1913 version). I think there's less than 10 known Peggy Popcorn and La Azore Cobb cards. And the Alpha Photo Engraving issue comes in at a whopping 14.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog (Post 1716517)
It depends on whether you count stamped ads or just printed ads, but
here are some that I believe there are fewer than 5 surviving examples of.

D310: Aldon Candy
E121: Service Candy, Shotwell, Kings, Henry Johnson (green)
R316: Douglas Park, Morton, Rialto, Community Theatre
1925-31 Exhibits: Marguerite's
W461: Playland
W514: Robinson Peanuts
W516-1-1: Sandow
W517: Piercy's
W554: Lucky Yo-Yo, Lukcy Deal, 40 Winners
1929 Exhibits Stars: Dixie Theater
W573: Cafe du Monde, Cream Nut, Kings


Here's the more extensive answer:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...192333&page=11


ValKehl 11-04-2017 10:59 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Here's the other variation of Leader Theatre:

philliesphan 11-05-2017 04:17 AM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the D355 Niagara Baking back.

I owned the Otto Knabe, which I subsequently traded to Dan Gannt, who sold it in his divestiture over the past ±2 years. I don't think I've ever seen any other D355 example in the last fifteen years.

The E104-III Nadja's are certainly rare - but I'm not sure if they're that much rarer than E104-III blank backs. Which, if that's the case, I'm not sure becomes a valid comparison. (I've owned seven or eight E104-IIIs, and have had a fairly even mix between blank and Nadja back)

A bit like OP, I am the proud owner of a Pirate and Brown Lenox back - two cards that are unlikely to leave my collection anytime soon.

m

brass_rat 11-05-2017 08:36 AM

2 Attachment(s)
D303 Mothers' Bread cards qualify as rare. Most known players only have 1 to 3 examples. There are 21 verified players, 52 graded cards (PSA+SGC), and strangely, 11 of those graded cards are Eddie Plank.

It's been said before, but worth repeating, that D303 General Baking and D303 Mothers' Bread should not have the same catalog number as there are players in each set that are not in the other.

gabrinus 11-05-2017 09:00 AM

Nice
 
Nice Steve....still can't believe that Matty got a 1 grade......Jerry

brass_rat 11-05-2017 09:29 AM

It's the most beautiful PSA 1 I've ever seen. :)

Sean 11-05-2017 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philliesphan (Post 1717069)
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the D355 Niagara Baking back.

I owned the Otto Knabe, which I subsequently traded to Dan Gannt, who sold it in his divestiture over the past ±2 years. I don't think I've ever seen any other D355 example in the last fifteen years.

The E104-III Nadja's are certainly rare - but I'm not sure if they're that much rarer than E104-III blank backs. Which, if that's the case, I'm not sure becomes a valid comparison. (I've owned seven or eight E104-IIIs, and have had a fairly even mix between blank and Nadja back)

A bit like OP, I am the proud owner of a Pirate and Brown Lenox back - two cards that are unlikely to leave my collection anytime soon.

m

Marc, who is on the Pirate? Is it Meyers?

gabrinus 11-07-2017 10:57 AM

E98 Old Put
 
2 Attachment(s)
Well, these probably aren't as rare as a Niagara Baking bu these are pretty rare......here's one........Jerry

Leon 11-08-2017 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brass_rat (Post 1717116)
D303 Mothers' Bread cards qualify as rare. Most known players only have 1 to 3 examples. There are 21 verified players, 52 graded cards (PSA+SGC), and strangely, 11 of those graded cards are Eddie Plank.

It's been said before, but worth repeating, that D303 General Baking and D303 Mothers' Bread should not have the same catalog number as there are players in each set that are not in the other.

D303 Mothers Breads are underrated. I think they are the definition of too scarce for their own good.

Steve D 11-08-2017 06:48 PM

If you want to include N-cards, N167 is undoubtedly the rarest back among them.

Steve

tedzan 11-09-2017 05:36 PM

I'm not sure exactly where in the hierarchy of things the Mello-Mint back ranks, but I've always considered it a cool-looking advertisement.
But, judging by the high value of these cards, these gems are pretty darn scarce.
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mintchance.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t%20chance.jpg
TED Z

T206 Reference
.

philliesphan 11-11-2017 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean (Post 1717257)
Marc, who is on the Pirate? Is it Meyers?

It's Doolan Fielding (need to stay aligned with my Phillies Phan moniker)

HasselhoffsCheeseburger 11-12-2017 08:55 AM

W502 "Home Run" back -- I've only seen one.

I've only seen three "Three Bagger" backs, for that matter.

HasselhoffsCheeseburger 11-13-2017 08:46 AM

Here's a "Three Bagger"

https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.websi...m/1237/3616841


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:29 PM.