Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>From tbob - great card and I have the T207 Lively:<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182303762.JPG"> <br /><br />Yowie! I mean, Yawie! From our own BST. Thanks Steve. I've waited a long time for an E93 Detroiter. The Phillippe is just because it's such a cool card:<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182303831.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182303852.JPG"> <br /><br />And another cool pick up of female players from this era. This kind of collecting is quickly turning from sideline to passion for me:<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1181867833.JPG">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182306418.JPG">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Joann, somewhere there are more photos taken from that same team in the same year. They were all sold by JP the Mint on ebay at the same time. If I remember correctly there were two more single player photos in that group. Keep your eyes peeled for them as they may reappear on ebay some day.

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>There are 5 photos from this day/shoot on the LOC website. Two are of the team - one is this same image even with the "FEMALE GIANTS" handwritten at the top, but different photo (different tears and creases etc). The other three are all individual player shots. They are on LOC under the George Grantham Bain collection.<br /><br />Neat item - I'm glad to have it. I think I may have seen the auctions but blew past them thinking they were from the 20's, which is later in time than I want to go. The photos are actually from 1913, but you can see the flapper style showing up already (in New York - first to get everything of course). I don't even think I Watch-Listed them, thinking they were from the 20's.<br /><br />J

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>You found them on the LOC site? That's cool....I would have emailed you, but I had bids in on them as I wanted them, but I got outbid at the last minute on all three.

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>I just posted this in June #3. Didn't see June #4.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182314308.JPG">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>on dem lady giants....... great look in a later format.

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v739/millerbr/bullet/1911T212PSA4.jpg">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Jerry</b><p>Thanks Brian<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182350566.JPG">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Lee</b><p>My New Red Hindu:<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182351260.JPG"> <br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182351232.JPG">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Brian- At the National I am going to try and buy every Obak Miller I can find so I can try and make a trade with you for a 1911 Zeenut Miller!<br />tbob

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Bob - A 1912 Zeenut Miller would definitely get you a 1911 <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p><img src="http://members.aol.com/wolfie51sb/cobbs.jpg">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Brad</b><p>Rod,<br /><br />Nice V122 Cobb!

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>Brab,<br /><br />Thanks. I've always liked the pose on that card.<br /><br />Rob<br /><br />Edited to add that the V122 has some back damage, but certainly nothing I can't live with.

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>How cool is this??? Just got it from someone that reads the board but does not post that was kind enough to email me about it. Thank you Dave.<br /><br />It's cabinet thickness and about 4-1/4 x 7.<br /><br />Front(BTW, this is not "Al P Gibbs" - he is pictured on the back):<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182388901.JPG"> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Back. I have to say I thought long and hard about how to post this. I altered it before posting. The two black boxes are not on the actual card. I added them to cover two swastikas, which appear in the same reddish color as the rest. I know the symbol was benign at the time used on this card, but didn't want to offend anyone by posting a card with them.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182388982.JPG"> <br /><br />I am thinking Star Bloomer team, based on unusual uniform (looks older than 1911 when Western Bloomers founded), star logo, and Star in team name. Still, the Bloomer teams usually had Bloomer in the team name and were referred to as girls, not ladies, so I'm not sure. I'm not sure I've ever seen a double-breasted uniform. Anyone care to hazard a guess on the date?<br /><br />Also, whatever is on the reverse appears to have been pasted on and not part of the original card. The bottom is jagged and hand cut, while the other three borders are machine cut. It's very thin. Maybe from a circular or program or magazine? Whatever it is, I think someone clearly added it because the player on the front is also pictured in the team photo and they wanted both images on one card.<br /><br />J

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Joann, as a rabid Zionist and Jew, the swastikas would not offend me -- they do not suggest Nazi Germany in such a context. And even if they had, your piece is historical; no offense could ever be intended by whoever would post it here.

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Jason Carota</b><p>...for my Red Sox set:<br /><br /><img src="http://i22.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/a4/d7/3ee5_1.JPG">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Jeff - thanks for that - I appreciate the input. I went through that exact line of thinking about context and history. But I decided to err on the side of caution, and that if even one person was offended I shouldn't post it. It does seem strange seeing them on a baseball card.<br /><br />J

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>The swastika was a positive symbol in many religions (ask Jim B) and societies for thousands of years before the Nazis latched on to it. I agree that it is always startling, however, to see it in a picture from a pre-Nazi Germany era.

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Dylan</b><p>I cant honestly see how anyone can get offended by a swastika being used in that photo. The swastika has been used as decorative or religous symbol by just about every culture on the planet at some point or another. I think western society as a whole should reevalaute how we demonize symbols and its effect on other cultures. It is still a widely used symbol in both hinduism and buddihsm. But since the swastika was appropriated as a Nazi symbol, it has since then become a controversial motif as a consequence in western society. Swatikas are still used today to mark buddhist temples in asia. If I were to post a photo of a buddhist temple for whatever reason, should i black out the swastika? I think were all smart enough to realize the buddhist swastika and the nazi's ideology of hate and rasicm are completely unrelated, just in the same sense as it is completely unrelated to the ones in your photo.

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>speak volumes about your character.<br />Regardless of whether it "should" offend anyone or not (and I have no idea how anyone can be right or wrong on that debate!), I appreciate you going to the effort to graphically alter the image before posting. Thank you.<br /><br />oh, and...interesting card! thanks for sharing.<br />-Jason

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>thanks to Brian W. for not bidding <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182445431.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182445449.JPG">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>I very, very seldomly see any Polar Bears that are better than Excellent simply because of the distribution and staining effects. That seven is one of the nicest PB's I've seen.<br /><br />Congrats

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>I think you did really good at that price Michael. Next you have to find a PSA 8 Polar Bear!

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Dylan, perhaps if you had some relatives cooked alive in furnaces due to the actions of soldiers wearing the swastika you might feel different. In addition, while swastikas are used to mark Buddhist temples in Asia, they are still employed to mark Jewish temples in America and Europe too.

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>I would argue that the Swastika was "mis" appropriated by the Nazis...<br />And due props should go to my peeps (the Injuns)- for first creating/using it.

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>joann great card(s)...and your sensitivity is greatly appreciated and quite admirable. <br /><br />pete ullman

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>thanks guys...i am happy to have this as part of my back collection...and a serious thank you to Brian for laying off of it... <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p><a href="http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm</a>

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>steve yawitz</b><p>Thanks for the shout out, Joann.<br /><br />I've always wanted this image and was pretty stoked to land it on a T216, even with the writing and the fact that the card is waaaay small:<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/yawie99/yawiesbaseballcards/othertcards/T216%20Oakes.jpg"><br /><br />I won a few other Kottons in the Verkman auction - yes, I admit I still bid in CSA - including what has to be one of the worst PSA 3's in the world:<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/yawie99/yawiesbaseballcards/othertcards/T216%20Gibson%20_Pittsburgh_%20Front%20View_.jpg"> <br /><br />Not that I really care about labels, but I guess these respectable PSA 2's made up for the Gibson grade:<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/yawie99/yawiesbaseballcards/othertcards/T216%20Lobert.jpg"><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/yawie99/yawiesbaseballcards/othertcards/T216%20Doyle.jpg"><br /><br />And one more:<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/yawie99/yawiesbaseballcards/othertcards/T216%20Schaefer.jpg">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Steve, I'm guessing if that bite mark was absent from the Gibson you'd have a 5 or 6 easy. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Pete Z.</b><p><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/vittf2.jpg"><br /><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/vittb.jpg">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p>Very nice Pete, I wussed out on that one.

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p><img src="http://members.aol.com/wolfie51sb/joss-f.jpg"> <img src="http://members.aol.com/wolfie51sb/joss-bb.jpg">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>howard</b><p>Joann, as a Jew I would not be at all offended had you not blacked out the swastikas, although I appreciate the effort. In fact, I would not even be offended if someone posted a photo of SS brownshirts playing baseball as it would have historical significance.<br /><br />Howard<br /><br />BTW..if you visit the Greek and Roman wing of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC you will find at least one ancient sarcophagus decorated with swastikas.

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>OK...I messed up on the T3 earlier this week. Waiting now for somebody to tell me I screwed up here and bit on another reprint? <i>crossing fingers</i><br /><br /><img src="http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/asphaltman76/donovanbakery.jpg">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>It's fine and you got a very good deal. We all make mistakes...don't sweat it. Last week I had to return a fake W512 sheet I bought on ebay....without a great scan....but I should have known. If you do enough buying on ebay something will happen.....Once again, nice pick up.....

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Dylan - I agree with everything you say about the historical and cultural breadth of swastika use. I considered it when trying to decide about blacking them out - thinking that them being on the card was clearly not the same context. <br /><br />But I am not Jewish, and I decided I could not stand in the shoes of others in this case and substitute my judgment on what might be offensive for theirs. <br /><br />But you are exactly right as far as the benign uses of the symbol. It's unfortunate that a positive symbol was so completely "ruined" for lack of a better word. <br /><br />Sorry all to hijack an RPU thread. Does it count as much if I started the thread? lol<br /><br />But it is a very, very neat card, no? Certainly the first I have or have seen that is a portrait of a single player. Now THIS set (assuming all players had cards) would get me set collecting!<br /><br />J<br /><br />ETA - and thanks everyone for the input on the symbols - it's been enlightening. And also for the comments on the card itself.

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>I've always told anyone who cared to listen that JoAnn was one of the nicest and caring people I've ever run across. Your concern over the symbol speaks volumes. Take care and if you make it to Cleveland, holler at me! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Whew...thanks Leon. As long as this one is real! Any thoughts on why the two didn't go for more? Unless I misjudged what I thought the values were on these D381's. My snipe was actually set a good bit higher..so was pleasantly surprised, then scared.

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Mike</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182481487.JPG"> <br />Thanks Rob

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>DMcD</b><p>Joann- Once again you are the dispassioned and calm voice, fair and thoughtful. Be careful!! When they're ready to cart Leon off to the Loony Bin we might make you moderator. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>AAAACCCCKKKKK! lolol. No. I'm a bitch. Really. haha. Just ask anyone at work, especially the Product Manager. hee. He about has to dive for cover when he sees me. I'm not moderator material - I have nowhere near Leon's patience and wisdom for these things.<br /><br />Thanks for the nice comments though guys. I appreciate it. And since I've been up for going-on 21 hours, I am out of gas and needed a few smiles. And Bob - I'm thinking about National. But I am in Milwaukee the 22nd and St Louis (where I am now) on the 26th and 27th, with finals two weeks after National - it tires me out to think of it right now. We'll see.<br /><br />J

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Joann,<br />I appreciate your sensitivity. Regardless of the svastika's ancient roots, it was also the primary symbol of the Nazis and therefore should be treated carefully.<br /><br />As to the ancient Buddhist symbolism, Buddhism adopted the symbol more than 2000 years ago from a pre-Buddhist Indian myth/cult of the Chakravartin or Universal Monarch. The Chakravartin was a mythical benevolent king of the world who ethically ruled his kingdom and created a world of great peace and prosperity for his subjects. According to traditional life-stories of the Buddha, who was born a prince, it was prophesized that he would have one of two possible destinies: to be either a great king and rule over vast areas of land (like a Chakravartin), or become a great spiritual teacher, the greatest in fact, and essentially be a religious Chakravartin. Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha) ultimately renounced his kingdom and went on a sprititual quest leading to his enlightenment experience and ultimate Buddhahood. But the symbolism of the Chakravartin remained with him. <br /><br />In the Chakravartin cult, the svastika was the king's symbol. The crossed lines and four darting lines symbolized his unification of the universe and that fact that his kingdom spread in the four directions. In Buddhism, the symbolism morphed. On the one hand, the crossed lines symbolize the unity of perfect wisdom and perfect compassion embodied by a Buddha. The four "arms" symbolize The Four Noble Truths, the simplified centerpiece of the Buddha's teachings. The almost circular motion indicates the turning of the wheel of the dharma or the setting in motion of the Buddha's teachings. This traces itself back to the first recorded discourse of the Buddha to his first five disciples recorded in the Dharmachakra Sutra (The Discourse Which Turned the Wheel of the Teachings/Dharma).<br /><br />This is more information than anybody probably wanted, but there it is. Disregard at will.<br />JimB

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Bill Todd</b><p><br />Thanks, Bill K.<br /><br /><img src="http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x51/btodd42/W-cards/W555-Wiltse.jpg"><br /><br />

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I was thinking the same thing. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>Zach Rice</b><p>These three T211s will help make the start of a very difficult set.<br /><br /><img src="http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m84/mzm55cards/t211s.jpg">

Fourth June Pick Ups Thread
 

Posted By: <b>S Gross</b><p>Zach,<br />You da' man !!!! Good luck ...<br /><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a296/mybuddyinc/Boxing/t226Donahoe.jpg"><br />.... old card, but one of my all time fav's.<br /><br />Got these from a nice guy board member, so I thought I'd show some "nice guy" new T207s:<br /><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a296/mybuddyinc/t207/t207daubert.jpg"> <img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a296/mybuddyinc/t207/t207lordb.jpg">