I’m done
 

PSA has yanked me around for the last time. Over a month and a half on a ten day submission with just finding out today it will be late next week till it’s done.

All they can offer me is an “I’m sorry” when asked if they can give some sort of credit or discount on the order. All times are “estimated”. Lol

From now on SGC will get all my submissions.

Piss poor customer service on their part! Can't say I blame you. This happened to me a couple years back but they did credit me. Take away the registry aspect, and they're a skeleton of a company!

I sent in an autographed postcard a few years ago; asked for the rush service and it came back weeks later. Not even an apology or voucher, credit, etc. I won't send them anything anymore unless it's an issue that SGC won't grade.

Go to the National and look at their line and then look at SGC's line. Then come back and tell everyone that they are a "skeleton" of a company. For the record I am an SGC guy.

I repeat, if you take away the registry, they would be a skeleton of a company period! The registry is the driving force of their success and has been for a long time.

Did you write the service level on the outside of your package? I've found not doing this can causes delays.

Yup
 

I always do and did this time as well. And I get that they are busy and backed up. But at the end of the day that’s not my problem. You offer a service and when you can’t deliver it’s bad for business. I realize they won’t miss a beat without my submissions but with the way they’re going about all this will prompt more and more people to consider SGC that aren’t in it totally just for manipulated resale value Psa holders get.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but it’s kind of flawed logic. It’s like saying: take away Nike’s brand cachet and they’d be a smaller company. Yes, because eliminating a company’s marketing generally has negative consequences.

I've heard nothing but negative comments about PSA in 2018.

I can't believe SGC hasn't made a bigger push to put together a registry.

Well....they cut their dividend in half and their stock was down from about $26 to $17 today.....problems in their coin grading business. They stated PSA and DNA are doing really well though. For them, that is. Not fur us as the spending public.

Did they ever get their message boards up? Between the failing of vintage cards and the turn time, I've been sending more to SGC as well

I submitted a card right before Christmas and it was graded within the 10 business days. Not sure what's happening lately.

It's really getting bad over there. Everything is taking forever. Long time to log in the cards. Long time to get items graded. People are paying for rush service and instead, having items take months to get graded with no compensation whatsoever. Not a good way to run a business.

I couldn’t care less about the registry for my own cards but it’s definitely useful information. I love SGC though... always come back way before the states turnaround time and I think their slabs look awesome.

What's the rush?
 

If your card is 100 years old and you plan to keep it forever... what's the rush? I'm not a "card submitter" so just asking

I know one of the issues they've had here in 2018 is they moved to a new/bigger location in California. Even so, that really shouldn't have produced the kind of delays that are being experienced by pretty much everyone, regardless of the service level they'd paid for.

I'm paying well below published rates so my ability to bitch is somewhat limited, but taking 2-3 weeks to enter stuff into their system and then not meeting their service level deadlines kinda ruffles me a bit.

It's pretty hard to give an estimate to my customers for PSA orders because of this so I guess the good thing is that most of them don't really care when they get their stuff back as they aren't needing to flip/sell immediately.

IMHO, they are basically where Beckett was this time last year - drowning in orders without enough man-power to handle it. They also followed the same path BGS did by thinking increasing prices would slow people down. It didn't then and it won't now. They are going to have to do something here pretty quick or even the most loyal submitters are going to start re-thinking their grading strategies.

I'm in a unique position being like 10 minutes from BGS so submitting with them is a breeze for me as I can just run by and drop it off in-person and the clock starts immediately. They are cranking out everything I hand them without issue so just keep that in-mind.

Yea I haven't mailed anything in a while. They're so close to my house I just drop stuff off in person now. Before when there was a delay getting an order in the system I would just call and they would help me out. That may no longer be the case if they're that backed up.

I wouldn't call the premium PSA cards sell for manipulated. The market seems to have decided they're worth more. Whether it's the registry, marketing, or a perception that they have tougher standards is certainly up for debate. I believe it's probably a combination of those, and maybe other factors, but it doesn't really matter at this point. They sell for the most so people will keep using them.

It’s gotta be due to the registry cause their grading standards are so outta whack. Consistently inconsistent.

I agree with this. Collectors feel PSA is a more valuable brand, right or wrong. That said, I still like SGC for vintage....and that is where my whole collection went to when it was sold a few years ago. If I collect another 20 yrs and sell again it will probably still go back to SGC. I feel they are better vintage graders (I don't know about newer stuff).....I have sent one submission to PSA and most likely that was my last one.

If you believe them to be inconsistent, why did you send to them in the first place? Isn’t this thread about your delayed submission?

Hmm
 

Just playing the game so many others do. Rolling the dice. But them days are over now after this incident.

Im happy to say my last two SGC submissions have been flawless and pretty much spot on to my grading estimates. This last one was 45 business days and was graded and shipped on day 27. I never tried a PSA submission though I do like there new holders alot.

Really? Sometimes you just need to confirm for yourself what everyone else is saying.

What year is this? 2018? 2016? 2012? Nothing in this thread is new. I've been reading about these problems with Psa for years.

Ive only submitted to psa at the national...same day service...was satisfied each time...and always cards for resale. Most cards i buy are already graded. For my collection sgc is preferred.

The fact psa is “stealing” peoples money by not delivering advertised service is bs.

I cant think of any orher aspect of life where this would be tolerated??

If they say clearly that cannot guarantee shipping times and can only do their best essentially, they can take 12 months to return the card to you. NOt providing any guarantee of anything.
Having said that, my last submission to them will be my last for a loooooong time.

They don't charge your credit card until their work is completed. I wish other vendors did the same. Just playing devils advocate. I was hoping for GRADES before this weekend and I don't even have them LOGGED!

You can't rightly charge people for expedited service, complete the service at a lower speed level and then claim "we don't guarantee anything" -- and not even refund the difference in price. Basically you're paying extra money with the hope that the cards get returned quicker. But you have zero guarantee. And they know this and still take the higher fees.

If any company was deserving of a class action suit, PSA is it.

You guys can justify their tactics anyway you want! As has been stated if they cannot guarantee what they are offering for a given price than they should not offer these services. If you send a card in for three day turnaround it takes them a month they should refund you the difference.

I realize they no longer offer the service but I remember when dominos pizza, I think, guaranteed delivery in 30 minutes or less. I’m guessing you would not be satisfied if that pizza came one month later?

Even when it came in 30 min or less, it tasted like it was a month old!

haha...that was the old recipe!!!

Let do it...I agree.

I haven't researched the law yet but it seems to me that if you continue to offer the public a service you know you cannot possibly fulfill, you are committing some kind of consumer fraud even if the fine print in your contract says you don't guarantee timing. I'd report the mess to the California Attorney General's office and see if they can investigate it.

The collapse of PSA's scheduling doesn't impact their on-site activity. They will be doing express grading at the Long Beach show on site in two weeks. I guess rustling up new $50+ fees is more important than clearing the backlog of existing customer orders.

So we all know Adam and Jeff are intelligent lawyers...and there isn't a thing I could argue with either.

Every time I have paid for a service in any other business and they were late, a representative for said business has apologized and attempted to make things rights offering a discount, future discount or something until I was satisfied which usually continues the business relationship as they were accountable.

But PSA...like Adam said, instead of working on the backlog they are just accepting more work. They cannot perform the function that people are paying for and know it but just act like its not their problem. I bet if everyone stopped sending in submissions for a month it would get their attention. I guess I just winder why anyone tolerates this? Their "standards" change and standards shouldn't change...that's why they are standards. They just grade vintage like shit compared to SGC who has their own problems. Us consumers do have a voice and every time you submit to them to use your voice and vote. We are smart enough as a community to fix this...PSA sucks.

S Suckow

It's almost unfathomable that this is a public company. They really do need a high profile black eye to wake them up. I can't imagine their board members are aware of the garbage that is going on over there. Can you imagine if Boeing told their shareholders, "we can't get these plane orders fulfilled because we're really just getting slammed with so many orders." Heads would roll.

But CLCT just continues to take money in that they don't earn with the promise to deliver cards in approximately x number of days -- and rarely if ever delivers. And now they're accepting packages but not logging them in as accepted orders to start the clock on their promised time for grading, just to buy themselves more time. I'm telling you, a class action would be a slam dunk.

All of you guys are saying and asking questions and they all have one answer. MONEY

Why do collectors put up with it? MONEY (they feel they get more by using them)

Why does PSA keep doing it? MONEY (see top answer as to why)

It really is a circular question with the same answer each time. Ethics aside :), I actually don't blame them. This is a capitalist society and as long as they can do it and not get ensnared legally for doing it, why not?

Just playing a bit of devil's advocate here. BTW, I think we do have a lawyer or two on the board who have some experience in class action suits.

.

Not to worry. They are aware of the problem and working on it :)

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...d-times#latest

Well, the discussion (?) has been closed after Joe's reassuring message.:eek:

In other words, "Shut up and stop complaining?"

A federal class action lawsuit will get their attention and changes will be made. In addition, they will be coughing up all the money they dishonestly took from their customers.

I've been given vouchers for cards that were not given back on a guaranteed service. Estimated is just that. You have to love on their site "if you need them back faster, consider a higher service level"

Even though the CLCT dividend has not been this low since 2007 (do we need a bake sale for David Hall?), this company is not going anywhere. Its' market cap is $157 million. The aggregate value of its' registry sets is probably in the billions. If CLCT went under the value of the collectibles in their holders would drop precipitously (I believe). Big dollar registry guys will keep this ship afloat.

Too big to fail ? :)

More like too painful to registry holders to fail

You might wonder how quick they clean this up if customers start charging back their credit card transactions for not providing the services at the stated times?

Banks and credit card processors do not take kindly to massive amounts of chargebacks...

Can this be done? I'm just asking as I have no idea. The card still gets graded but not in the time table they quote...seems like psa failed to live up to their end of the contract. It also seems that lower rates would be applicable at that point requiring a credit to the card. Jeff? Adam?

They have changed ALL turnaround times to estimated.

Sounds like PSAs new slogan should be "we'll get your card back to you at some point, and when we do we'll be fairly sure it's authentic and unaltered".

Sounds like a solid offering.

Or PSA/DNA " we'll failed 80% of everything, so keep resubmitting and eventually some will pass"

Yes that may be so.. however, you are being charged by estimated time/service levels and the argument with your credit card issuer is "they are charging me for 10 day service level, my order did not get processed for 40 days." The card issuer usually agrees with the customer especially with egregious delays such as this...remember its not like they are waiting for parts or supplies from vendors and while PSA may be able to get away with say 11-15 days on a 10 day submittal with a voucher or two to drop it, 40 days I would guess wouldn't fly and you would win, get a credit back and PSA would lose out..

If enough people do that they will change for sure as part of their credit card pricing is based on chargeback ratios... and an increase for that reason will certainly sting...

Thanks to all for the insight. Not being a lawyer, this makes an interesting read. Essentially paying for a service (in terms of time) that they basically do not deliver on.

If the turnaround times for the "fast" service is that far out, has it made all levels behind?

Thanks for the link to the CU page, and the message from Joe O. One comment I found interesting is the following:
"We need to make sure that every person handling the collectibles are properly trained, and that training can take time."

Seriously, how hard is it to train someone on how to grade a card? Here are the 5, 10, or 15 things we look at (I have no idea), and here are the tools we supply you to do this. I think putting a Big Mac might be slightly less complicated.

I can only take a perspective from what I do for a living, which is IT system deployment and implementation. It's not like these folks are being trained on the latest SAP release, or an Oracle Financials system implementation.

My experience with PSA - submitted a 1967 Planet of the Apes pack in unbelievable Gem Mint shape - it came back in a PSA 8 holder with a nice big tear in one of the corners. The slabbing of the pack reduced the value by 75%.
What a deal!!!!
I have never dealt with their professional services after that incident.

I also don't understand the fascination with PSA. How nice of a card can we stick in our holder and throw a "1" on the slab. Who needs 'em. My business all goes to SGC. Much more realistic grades.

Yes...their treatment of their customers is definitely making me rethink using them in the near future. I know I got the group sub going on, but damn. I really don't like how they are treating people.

In my opinion people use PSA for one major reason that being resale value. Until their prodcut, aka slabbed product, takes a hit in future sales I see nothing changing. I believe they have hired a bunch of new graders, many of which do not know vintage or have yet to learn it. Hopefully things will improve. It will take time. Another cycle to go through. I'm in it for the long run so I just roll with the punches. Maybe next year it will only take one or two times for them to grade vintage properly. :)

John Marsili

Relax. I have received word that PSA is actively training new recruits as we speak. And as soon as the new season of "Blue's Clues" ends, they promise to pick up the pace.

Attachment 305176

Watch it. I absolutely have one of those magnifying glasses at my desk and use it frequently.

If they don't want a lawsuit mess they need to hire more sharp eyed 18 year old kids to grade the mass of cards that have apparently back logged. They can afford it.

Larry ( sflayank) pointed out on post war that another issue, not solved by hiring a hoard of sharp eyed 18 year old people, is their inability to consistently identify and distinguish more offbeat or non mainstream issues, and what should be included in such sets.

Maybe they should pay some older guys like Andy Madec and a few others that are capable of identifying everything about cards. They would be worth a pretty penny to the company.

Internal Memo from Joe O:

Due to our backlog of items to be graded, graders lunch breaks are being temporarily suspended until we catch up. However, to be humane, big macs will now be served in the grading room. Remember the appropriate grade reductions for sauce, cheese and onions on the cards you are grading.:eek:

Attachment 305178

Attachment 305179

Attachment 305180

Attachment 305181

Hmmm
 

I got told a new one today...apparently your turnaround time doesn’t start till 24hrs after they enter it in their system. They have always told me it had started once entered in the system. Just another excuse to get a extra day outta ya.

I received a phone call at 10PM EST one night from someone at PSA who chewed me out over a post I made on their forum about a questionable Gretzky auto. The person who laid me out said that Joe Orlando read the post and banned me for it. That's cool, no worries, but the call was unprofessional and unnecessary. When the phone rang that late my first reaction was that something bad happened to someone in my family. I really shouldn't give them another cent but, to me, aesthetically PSA's cases are perfect. I send cards every month - and they're always late to log in and pop. I'm in no hurry, so it doesn't really bother me.

That took a lot of balls on their part! Can you imagine what would have happened if you took Joe’s hair brush and tooth whitener? Unprofessional is an understatement! That company stock drop must be getting to him?

The other side
 

The other side of this situation is my latest experience with SGC. I mailed a T213-2 Cobb, with 5 day service, (which is not guaranteed), on Monday, Feb 5th. SGC received the package on Thursday the 8th and logged it into the system the same day. On Tuesday the 13th I received an email that the card had been graded and the results were on their website. The package was in the mail on the 14th, and I should have it back in my hands today or tomorrow.

That is a 4 business day turnaround, which includes the day that the package was logged in.

BTW, there have been a lot of posts that accuse SGC of not having a registry. but SGC DOES have a registry. I have 52 SGC graded T213-2's, with photos, listed on their registry.

Rick

My thoughts
 

I honestly don't think they could afford ANdy anymore. They don't pay what they used to pay. From my understanding having actually heard from Joe on this subject the back log was a combination of a huge spike in submission, due to an explosion in the grading of pokemon (yes POKEMON) cards coupled with the move to the new location. And despite the snide comments on here they have to find qualified people and then train them. not just on the grading end but on the receiving and data entry end. these are valuable collectibles the people are dealing with you can't just hire anyone off the street to do it. They have apparently hired several more graders and they have been trained and they were also hiring more receiving personnel. Honestly if you are in The Newport Beach area and want a job and are qualified give them a call they are still hiring, well as of 2 weeks ago anyway. I was also told that though they are behind on the turnaround times, considerably, they are still processing the faster services levels quicker than the bulk service levels.

After the past year of submissions I've decided to only use PSA for Reviews, Reholders, and Crossovers. I'm done playing the game. All my free grades per year will be for the Red PSA/DNA holders.

This is great, it will clear the way for my submissions.

Sarcasm on

I strongly prefer PSA over SGC and Beckett. It is much easier to break the cards out of their slabs.

Not a card but what I do when I get an item in a PSA holder that is for my personal collection.

If and when I ever sell my most valuable pieces.
 

They will be PSA authenticated, no doubt.

It’s done.
 

Just received notification my order is done and being shipped. Nothing like 36 days on a 10 day turnaround. Oh wait..it’s only estimated lol

If you hadn't complained out here you'd be waiting another 36 days.

My ten day order was picked up by PSA on 2/3--their records say they received the package 2/5. Ten business days later it hasn't even been entered into their system to start the 'ten day' clock.

It's beginning to feel a lot like 1979: America Held Hostage

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ze/Hostage.jpg

Never get cheated? More like "Never get anything back on time."