That's too bad. I was holding out hope that he at least would say something like "times were tough, money was tight, had to feed the family, in extreme debt, lost my job" Even if not true, it's better than nothing. The silence says it all I guess.
Jeff

Not only has he not said more, he did not even correct his nearly-incoherent (spell check gone amok, or intentional?) post, and he was logged in earlier today. Oh well.

In my opinion, it's never too late to come clean.

This is neither here nor there, in my opinion. Save that stuff for the court room when the defendant is trying to soften their sentencing by playing into the bleeding heart of the judge.

By continuing to commit this crime after the first accusation in '09, it shows no remorse.


I get irked when people try to justify crimes - aka excuses. 99% of human beings go through some sort of adversity at some point in their lives.

I hear you. I think of Net54 as the "courtroom for vintage collectibles". I was at least wanting to hear some kind of story.

He already stated there was "no excuse".

Quote:

Originally Posted by lharri3600 (Post 1688679) ...there's no excuse for what I did.

The guy was better off just keeping his mouth shut.
No need to even plant a seed on this site.
He was obviously drunk or stoned when he posted his message as well.
Heck, makes you wonder what else this guy could be doing.

That wasn't an option. Either he would have posted or I would have. It was his choice otherwise.

I want to add a quick addendum. I think you are absolutely correct except in extraordinary cases like this. Usually, keeping your mouth shut is best. And lastly, I didn't ask for this to be part of my days. It sort of got thrown at me and something had to be done at that point. It took a little time to gather all of the info and get advice. Getting the word out asap was/is always a priority to me.

Good point Leon.
Sorry this got dumped on you.

So chances are the buyback that I have is probably not a topps buyback. Only reason I bought it was to have something a little different to go along with my back run.

This guy is a piece of crap! I never seen the old thread from 2009 until now. He stated that he didn't need the money and had 2 complete t206 sets. Wonder how many he made over all those years? Is there any way to tell which are legit topps buyback?

Wonder what topps would think of this?

Do they have classes in how to do that? You know, to clean, trim, shape, and otherwise commit fraud upon your friends?

Yes, everyone makes mistakes. NO, not everyone commits FRAUD. I'm fairly sure that the FBI will enjoy hearing this story.

Yes this ^^^^ a douche is a douche is a douche.

Sure it is. Ask OJ. Perhaps this scum Larry is busy writing his new book titled "If I Did It: Confessions of the Fraud".

Don't Worry. I Can Help
 

LMAO, Jeeze Frank

If anyone bought fraudulent cards in those holders they should request a refund and send the card back too (if Larry wants it). I am not sure how you tell unless you have before and after pictures, which there are some out there.
I think Larry might be more than willing to do what he can to make it right. At least that is my hope and what really has to be tried first anyway. It was certainly a sad day for me when I found this stuff out.

.

Well shit
 

I actually like and collect these cards, and now some guy has basically undermined the entire series. Thanks a lot butthole.

Do guys really collect these? I honestly always thought the buy backs were some stupid thing Topps did that real T206 collectors just cut open anyways.

And why would anyone spend all that time and energy committing fraud for what appears to equate to less than minimum wage?

Edited to add that I don't even collect T206....just going on what I've heard from many who do.

I certainly don't get it either. IF there is any doubting Thomas out there he admitted it to me twice on the phone, 2 different times. He said he had only done 6-7 of them. I think I have supporting docs behind every one of those things listed above. There could be 1-2 off but I don't think so. I have to believe it is the tip of the iceberg. When I confronted him on the phone he asked what he should do with the other few hundred cards he had? I told him to sell them as he got them, be 100% transparent, and if he takes a loss then that is the learning lesson. Anyone who has bought one of these from him, and is suspect at all, should politely request a refund. Please PM if that doesn't work and I will make another call. Ebay and Topps have been made aware, Ebay by myself and Topps by someone else.

.

I find myself asking this very question a lot. It amazes me how many dudes are trying to make 10's of dollars here and there in the baseball card trade when an equal amount of time and capital invested in other areas could be far more lucrative.

WOW!!! Just wow!!! What seems like a "victimless" crime at first blush really has turned into a "shit-storm" (pardon my French). Like someone else said, this one individual has undermined the entire set. It has been ongoing for possibly 10+ years. I feel sorry for those that were actively collecting this set.

Great, I have been buying and collecting the Topps T206 buybacks for years. I have about 15 now still in the Topps holder. Have cut about 6 out and had them graded by BVG. What a mess. Lesson learned. Will only buy graded from now on...

lol!

Lesson learned. Will only buy graded from now on...[/QUOTE]

Why wouldn't you just buy raw? From what I have gathered people are paying a premium for cards in a crappy TOPPS cardboard and plasticine holder when the actual card would be considerably less if bought without that holder.

"And why would anyone spend all that time and energy committing fraud for what appears to equate to less than minimum wage?"

Ask Battlefield...those low $ transactions fly under the radar but eventually add up to some serious dough

I've read this whole string and wonder if real T206s were put into the buyback holders, or was it fake T206s put into the buyback holders, thus more profitable (and not questioned for authenticity) .
Cory Weiser

Classic billboard Frank. The tagline could also have read "Just because you did it, doesn't mean you feel guilty".

Brian

When I caught him, he was buying authentic/real T206s raw off of Ebay as well as buying Topps Buyback cards with some cheap autographed modern player card inside and switching them.

In my original thread from 2009, I had all three stages of the process laid out. Not the actual switch, but both buying transactions from Ebay, then the "FrankenT206" Buyback. I had posted scans as well, but since then they are no longer in my original thread.

On a good note, at least this time I didn't have to call Leon and interrupt his poker game. Remember that Leon? :)

Jantz

Larry or Leon,

About how many of these tainted T206 have been sold over the years? 5? 20? 100? More?

Also, am I understanding correctly that in at least some instances the cards themselves were altered in some way?

Derek Hogue

Derek
All of the info was supplied to me by another board member but what was supplied looked spot on (obviously). I don't know positively of others but can only imagine. As far as I know a lot, if not most of the cards being put into the holders were AUT type cards. And on a lot of the before and after pictures, if not all, the after ones were cleaned too. That in itself isn't too big of a deal. All of other stuff is.

.

Thank you Leon, very much. I am just curious and want to make sure I am understanding correctly - is there any reason to believe there was trimming or recoloring, or anything of that nature with these cards?

I am still curious to know roughly how many of these were sold if and when that information becomes available.

I hope that everyone will be given proper restitution and that Larry can find peace. I apologize and I am not trying to be nosey with my line of questioning ... I am just trying to take all of this in as information becomes available. I hope the number of these that were sold is small enough that the issue can be rectified.

No need to apologize and you aren't being nosey. This fraud seems to have affected a lot of board members and other hobbyists. As I stated, I think all or most of the cards he was currently putting in those holders were already AUT, so that means yes they were altered. I don't know if he was doing serious alterations to them or not. I don't think i saw anything but cleaning but that doesn't mean anything ....

.

Thank you for providing us with the current information and answering my questions. I appreciate it. Hopefully as time passes we will learn the full scope of what took place. Lets hope that the amount of these that were sold is small and that everyone can be made whole.

Over a 10 year period?? I highly doubt it was "small". I think you would be amazed at the number out there.

Buy the card not the holder

Given the lack of communication from Larry this thread might be more aptly named..."not really that ashamed".

At 930pm last night he was banned so can't post anymore. OF course if he wants to and gets ahold of me I will let him. But for now he is no longer on our board.

.

I would suspect he hit the silence button because, lawyers help me out here, does that not constitute mail fraud?

Who knows...I am sure he infringed on a few peoples toes. But yes, the mail fraud thing is huge, and I would think messing with Topps brand is huge also.

Can't speak for other jurisdictions, but each individual incident would be a felony charge in the state where I practice (NC). Would also be a felony under federal law.

Mail Fraud = Yes
Copyright Infringement and Fraud = Yes and I'm sure Ebay has been notified.
Interstate Fraud = Yes
Wire Fraud = Yes
etc.
etc.
etc.
--------------------
Mail

18 U.S.C. § 1341 provides: Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, or to sell, dispose of, loan, exchange, alter, give away, distribute, supply, or furnish or procure for unlawful use any counterfeit or spurious coin, obligation, security, or other article, or anything represented to be or intimated or held out to be such counterfeit or spurious article, for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice or attempting so to do, places in any post office or authorized depository for mail matter, any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by the Postal Service, or deposits or causes to be deposited any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by any private or commercial interstate carrier, or takes or receives therefrom, any such matter or thing, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail or such carrier according to the direction thereon, or at the place at which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, any such matter or thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation occurs in relation to, or involving any benefit authorized, transported, transmitted, transferred, disbursed, or paid in connection with, a Presidential declared major disaster or emergency (as those terms are defined in section 102 of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5122)), or affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

Wire

18 U.S.C. § 1343 provides: Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

Honest services

18 U.S.C. § 1346 provides: For the purposes of this chapter, the term “scheme or artifice to defraud” includes a scheme or artifice to deprive another of the intangible right of honest services.

Elements

There are three elements to mail and wire fraud:

Intent;
A "scheme or artifice to defraud" or the obtaining of property by fraud; and,
A mail or wire communication.

To be fraudulent, a misrepresentation must be material.

Mail fraud applies only to United States domestic mailings and use of interstate carriers (UPS, FedEx) which must originate in one state, and successfully terminate pursuant to the address label inside another state, a transportation that is termed "interstate" (over which Congress has power to regulate) and does require that the mailing cross at least one state line into another state; wire fraud has been expanded by Congress to include foreign wire communication or interstate connections via (e.g.) an e-mail server or telephone switch or radio communication.

So is this rube being charged and prosecuted?

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=240701

Go to post #6, they all look sliced and diced to me.

Even though I have been involved I am not sure if any punitive situations will occur. My main goals are to help people get reimbursed for bad items and try to make sure the perpetrator quits doing what they are doing. I am not sure the dollar amounts justify a ton of authorities but anyone is always free to do anything they want to.
So, In the meantime Larry can be reached at -
lharri3600@gmail.com

.....I think he will happily accept a return provided the card is returned first. I would strongly recommend signature confirmation because of the nature of all of this. Please PM me with any specific issues and I will try to help best I can...Happy collecting.

.

Due to the nature and extent of the scam, I would be leery sending him anything, even WITH signature confirmation. He obviously isn't fearful of authorities and what not. What is to stop him from collecting returned cards and reselling them again? He is obviously money hungry.

I was talking to a friend of mine about this and, as unpopular as what I'm about to say might be, I'm not sure Larry did anything illegal. Unethical? Sure, absolutely, no question! But illegal? I'm not so sure.

The first thing you have to understand is that these are not Topps buybacks. Look at the Topps box packaging. Nowhere do they use the word buyback. This is a term that collectors dubbed them as. They couldn't be buybacks because they were never a Topps product to begin with.

Larry (or you or I or anyone for that matter) have as much right to repackage a T206 as Topps does. Look at the Topps cards. Nowhere does it have their copyright/trademark. They can’t because it’s not their product. Now, they can with their own T206 bat cards, jersey cards, autographs, etc., but they cannot do it with the actual T206 cards because they do not belong to Topps.

At least that’s my understanding. I can post more on this later.

Again, I’m not arguing whether or not it’s ethical. It’s not! But I do question whether or not it’s illegal.

Hmmmm, definitely interesting, David!

That is an interesting question, but I think it's important to separate out the two different issues here.

The first question is whether there was any sort of copyright or trademark infringement. I'm not an expert in that area, but since Topps may not have a copyright or trademark on the buy back holder, I can see why that may create some gray area in this particular situation.

However, as to the question of whether this violates any criminal laws, I would still say yes. Criminal liability usually attaches where there is an intent to defraud. Here, I think there was pretty clearly an intent to defraud based on the way he packaged the cards. He was clearly trying to deceive the purchasers. I believe that would come within most state and federal fraud-related statutes.

Forget all of the copyright stuff as it could be illegal or could not be..who knows?

I will tell you what IS most likely illegal. It is knowingly and intentionally selling something that isn't what it is purported to be. I think that is fraud.

If anyone doesn't want to send a card back to Larry, with Signature confirmation for a refund, which is crazy as there is no way in heck Larry is not going to make it right at this point, then I will be a middle person to send the card to. Once it gets to me, I will make sure the refund is done and the card gets to Larry.

Yup.

The way to make money is with trimmed a d altered cards. There are definitely a few that fit this description in this instance, and generally people felt safe buying the buy backs because they were vetted.

A funny thing is, and if I'm correct in thinking what were the T206 'buybacks,' Topps usually used really low grade cards, didn't assign a grade, once in a while inserted the wrong issue and people here wondered why people would give a premium to a low grade T206 just because it was in one of those Topps holders.