I don't want everyone thinking that Mr. Frost is a white knight looking to save the hobby.

Victor Moreno is a piece of work, no doubt about it.
The negative stories about AMI are all over the internet. It certainly appears that they have left many consignors holding the bag.
When PAAS was formed Victor was a part of it but certainly not in an authenticating way, I wanted to make that very clear.
Three of us authenticated for the AMI catalog ,and constantly battled with Victor and Kieta, until we could establish our independence about authentication without them trying to influence us.
The idea eventually emerged that we should set up a TPA company and Victor was going to handle the advertising and the finances for the advertising.
That advertising effort was sorely lacking and was one of the factors causing PAAS and AMI to split up.
The authenticating company stayed together for a while and for a variety of reasons I decided to leave PAAS after a few months.
Mike Frost and Steve Koschal kept PAAS together for a period of time, I don't really remember how long, but eventually as you see they had a falling out.

No apology necessary it was just a misunderstanding on your part Mike.
And Victor M is certainly another story as most here seem to already know.
Interesting is an unusual word to describe him. I don't think it is the word that I would use though.

I have not tried to make it sound as if Victor was an authenticator with P.A.A.S.
I have not done any authentication for them in years and I do not follow all the negative blogs about American Memorabilia Auctions. I am sure there are some truths as well as many misleading stories as this industry is well known for.. All I was saying was I like Victor and I think you would agree he always treated us fair when he brought us out to Vegas.

I will agree he treated us fairly when we went to Vegas.
Aside from that Mike I think we disagree about him.

Mike, you might have a beef with your ex partner but I have one with you. You authenticated more bad autographs than I think ACE . I know that the other two are true pieces of work and are out to hurt anyone they dont like. I just cant feel sorry for what is happening to you.

Like this one, Shelly:

Attachment 114427

Now that is a joke, a fake Mickey Mantle on a fake P.A.A.S. cert. I see who and what I am dealing with here.

So, Mike, you're saying that isn't yours?

Do you recognize this one:

Attachment 114428

If someone were to fake a CoA, why would they forge a worthless PAAS cert? Wouldn't they be better off faking a PSA or JSA certificate?

Mike - I have no idea who you are and who all these people you are talking about are. And I don't really care much. But I always thought PAAS was a scam like GAI. Certifying more fakes than real. So if you have anything to do with PAAS you deserve whatever is coming to you and more. These "authenticators" and forensic examiners have done more damage to the hobby than anyone else IMO.

Jos..eph Dw.ek

Depends on what the purpose and/or reason is behind faking the COA.

This sounds like what people claim Mr. Mueller stated about some of his COAs. Perhaps Mr. Frost should not have started his finger pointing.

Please don't come on with your first post and now play the victim. If you want to explain some of what is out there, by all means go ahead. This is not a board where you can come on and gather support for your mission, but if you are honest and forthright I think people would be willing to listen.

+1

Absolutely!!!

You were side-by-side with Mueller and Koschal and now you have to live with that, Mr. Frost.

That's good, Mr. Frost. Understand that.

You are correct and that hurt my credibility and caused me nothing but problems that are still being addressed. Mistakes yes I have made some and being involved with Mueller and Koschal were probably my biggest. Maybe it is time you look into a mirror and see who you are side by side with.
I did not come here to fight or discredit you and I am not a blogger, but I am also not the type to take my ball and run home. I was allowed to speak out on this website using my real name, phone number and I have nothing at all to hide from including any false accusations nor set up false certificates. I do not know many other autograph authenticators that could say the same.

Mr. Frost,

To your credit, you have come on here and have posted. But keep this in mind, if you are willing to accuse others, be prepared to defend accusations against you.

With that in mind, we welcome any discussions.

That is understood and thank you,

Mike, 'Big Dave' is not a moderator.

No, but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...;)

+1

Mr. Forrest

It was not implied, nor did Mr. Frost make any reference to someone being a moderator. Like you, I post what I feel may be helpful or just what I feel like saying.

Mr. Williams,

You are mistaken. I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

lol.

Good to see you understand levity.

Absolutely, Dave.

If we don't have a sense of humor this place/hobby could kill ya' :eek:

So where did you sleep, Big Dave.:D

Obviously not with the fishes.

So, how does one tell the difference between a real and a fake PAAS certificate?

Well, I kind of did sleep with the fishes.....slept on a boat last night.

from my view, I think we are close to weeding out the whole story and Mike is a part of that.

I agree, the "fake cert trick" is a way to deflect. I find it hard to believe that the PAAS group didn't do very well with Mantle, even in the early stages. So, if you make a mistake, learn and move on. No one is very quick at admitting mistakes, hence the Stolen COA, The rock solid Providence story as long as Moby Dick & discredit the big guys, the little guys, everybody that can say "you're mistaken"....

I welcome the dialogue on the board with Mike trying to fill in some of the back story to this fractured group and see if there is a way to move on from all the negativity. I don't know if things will ever change for the better but I'm hopeful.

I get Mike's point in trying to plead his case on this legitimate forum especially since The Kumbaya Connection's one way slam on him (ANL). I would want a place to plead my case too. I say go for it Mike.

Great Question?

Dave, you can call me 'Scott'. Yeah, you post whatever you feel like saying and I thought that since you generally feel like posting as if you are a moderator here, I'd let Mike know that that isn't the case.

Chuck, I agree with you for the most part.

I just didn't like Mike storming in here acting like an innocent victim.

He was a part of the ANL Group and part of that dark side.

I am all for him going after Mueller. I have as much disdain for Mueller as I do Chris Morales.

I've been a target of that group for a long time and any light Mike can shed on that group will be a positive for the hobby.

Only don't act like an innocent victim.

Mr. Forrest,

If I am not mistaken, you had blocked any posts that I make. Apparently you could not resist what I state or my style of writing, and thus felt the need to unblock me so that you may comment.

Would you be happier and my postings more acceptable to you if I were just to make snide, disparaging remarks such as you do?

Chuck, you can trust me on this. He authenticated more bad Mantles than anyone at that time. Morales beat him in the end.:mad:You can add Dimaggio and Williams as well.

A real PAAS has deep coloration all around the egg with even uptake. A fake one has splotches of color and is very uneven. Does that help?

How to tell a fake/valid COA 101

I'm just a rural, country Texan, but I think I can deduce the formula for this, and the same one seems to apply to a lot of authenticators, not just the Easter Egg place

1) if it's a cert that is subsequently found to have certed a "bad" item, it must be a fake cert, because of course they are better than that

2) if it's a cert that seems to be attached to a good item, then pride will be taken in the work, and it is a valid cert

Just what I've noticed over the years.

Mike

Bingo!!!

Thanks. Just trying to learn because I come across them on occasion.

Why would you fake a cert if it does not add to the value of the item.:confused:

Because they are morons!

The best thing is always to go to or website www.paasaa.com and use the P.A.A.S. database. I also except e-mails and phone calls. Unlike many autograph authenticators in this hobby, I am available to talk and discuss issues with my customers or members of the hobby. There are many telltale signs of the fake P.A.A.S. certificates, but by explaining them all on the internet will only be helping the culprits that have been producing this and other certificates.
The fraud and corrupt part of the autograph industry have been using my name, my certificates, my credentials for years to add some credibility to there scams.This and the fakes COA's have been reported and alerts have been sent out in the past. The phony Certificates have been discussed on other websites and also illustrated before.
I was most probably the closest person in the autograph industry to Mickey Mantle for over 10 years. I would work directly with Mickey Mantle and Greer Johnson with autograph appearances and setting up private autograph signings and marketing. I was lucky enough to be one of the few that were ever invited into the inner circle and this has always caused much jealousy and envy among certain members of the industry.
One person that I know that started much of the misleading rumors and accusations was the famous Tony P. I have heard most of this trash for years and Tony has even told me many of the lies including that Mickey Mantle told him that I had permission to sign for him. I now see that Shelly has joined the anti P.A.A.S. fan club, this is somebody I have never heard of or dealt with but I must say that "birds of a feather".
Enough with all the hate, if anybody needs to talk to me please pick up a phone or e-mail me. The truth is only a phone call away.

I have been collecting vintage autographs and vintage NY Yankee material for almost fifty years. I think I know a little bit about "the hobby."
And one thing I do know is that a P.A.A.S. certificate is absolutely worthless. I don't believe anyone would bother to fake one.

David, I am sorry but I think you are wrong, my COA's along with JSA, PSA, GA, Scoreboard, Stacks of Plaques, Mounted Memories have been faked for years. I have uncovered with some help 100's of fake certs attached to forgeries.

Geez, Mike, you roll in here like gangbusters and then you claim (sounding like Todd Mueller) that every forgery with your COA must be an altered or fake PAAS COA.

C'mon, Mike.

Then you play the "Anti-PAAS" game.

You're not an innocent victim here.



When I get home tonight, I will post another autograph with a PAAS COA and you can tell us if the COA has been altered or "faked."

This whole post is a joke.


Jos..eph Dw.ek

From Koschal's website
 

http://www.stephenkoschal.com/testimonials.html

Are these quotes taken out of context, made up, very old, or something else?

"I, Michael Frost President and lead authenticator of P.A.A.S. Professional Autograph Authentication Services have known Stephen Koschal for over 20 years. I am proud to have worked with Stephen Koschal for many of those years on autograph studies and autograph authentication. I would consider him as the top autograph expert in the world today. Stephen Koschal's library of autograph exemplars is second to none and I have had the pleasure of using and viewing his autograph exemplar library. Stephen Koschal has written many books and 100's of articles on autograph collecting and autograph reviews and authentication. Stephen Koschal is one of my teachers and mentors when it comes to autograph studies and authentication. I have spent 100's of hours working with Stephen Koschal as well as reviewing his authentication work. I have always found him to be very professional and one of the most honest people I ever met within the autograph industry. In all the years I have known Stephen Koschal and worked with him I can not recall a single item ever being returned or questioned on the basis of authentication.".................................. .................................................. ......................Mike Frost, Florida


"your experience always brings a smile to my face...." Richard Simon, Sports Autograph Expert/Authenticator

Mr. Frost's bio if you are interested.

http://www.paasautographs.com/credentials.html