I agree with Peter. Like I said earlier, there is a reason that the cards are not graded.
James

Their rules state they will refund if the card comes back altered but will not refund if their NM appearing card comes back as EX. What would go a long way is to put up large clear scans of the cards so that buyers might have a chance to assess the card themselves.

I hate Jeopardy.:eek:

it's the elephant in the room for me, particularly with the squishy talk about being unable to guarantee tpg grades etc.

if you're a hobby icon who everyone knows and trusts that's one thing

as was pointed out, when you are relatives of one of the hobby's biggest fraudsters and are selling their inventory, quite another

My point was that that's not far enough. But I agree about the scans.

Battles Brothers--

Again, thanks for getting involved in the discussion directly. Your persistence honestly deserves credit.
You're getting your points across well, and you seem intelligent and thoughtful.
It's hard to win with a losing hand, but you're playing it well.

A lot has been said already, so I'll just make two quick points that are the sore thumbs for me:

Credibility: You've said that you want to gain credibility as an Auction House and develop long-lasting business relationships with folks in the hobby.
A necessary goal for an AH, but in today's world there is absolutely no way to be viewed as a credible AH with high end-appearing cards that are Ungraded.
This is not 1995, honestly, and the world has turned on that one a long time ago. Reputable AH's who receive important raw cards send them to a TPG for grading prior to auction, usually at their own expense.
It's standard of practice, and you are a brand new AH that is outside of this Standard at the moment.

Relationships: Similar to above, you've clearly stated that you want to build long-term relationships in the hobby.
But Vintage collecting is not a vast, anonymous empire. Everyone -- absolutely everyone -- who is in this hobby for more than a minute establishes relationships with fellow collectors and sellers.
I understand that you have been exposed to cards through your family, but is there no-one in the hobby world that could vouch for your intentions? This beggars belief, honestly.
To me, this is the most concerning and unbelievable piece of the puzzle, and it speaks to your intentions in the hobby as temporary, not permanent.

The established Auction Houses grew organically from long-standing relationships in the hobby. They were not started up just because someone had a supply of cards they wanted to move and the ability to use SimpleAuctionSite.com.

Many of us invest 4, 5, and even 6-figure sums on Vintage cards. We need to feel like that buying experience is safe and secure, not like I'm buying something out of the back of some guy's van in a Wal-Mart parking lot.

Anyway, if in 10 years Candiman Auctions is a reputable and established Auction House, then it will be a hard-fought and incredible victory for your stated convictions. I'll be in line to give you a big high-five if that's the case.

Please finish this sentence...
 

I try to have an open mind on this sort of thing, but I prefer specificity over generality. Let's look at Lot #26...1953 Bowman Color Mantle.

You state: "This particular card up for auction is New York Yankees Hall of Fame legend Mickey Mantle. This card has the appearance of a NM-MT condition card but does measure smaller than the standard size and would likely only receive a grade of “Authentic” if submitted to any of the major grading companies."

Let's say I win this lot for $1000 (incl. BP) and I send it to PSA. I use the 10 day shipping option ($50), send it insured Priority Mail ($14.99) and pay PSA $18 to return it. The card comes back from PSA No Grade - N-1 Evidence of Trimming.

You would refund me $.......?

Curt, I believe your assessment of the situation to be spot on. Master manipulation by the Ebay first family of photoshopped, altered cards in an attempt to sell NET54 members a bag of dog $hit in hopes they'll be happy they bought it.

yep, buy a raw high end expensive card, that we didn't submit for grading and won't say why, from battlefield's relatives, from battlefield's inventory, with a smallish scan, no recourse if you or a tpg disagree with our grade, we have no hobby experience or reputation, but trust us

sorry hope I am wrong but that's where I am despite the pitch

I'm beginning to think these guys like "dodgeball" more than they like Baseball. :rolleyes:


Guys, (Candiman) I think it's too late now anyways as you lost anything you had with me by dodging this question, repeatedly.

That about sums it up. I'm having a hard time understanding why everyone doesn't see this. I get that less educates buyers will bid thinking they can buy, grade, and flip these cards for a profit. Guys on this site should know better. Caveat emptor.

If I was a consignor for a group of $100 - $500 cards, I would not want to spend roughly $25 per card for grading which I probably wouldn't recoup with higher sales. And that's on top of waiting another 4 months to get paid since that's how long it is taking to get back cards from PSA.

Why would any consignor give you cards when you tell potential buyers good luck, and I hope you win the card at a cheap price?

There are many old skool collections out there that have not been slabbed yet. So, why would any consignor give a new auction house some nice cards and not worry about grading or trying to maximize their investment????

Grading
 

Didn't look, but I assume the buyer premium is +/- 20%.
Auction houses are in this to make money:
Sell a questionable 52T Jackie raw for $1,500 and make a $300 fee.
Sell a NM graded 52T Jackie for $7,000 and make a $1,400 fee.
Why grade them???..maybe they are in it for the love of the hobby only?:rolleyes:

I said simply..................WHY NOT ACCEPT PAYPAL; than there is buyer protections.

I said $100 - $500 cards which seems to be the range of most cards in this auction. Not the exceptional few.

Wow...just wow. What are two young guys with accounting degrees doing getting into the baseball card business when their parents are known as two of the most notorious scammers in hobby history?

Starting off by selling what appears to be a NM-M Mantle in RAW form???

If they were honestly trying to prove they are not chips off the old block then all of those high end looking cards would be encapsulated or described as altered.

No way is this business on the up and up.

Hi Daniel
Peter Sp.aeth (hi Peter) has better explained my thoughts than I apparently could. If you read his last several posts you will know how I feel too. I told you it wasn't going to be easy. :) Good luck.
.

And yet countless dealers find it profitable to grade their cards in this range.

Personally I think this is all worthless banter. They REALLY don’t care what a small percentage of the hobby says or does
about their new auction site. They knew coming on here that very few if any would ever participate in the auction.

Heck why would they care, battlefield made all their money hoping a few people would not notice the Photoshop. If the
buyer did and left a negative, just relist it along with 100 $5 cards….POOF 99% feedback, just like magic!!

Now with an auction site they have the operating and maintenance expense but don’t pay eBay fees plus received
buyer/seller(if any) fees. Remember, this is the third way they are trying to “sell” cards in the last six months. Once again,
there are a lot of happy people who bought from them off eBay so we just don’t matter.

Now I hope I’m wrong and you are really trying to right the wrongs…but you’re doing a REALLY terrible job at it.
Listing any of battlefield/war_eagle inventory should never happen. Also, any card of significant value should be graded
and a description of “appears” should never be used PERIOD

I have bought ’57 Topps commons from battlefield with good results. I also bought ’55 Topps were the solid colors were
ALL PHOTOSHOPPED. I even bought a graded card from War_Eagle and was very happy.

Is it just me or don't you think the Alabama Attorney General's Office and the Alabama Better Business Bureau should be alerted about this new auction house?

That way if (when?) problems arise about cards being sold that aren't as described the authorities will already have a heads up in knowing about what is going on?

Just a thought,

David Smith

I’m all for giving everyone a fair chance based on their own actions. Now with that said, based on this new auction house that wants to develop Long-term relationships.....why not grade the higher valued cards before the auction? I have not seen a reasonable reply to this question. Does ANYONE want to consign with this auction house who is not tying to maximize the value of the cards the auction?

If the cards of meaningful value are professionally graded thier provenance is less pronounced. Without answering why they aren’t graded, it appears the main reason is not a long-term relationship (which will not work without consignors) but rather a quick auction or two to help out their folks monetize the inventory for them since they do not have a venue to do it themselves. This is the easiest and quickest way to do it even if some money is left on the table. Getting them graded is more work and since they are just helping their folks out, no need to do that extra work that All the reputable AHs would do. That just makes sense to help their folks out since they aren’t able to themselves now.

I’m thrilled if I’m wrong, but that just seems like logical motivation to me.

Cory Weiser

If you truly expect your 52 Jackie to 7, making it a 7K card, then you would do the work -- IMO.

Scott: I haven’t participated in your auctions, but my understanding is that you’ve established a nice alternative to the traditional big AHs. My guess is that you have some experience that could be valuable to these guys. If these guys are truly trying to turn things around and run a clean operation, I’m sure they would appreciate your insight more than your popcorn memes.

Are you kidding me? Contact the Attorney Generals Office because someone's parents are bad? While you are at it you should call my local AA chapter and let them know that I might be a problem since my Dad is an alcoholic.

.

You really believe these guys are just innocent bystanders? I suggest reading through some of the points others have brought up in this thread. These guys have done nothing to convince me they're not a part of the scam. Actions speak louder than words.

Wow Ben... and I thought my dad was a douche. That's horrible, and sorry to hear that. You seem like a good man from our few conversations.

I suggest looking at Post #44 of this War-Eagle thread. Leon provides links to 3 Mantles auctioned in REA. They were in SGC A slabs. Leon also provides 3 eBay links where War-Eagle is selling the same three years as NM. Now look at the Mantles in the Candiman Auction. Draw your own conclusions.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ight=war_eagle

The group sub was entered in Nov 11th....we are still waiting as of March 6th.

Does anyone here want to admit that they are one of the fifteen individuals consigning to Candiman Auctions? Or possibly someone just knows anyone that is consigning?

I doubt it.

As it appears to me, this is just a rebranding of the family business model as laid out lucidly by numerous members in this thread.

Frank Horv@th

David thank you for the morning laugh. The BBB is a joke and telling your mom would do just as much good. The BBB has no power to do anything to anybody. All they can do is give you a grade(LOL) on their worthless web site.

If you really are that concerned please do call both places and report back with what they tell you.

And all the state can do is not renew their auctioneers license if people complain. Also, I'd bet if they use a PO box, and don't list their physical address, they can't be sued

Ted I never knew that, now I know why so many businesses use a PO box instead of their physical address.

I'm not an attorney, but a PO box should not exclude someone from being sued. They would still need to have business licenses and permit filed with the state/city. Finding a physical address for them is also not hard either...took less than 2 minutes (edited out actual address for privacy purposes as it is a residence).

Candiman Auctions
1** S******* Dr
Dothan, AL 36303
(334) 790-2145
info@candimanauctions.com
Owners: Daniel Battles & Justin Battles

Hartford is about 20 miles from Dothan.

My 4-months estimate was based on using the 10-day service :(

I sent out a package from their Jan Special and it still isn't logged in yet

Damn...that's sad....sounds like they need to hire some help....surely, they can open up the purse springs and pay an enticing wage....sounds like they are overwhelmed with work with not enough employees to handle it.

Rest assured if someone reached out to me I would be glad to share my thoughts. As it is I was just trying to add a little humor to a thread that is difficult at best.

There's really no simple fix for these guys other than time. Frankly I think what will serve them best is actually having subsequent auctions as right now I imagine this still looks like a Battlefield fire sale to a lot of our members. Their protestations of wanting to establish long term relationships don't mean much until they've actually demonstrated that they are going to be around for the long haul. That along with the other issues mentioned are going to create a suspicion that's nearly impossible to counter until some history that runs counter to that which Battlefield has created is established.

All they have to do is offer graded cards. Next to none of the issues raised by this thread would exist had they done so. IMO, the choice not to do so -- combined with the refusal to offer any recourse if your opinion or a TPG's opinion is different than their self-serving one -- is telling.

If all those raw cards work out, then great, next time (ex post) we'll know better. But ex ante, too many red flags for me.

They have admitted as much and I assume it got bad before they reacted. That's not a criticism since I understand any company doesn't want to go through the expensive hiring and training process for a short-term blip. But in hindsight they would probably agree they were slow to react. A huge surge in business is a problem many companies would love to have.

I'm certain that the hiring and training process is more detailed at PSA since they really need to be careful on who they hire. So, in that respect, I can add some patience knowing they aren't throwing temps at the problem.

Just to clarify, it was the Jan 2018 special.

Peter, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but what do you really want here? I've read your posts before in other threads how some dealers hide behind the TPG's assigned grade when a card is either altered or trimmed, but here you're asking why doesn't the OP grade his cards? So, if he grades them and they grade numerically, he's off the hook? You'll let it go? Nothing matters but the grade?

So if the OP has a card and it grades numerically, but it's really altered or trimmed, does it relinquish him of liability? I already know your answer. Of course it doesn't. So if you're going to hold him accountable either way - whether the card is graded or not - then why are you asking that he grades them? That my main question to you. Sounds to me like you just want to complain.

My point is this. Everybody has read the thread. We all have the information to base our opinions and we can all choose whether to bid or not to bid. As for me, I'll choose not to bid at this point, but my opinion may change in future auctions based on other bidders feedback. I just don't understand why you're beating a dead horse at this point?

David, TPG is far from perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than buying raw from Battlefield's inventory. And at least theoretically if a TPG grades an altered card in error there is recourse. There is NONE here if a card from Battlefield that these guys with no known hobby credentials grade NM MT is in fact EX. And sorry I am not going to put my faith in a scan from relatives of the master of the photoshopped scan.

Really nice looking cards are sometimes VG technically. And it can be some silly thing you don't notice, or something trivial.

Like this one
http://www.net54baseball.com/picture...pictureid=3031

What makes it VG is as far as I can tell, the tiny paper inclusion that left the white dot in the background. (Not paper loss, something trapped inside the paper when it was made makes that bit stick out and the ink rubbed off. If it was in the white border, who knows, maybe vg-ex or ex?

I understand. But I think the OP has been honest and upfront at this point. If he does things the way Battlefield did, he won't last long. Likewise, if he runs a clean auction, his business will succeed.

Also, I don't think it's fair to judge them based on their relatives past wrong doings. Look at Ben. That took a lot of courage to say that publically about his dad. But do you not deal with Ben just because of his dad? I have an uncle the same way. Do you want to deal with me too?

I understand being leery. I am too. That's why I said I was just going to sit back for a while and just observe the auctions. But to keep talking about it at this point isn't productive. You're not going to accomplish anything.

Candiman
 

Could you explain this?

I haven't judged them, David. It's just a red flag, which to my mind they haven't dispelled. And after all, despite trashing Battlefield, they took all their inventory. Seems a bit inconsistent, to me. Not the most persuasive way to put distance between them?

Hi James,

The plan is to have an auction every 6 weeks or so. We are already working on the next auction. As I said in a previous post yesterday we are going to try and feature more graded cards in our future auctions. There will still be raw cards but the focus will definitely be to add more graded items.

This first auction will be the only auction that includes cards from Battlefield. Everything they consigned to us is in this auction and I believe anything else they had has already been sold locally.

Thanks,

Daniel

Hi Greg,

Our policy is in line with all other auction houses. Grading is subjective and and no auction house can guarantee that their grades will line up exactly with a TPG. We have posted clear images of all of the items in the auction and tried to point out any relevant flaws. If you look at some of the cards that are Poor to EX you will see where we pointed out creasing, wax staining, paper loss, etc. Obviously anything EX-MT or higher wouldn't have these flaws which is why the descriptions are shorter.

As I have said previously (and added to the Auction Rules on the website), if any card that we haven't described as altered is sent in for grading and comes back as such we will encourage the buyer to return the card to us for a full refund.

Thanks,

Daniel