Marijuana laws- O/T
 

Since this isn't Democrat or Republican based I will start a thread about the new, legal marijuana laws. It will be interesting to see what the Federal govt. does. I read that if completely legalized it could be a 100 billion dollar a year industry in the US. I don't know what exactly the alcohol industry is but I think it could be almost, if not as, that big. With over half of the population, in every poll I have ever seen in years, wanting it to be legal.....it seems it's only a matter of time.

Wow! I guess it's time to get my Cheech & Chong albums out!

should be legal, in my opinion.

i have heard that those figures on how big the industry might get (and the taxes able to be levied from it) are pretty over-inflated. Not sure if that's true or not, but it should be legal and every little bit helps. Very strange that something like that wouldnt be left up to the states anyway.

I have never, and I mean NEVER, spoken with anyone that thinks pot is worse than alcohol, in almost any way. ....As for the revenue, if we count all of the money (41 billion?) it takes to enforce the laws against marijuana, then it seems the economy could benefit quite a bit from legalization. Who knows, but I think it's inevitable it gets legalized everywhere in the US eventually. Here are a few snippets-


Including lost tax revenues, a 2007 study found that enforcing the marijuana prohibition costs tax payers $41.8 billion annually, Forbes reports.

Marijuana growers account for $14 billion a year in sales in California, making it the state's most valuable cash crop, TIME reports.

It's estimated that illegal marijuana is a $36 billion industry in the U.S., MadameNoire reports.

Mendocino County, California's zip tie program aimed at regulating medical marijuana growing by charging permits for each plant raised $600,000 in revenue in for the Sheriff's department in 2011.

The city of Oakland, California raised $1.3 million in tax revenue from medical marijuana dispensaries in 2011, 3 percent of the city's total business tax revenue, according to The New York Times.

All they need is a commensurate increase on the Doritos tax at the same time and tax revenue should skyrocket.

Leave my Doritos alone please.

How appropriate that they now have a product called "Munchies."

just like alcohol "home brew", it should also be legal to grow your own for personal use.

edited to add: The Libertarian party was pushing for the States to be able to make their own laws regarding Marijuana and take control away from the Feds. But most "radical" ideas which take control away from the Federal gov't get no attention from the media or are swept aside.

I've long been a proponent of legalizing marijuana and I'm very happy to see some progress being made. It will still be a long time before it becomes legal on a national level but we have to expect that the process will be slow.

It's not an entirely harmless drug, but it's light years safer than alcohol or tobacco. Having teenagers getting really stoned and then getting behind the wheel of a car is certainly among the many dangers, so I think some aspects of marijuana use cannot be allowed. Smoking and driving is a no-no.

It could become a very lucrative business, it would generate tax revenue, and it would put a huge dent in the U.S.- Mexican drug war, which is taking the lives of thousands of people. There are still many who think it's a terrible thing so we have to accept baby steps on the road to legalization. But so far, so good.

I'm sure that's the number being thrown around but it doesn't make sense. That would be $300 for every person in this country including children. If 30% use, that's $1,000 each. I'm pretty sure if I have a choice between spending $1,000 per year or just grow a few plants next to my tomatoes, I'm growing. And if I have a neighbor who doesn't have a garden, I'll grow a few more for him.

I'm not aware of a easy marajuana test similar to a breathalyzer, how could it be determined if a driver is under the influence? Many of the symptoms are similar to lack of sleep.

if making it leagle can help to decrease the debb, and not wasting the tax money on some "govt programs" it should. These tuff times and the situation the govt is in with debt, all options should be open to generate some revenue.

Scene at a McDonalds in 2 years:

" I'll take a McChicken biscuit, sweet tea, and a reefer"

The McJoint....new to the dollar menu.

(sigh) sad to see our country sliding down so fast...anything goes it seems.

legalizing marijuana would be an indication of our country sliding UP.

shouldnt have been illegal in the first place.

C'mon Smoky, I highly doubt this would be the scenario. :D

I agree with Barry, I also think liquor & tobacco are far more damaging than marijuana. And, adults should be able to make sound decisions about how to regulate, tax, and sell it in a responsible manner, just as they do with alchohol. I think it would be a win-win for the government (state and federal) and the people, kinda like a "no brainer".

This is not the reason the country is sliding down so fast. But I won't get into that :)

Sincerely, Clayton

I've always been a supporter of legalization, because I think that if legalized it could be very good for the economy(for the record, I don't smoke). It will however also mean changes across the board in regards to police, courts, IRS, etc.... Plus the fact that it wouldn't legitimatize drug dealers, it would only put it in the stores. It would also potentially take away the "gateway" factor. It's not that weed itself is a gateway to other drugs, it's the potential "upsale" factor associated with some dealers.. It could also potentially take the "nursery" industry to a whole new level, turning jobs that are now done by migrant seasonal workers, into somewhat legitimate jobs that could pay enough to be worth it for the typically unemployed person to do, which could have greatly positive effects for the Welfare system.(While we're at it, I think that legalized and regulated prostitution could also fit a similar bill, as to the positive effects on not only the economy, but the healthcare system as well)

The police and courts will put up the biggest fight. It's a major stream of income for the police and courts. It's money that they not only count on, but their budgets are built around. Now that money will be re-directed elsewhere through taxes and simple redistribution. The courts and police will either a)ask for more money, b)have to make major cut-backs and/or layoffs, or c)step up the typical fundraising by being even more overly strict in handing out tickets.

I am truly curious why any informed and intelligent person would feel this way? Please help everyone else (here) understand your thinking. It's intriguing.

Thanks, I want to understand as well.

I have heard the argument many times that it would take jobs from the enforcers, but there's a way to change that- the enforcers could be trained to regulate, farm, sell, tax, and transport, amongst other things.They could keep their payscale and benefits, and stay employed by the same agencies. The money saved from the failed war on drugs could be used to keep anyone from losing their jobs.

"If I ruled the World"........:D

Sincerely, Clayton

For those who feel legalizing marijuana would send the country into a downward spiral...it's been illegal for a very long time, but if you want to buy some you can find it pretty much anywhere at any time, in any part of the country. It's as ubiquitous as beer. So making it illegal hasn't kept it out of circulation. But making it legal will keep small time users out of prison, will put violent dealers out of business, could add tax revenue to the economy, and could make for a very valuable cash crop. Whatever negative effects pot has, and even diehards will admit there are some, they've been going on for as long as I can remember (assuming I can remember anything anymore from smoking so much pot...:))

Great post Barry +1 :D

You make great points, thank you.

Sincerely, Clayton

going to a show stoned on pot is a very dangerous thing $$$$$$:)

I've never smoked it, or anything else.......and never will. The smell actually makes me nauseous. Ironic considering what it's often used for.

That said, I'm in favor of legalization. I've been around it plenty in my life, and believe me when I say, pot heads are far less annoying to me then drunks.

The problems caused by the prohibition of it, seem to far out-weigh the problems of legality.

As long as it's done in the privacy of ones home. I also don't want to make it ok to openly use while out in public. It should have the same limitations they have on tobacco in several states, but a bit stricter.........in consideration of people who DON'T smoke.

tahe jobs from enforcers? no one enforces this, at least not in new york anyway. Anyone who wants it can easly get it anyway , may as well have the taxes from it help pay out way out of debt

Well, it stinks for one thing.

It could be left to the discretion of the officer, I imagine. Maybe they can do a residue test on the skin.

Not perfect, and opens the door to wrong place, wrong time, wrong people to be around.........but it's an option.

I didn't word it right I guess.

Sincerely, Clayton

Why not just do the same type, with a bit of tweaking, field sobriety test as they do on DWI's? If someone smoked a joint but has all of their faculties, enough to pass a field test, then so be it. If they look like they can't keep their eyes open or are dizzy then they can video them for proof. I believe almost every cop car has video now. Now if the driver just has the munchies but can still function, then directions to the nearest Taco Bell are in order :)..

Then you bring the fatigue factor into the equation.. What's to differentiate normal fatigue from being high? Although, I think some states are starting to look a little more closely at fatigued driving.. Whether the fatigue is intentional(pot) or un-intentional(sleep-deprived), what's the difference? Why not lump 'em together?

im sure they could come up with some test and some , amonut, that says your too high to drive.

point is anyone who wants it gets it anyway. very easy to get. damn i was actually in calli for the 1st time this summer, and walking down that broadwalk (forgot the name) must of been 20 "Medical" store fronts, with guys who looked like they just got out of prison dresses in doctor scrubs trying to sell it to anyone! lmao (just thought it was funny that medical is leagle, but they werent giving it to only sick people)

One of the worst things about pot being illegal is there are countless people who are caught with a few grams of it (a small stash) that end up doing prison time. Do you know how much it costs to incarcerate somebody (I don't, but I assume it's not cheap)? Do you know how much it costs to house tens of thousands of these guys, most of whom are not the least bit dangerous? Give them a $50 fine and move on.

There was a big stink about this after Hempfest (Seattle) this year - basically, prescribers had their booths set up and were medically qualifying anyone who walked up and wanted some pot. I believe about 25% of the sellers had their licenses revoked.

As someone who lives in Washington and has all of his relatives living in Colorado, I'm feeling pretty good about this.

I agree that it is a sign of sliding (I don't see the McDonald's thing happening since they aren't selling liquor or cigarettes).

Without getting into the debate too much (it isn't what I come to this site for) I will explain my side.

My thinking is when you talk about a sliding down you are talking about the logic that controls the actions of the people making the decision.

Every time someone says they SHOULD legalize it their arguments are one of two (or both):
1: It isn't worse than Alcohol or Tobacco
2: It will raise revenue by taxes and/or cutting down on law enforcement

So both arguments don't actually demonstrate how the actual element being legalized would be helpful to the persons in the society that use it. Yet it just talks about how society as a whole can benefit by those who don't have the willpower to stay away from it.

In the first argument, saying that it isn't worse is the wrong way to look at it. If you think things that are legal are worse than things not illegal, than maybe it would be better to look at making the legal things illegal not vice versa. Marijuana does have health concerns similar to those who smoke, it doesn't have the nicotine, but it has more tar production (http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/effects.-Lya.htm).

The second case is just greed over acting logic. We could cut out law enforcement and increase tax if we legalized murder-for-hire also. Yes I know that is an extreme analogy, but it is just an analogy to point out the logic of the argument. If someone is caught with some they are still law breakers non the less. They knew the law, but decided to break it. So if people have a careless outlook on the law for this one subject that says a lot about their ideas of being above the law in other areas as well.

I am going to go back to looking at photos of cards now.

...side note: For those that say it is easy to obtain, it depends on the company you keep. I have no clue where to obtain any. I don't know anyone who openly has that information.

Maybe is actually says more about "The Law", then people who do, or do not, think they are above the law.

When it comes down to it, you can conceivably create a law based on any particular lawmakers or segment of the society's pet peeve. In some areas of the world, this is a very common occurrence, sometimes with harrowing consequences.

Sometimes, as they say......."The Law is an Ass".

Many laws are repealed on a regular basis, because they are no longer relevant with our present society...........and you can still google a large number of simply ridiculous laws that are still on the books in many states, but usually never enforced.

It's a constantly evolving thing. Has nothing to do with the sliding of society IMO.

When they first banned hemp production, because of pressure from the lumber industry, I don't think that was a step forward for society, so it's hard to argue the slide back down to me.

Well, the McDonalds thing was a feeble attempt at satire. Never a serious thought.

I base my other observations on 1 Corinthians 6:20.

I appreciate where you are coming from Andy, many people feel the way you do.

The alchohol thing. There is no refuting the fact that alchohol has caused numerous hardships on whole communities, which is why they wanted to prohibit it back in the 20's. The people kept drinking and it created a black market, which helped create organized crime. The people were going to drink regardless, and they did. They realized they(the government) would cut the organized crime back out of the picture, regulate it, tax it, and give people the right to decide for themselves if they wanted to drink or not.

I don't drink, but I like the fact that I can if I want to. It doesn't bother me that others drink, hell, I'll buy someone a drink :D

If marijuana is not as destructive to society as something that is, like alchohol, why is everyone so against it being legal to adults who choose to use it?

I think if the voters in a state vote by majority to legalize it, the states voice should be recognized and let the state work out the details. Our economy could benefit from the tax dollars, which could be put into a multitude of things, like schools, hospitals, police and fire departments, transportation- which would benefit the community as a whole.

It has nothing to do with greed, it has everything to do with being realistic about people wanting the right to do it legally. Adults, with laws similar to DUI, and not using it in a public place (being respectful to the community).

Keeping it illeagal keeps creating criminals out of every day ordinary people. It also keeps giving the drug cartels just another thing to smuggle into the country to get rich off of. I guess I could go on and on, I just feel it's hypocritical to say alchohol is ok but marijuana is scheduled up there with cocaine and heroin (I know you didn't say that Andy, I'm just saying in general).

Thanks for listening,

Sincerely, Clayton

It was making strides towards legalization in the 30's. However they further cracked down on it thanks to political pressure from Du Pont, because eliminating hemp, left very little competition for Nylon..

I never understood the point of getting high...or drunk for that matter. If people's lives are so pathetic that they have to alter their state of mind to escape reality, that really does say a lot about the decline of America.

Well, I can't explain for other people, I have no desire to do either- but I do know that people legitimately use it as medicine. It does help sick people, with many different ailments.

Others use it recreationally, like they do alchohol. And, some people's lives may be that bad- I don't know.

Sincerely, Clayton

There's no end to the things that people do in order to escape reality. Hobbies for instance. Reading for another.

What's actually "pathetic" is judging others for how they choose to spend their time if it doesnt affect you one way or the other.

I think the pharmaceutical companies have their hand in the pot(no pun intended) this time... Working in the trades, I've know plenty of people who use it as a natural painkiller to get through the day. It's gotta be better than keeping yourself hopped up on pills. I don't do either, but I'm not one to judge, I just kept my distance for potential safety reasons.. But that's a whole other discussion..

Back to the task at hand now. Full legalization could potentially lead to more people self-medicating(this can be good or bad depending on your viewpoint, I just see it as they're doing it anyway). I think that could potentially have a positive effect on the health-care system, if people aren't going to the doctors just to get prescriptions for pain-pills as often.

Quite a lot of ground to cover. I'd thought about individual replies, but it would just be a mess.

I find it incredibly odd that it's being pushed towards legality at a time when
Smokes can be sued for secondhand smoke by someone in the apartment next door.
Cities will ban Pate(Boston), using oil with trans fats in the deep frier(Boston), soft drinks larger than 20 oz?(NYC), donating canned food to homeless shelters(NYC), Bottled WATER:eek:(Concord Ma) Among other things.
Seriously, we're banning soda, but pot is just fine?!

The overall attitude here surprises me. Nearly everyone is very down on McGwire, Canseco, Sosa, and a bunch of others for taking stuff that was
A)probably Illegal although some of it could have been bought at GNC.
B)Not specifically against the rules - Baseball had rules about illegal substances, but NONE against performance enhancing substances at the time.
But Pot? Which is
A) Illegal
B) Banned by all sports under WADA
Should be legalized and is more than ok to smoke even if it isn't yet legal
:confused::confused::confused:

As far as it not being any worse than alcohol or tobacco.
It's worse, if only because it has the worst features of each.
Dulls the senses AND messes with the lungs.
What do people die of most in fires? Smoke inhalation.
What's the primary form of using pot? Smoke inhalation.
Nuff ced on that.
(had to slide some bit of baseball refernce in somehow)

While I was in High school and from what I've heard the available stuff wasn't anywhere near as good as what's around now, there was a crash involving a van and kids the next town over. All high, 12 in the van something like 8 killed.
Last year a guy was rescued after he fell into the tracks on the red line. On his way home from hempfest. He was pulled out just before the train came.
Even the drunks know better than to stagger close to the edge.

I don't know of anyone jailed for some tiny amount. Maybe that's just a Mass thing, but it's usually allowed to slide with a ticket or plea bargained. The guys who go to Jail are usually the ones being d**** about getting caught. Just like everything else, if you're respectful and not lying or evasive it usually goes ok.
As of last year small ammounts aren't dealt with at all here.

To be sure, there are some advantages to making it legal. Being able to tax it is one thing, making it traceable is another. Now there's no telling who's actually making the money, the only thing likely is that whoever that is isn't all that nice.
Even the domestic growers cause problems that might not go away with legalization. I'm not sure if it's online, but the Holmes on homes episode where they rehabbed a growhouse that had been rented was astounding. Tapped off the underground main electrical feed, built tunnels to vent the house to somewhere to hide the odor plus a massive ammount of mold from the humidity. And that's in Canada.

Prohibition didn't create organized crime. It was exploited very profitably by organized crime, which was already around.
Prohibition may have sort of created NASCAR........I'm ok with that, others may not be.

And just to lighten up a bit. While I've never smoked friends did. (I was the guy who stayed straight so they wouldn't get lost in the woods or drown in the pool)
And even I think that the band that covered Peter Toshs "I smoke two joints" made the pace way too fast.:D

Steve B

I am Jewish- side out. :)

Nothing I have read here about keeping it illegal, to me, makes any sense at all. Go figure. For those that don't want it to be legal, that is your right. And as a democracy we will continue to revise laws as to what most people want, thank God and Bless America. Now back to watching "Reefer Madness".

I understand there are a bunch of people who don't like any aspect of making pot legal, and although I support legalization I know where they are coming from. It's not health food, and some people do use it as a crutch.

But one thing to consider is that we've had a war on drugs for decades now, and by any measure it's been an absolute failure. There are more illegal drugs around than there were before the war started. We can't stop the flow into the country, we can't stop people from using them if they want to, and it's a multi-billion dollar illegal business.

Now I'm not suggesting we legalize heroin or cocaine. That would simply kill thousands of people and would be a terrible idea. But legalizing marijuana, while maybe not a perfect solution, may in fact do more good than harm. I know on the surface that might sound crazy, but those who support the legalization do actually believe that. Of course, there will always be detractors and there's no question it will always be a hot button issue.

Well-said. Disagreeing is one thing - insulting people because its the only way to make your point, is another.

legalization of 420
 

I think marijuana should be legalized. There are about 90 or so dispensaries within a 65 mile radius of where I live. For California it's a new faucet of income. The cities generally charge a 2-3% sub tax along with the current sales tax for the businesses that are in the marijuana dispensary industry. Marijuana will always be here. Consumed and sold. So some people figured why not tax it and generate some revenue for the states.

It's safer to buy it in a store than have to go to some street corner and possibly get robbed. Or lose your life. Get the criminals out of the picture.

Some people use it for ailments, recreational use or just simply want to relax. Like you would with a beer or a glass of wine.

Obama, Bush, Clinton and Reagan's wife have used marijuana just to name a few. So what does that mean? That Marijuana users can even become president of this great nation. Thank goodness I don't have to start naming congressman, senators or governers because I would be here all day.

Eric P.

+1 Well said again Barry :)

Steve, I appreciate your well written response, as well as your opinion; the laws you cited on the eastcoast are ridiculous, in my opinion.

And, you are right;I was wrong when I said prohibition created organized crime. But in 1925 Al Capone's gang was pulling in $70,000,000.00 a year from bootleg booze, gambling, and prostitution......and that was in 1925 !!!

Athlete's, with the money they get paid, are expected to be drug free. Plus, kids look up to them as role models; they are held to a higher standard. But, they can still enjoy alchohol, right? I'll never be convinced that marijuana is worse than alchohol. Just look at the statistics, how many deaths per year are attributed to each.

There will always be professions where you can not do the job while under the influence of anything....bus drivers, for example. You couldn't even come to work if you'd had a drink in the last 8 hours. Jobs where people's lives are in your hands.....

I just believe in freedom, that's what it boils down to for me.

Sincerely, Clayton

Some people work hard and need much-deserved distractions that others might not approve of. Denying an adult a cold beer after a hard day of work should have always been a crime, in my opinion. And if that same person would instead prefer to light up a fatty, then I'll lift my beer while he tokes.

You've got your right to disagree, and you get the same number of votes that I get. Nothing could be more fair.

Can we please make sure my son does not see this thread. I just last month was in the school office cause they found him with his binder and in it had 35 reason this was good for him to smoke. Told him I wish he put this much thought in his school work and not this topic. lol

I too have no problem on it being legal as long as it is an age of at least 18.

LOL....Agreed though. Most people I have seen that are for legalization feel it should be similar to alcohol in most respects. I think 21 yrs of age would be better but would be open to debate.