Spalding Ford Frick Ball - Not What It Seems
 

I wanted to bring attention to an item on eBay that may be a possible fake. I just saw the item this morning and it ends today so I apologize for the quick notice.

The item in question is Spalding National League Ford Frick ball with multi colored seams - http://www.ebay.com/itm/290923716641...84.m1438.l2649

Back on October 28th, 2012 I sold a Spalding Ford Frick baseball with all red seams. If you compare the pictures below, you will find that the scuff marks and dirt on the ball I sold (then with red seams) match perfectly with the ball in question (now with the multi colored stitch seams). To make matters worse, the person that purchased this ball is a board member. Since you cannot view the item in question on eBay because enough time has elapsed, I have enclosed screen shots of the auction from my October eBay invoice - the invoice listing doesn't fit on one screen so there are a few shots. The accounts used to purchase this baseball and the one to sell it are different, however, if you look at name history of the seller (pastimecollectibles), the first name he used is the name of the person on the paypal account that purchased the baseball. To me, this practice is very disturbing and thought the board would be best served to see for themselves. I did email Leon ahead of time to give him a heads up and he was fine with me posting as long as I printed facts and signed my name.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...psd18fb7bb.jpghttp://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ps6a117f86.png


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...psc566940d.png
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ps8d60323b.png
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ps3edf3a5b.png

Wow, yes I bought that a while back and sold it with a few other poor quality baseballs to a very close FRIEND of mine. I will contact them immediately and take care of this bs!

I hope it all gets worked out. Same rules for me and everyone on the board...and everyone knows the rules. Put your name by it and say pretty much what you want to.....

Definitely the same ball... very sleazy. Plus, the seller has all Private feedback (another red flag).

I am curious as to how they execute this procedure. Do they just treat every other stitch with some chemical, to dis-color it? Or is it completely re-stitched?

Seems like it would be very cumbersome and time-consuming either way (and hardly worth the approximate $300 profit). Especially given the risk of getting caught.

Despicable practice, either way... I guess fraud in our hobby isn't limited to forged autographs, trimmed cards and Ad Signs from Ohio!

M a r l< S t e l n b e r g

Still trying to understand this. Got that Brandon bought the ball in October, but who sold the ball today? Brandon or the "friend"? If the "friend" sold it today, who is it (for future reference)? If Brandon sold it today, that means he sold it to his "friend", along with other balls, and then somehow reacquired it in order to sell it today for a significant profit. Either way, alterations were not caught nor disclosed by any party.

Jerry F!cch!

I collect memorabilia, baseballs , early bats gloves etc. This makes me sick...I am one step out the door from collecting if this is where we are heading. Anyone buying...

Yikes
 

Thanks for the post Brett. I can imagine your surprise when you realized that it was the exact same ball you sold.

All I can say is WOW, YUCK and YIKES!

Brandon, I hope that one didn't make the book. Did your friend get back to you yet?

19th century, Kevin, write me!

I could not get a hold of the seller, they are not calling me back, I think they're starting to realize the significance of the situation, especially with it involving my name. However, I knew the buyer and immediately called them (another member and friend) and told them to cancel the transaction and do not pay for the ball, which has happened now. So for now the ball will not be sold, and I will try to acquire it back to be destroyed. I will also be cutting ties with this individual. If anyone has any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me outside of the forum through my website.

Good to hear Brandon... absolute right thing to do. Just curious as to how you know the buyer, if you cannot get the seller to call you back?

I'm also still eager to hear if they re-colored the alternating stitches, or just re-stitched the entire ball. Seems like a laborious procedure either way...

Crazy, If someone can execute this then I bet I am right when I have been saying for years that MOST of the 19th century Lemon Peel and Belt Style Balls that have surfaced over the last 5 years are fake too!

Unfortunately your name is associated with this mess. Good to hear that you are doing the right thing. Maybe take a few clear photos of this altered ball before destroying it...maybe use it in your book to note that this version of the Frick ball does not exist. Nah, just blow it up and post video of that. :D

Just curious, how did you find so quickly who the buyer was?? The auction ended only two hours ago.

I didn't know at first, then looked at the feedback score and it was a high and familiar score. The buyer is a friend who buys only vintage baseballs so when I called, first I just asked if it was him, and it was!

When looking through prior eBay user names for “pastimecollectibles”, the seller of the ball in question, “brandongrun” was listed as a prior user id. Could you explain please?


Jerry F!cch!

Wow....just wow.

pastimecollectibles Feb-24-13 Present
antiquebaseballscom Jun-24-12 Feb-24-13
vintage-baseballs*com Mar-06-11 Jun-24-12
pastimebaseballs_com Mar-23-10 Mar-06-11
brandongrun May-25-07 Mar-23-10

Yes, like I said, a very close friend/business partner. I had a paypal chargeback years ago which made me unable to accept payments or buy stuff on eBay, I used his name and SSN on the paypal and have worked under that for about 7 years. hence the original connection. This ball was in my original possession and used for the book, then handed off to him, it should have never been made public or for sale, and that was an agreement. It was broken. I'm trying to do the right thing here.

Old thread
 

Pastime Baseballs.com

I started a thread in Nov 2010 about pastime baseballs selling fakes, and this seller is oddly enough Pastime Collectibles, from the same area.

No coincidence. They even used to have a website selling the Repro/fake balls, very hard to tell them apart.

I would bet this clown has been selling a lot of fakes w/various Ebay ID's over the years.

Brandon - its in your area......who is this clown and how do u know him?

Was it used in the book as a multi-color stitch ball or in its original condition? Who doctored that baseball?

I don't want to throw anyone under the bus as of yet, he is a good guy, sold repro's but nothing like this before, a one time thing. Please let me try to handle the situation.

How is the ball pictured in the book?

So, who did the alteration? The "partner" who may have a history of doctoring balls or you, the ball authenticator?

Was this, or any other doctored balls, used in your book and does your publisher know this?

Seems the choice to be made is publlicly share the name of the fraud on this forum (you said you'd be cutting ties with him in a previous post) or risk people thinking (rightly or wrongly) that the seller is and has been you all along.

I'm confused at this statement - if you are unable to have a PayPal account then why is your name on the PayPal receipt for the original purchase of this ball? Since you used his name and SSN, shouldn't his name be on the account?

I don't think the question gets any simpler than this: How is the ball used in the book?

Potentially a stupid question, but was there ever a period in which the NL used a red and tan laced ball?

Please don't confuse a "shipping" address to an owner of the paypal account name. The paypal account I use currently is not in my name, but has the Business title of History of the Baseball. Reason for this is my bad credit history with paypal as explained. Not changing these accounts or names was pure laziness on my part, and I am obviously paying for that now.

Now on to the use of this ball in the book. This ball is NOT used in the book. It was originally going to be used to replicate an extremely rare 1930's All-Star ball, a ball that I have not seen for sale, nor would have the funds to purchase if one surfaced, but I really wanted and needed it in the book. This ball was restitched by the replicator to be used strictly for photos, and that's it. However I acquired photographs of a genuine model months later, and no longer needed the replicated stitching.

It is not my place to release a name to a public forum, to people I do not know, I do not want any legal issues raised against me. I now see that it was a big mistake to have the ball switch hands after my use, my intentions in the memorabilia community have always been to out reproductions and fakes, which I do on a daily basis, including THIS particular ball, and help the industry with the knowledge I have gained over the years.

All baseballs in the book are genuine, however there are times where logos, color, etc need to be enhanced with photoshop, but it had never crossed my mind that this was a bad thing at all. The goal is to represent the best information possible, and if that involves making a yellow ball a little more white, or a logo a little more crisp, then I did so thinking people would rather see cleaner models so the ball is easily identifiable. If you disagree with this please let me know. Does anyone have opinions on that?

I have not made one dime from this book, I work full time and am doing this as a love for the game and it's artifacts, and to educate my fellow collectors. I would have no point to tarnish my reputation selling anything fraudulent, and would never do so for a cheap ball.

I apologize if some of you need more explanation than that, but I feel I have taken care of the matter, this ball will be back in my possession and destroyed. I just hope that some of you appreciate what I have done, and acknowledge the many hours I've committed to removing fraudulent memorabilia from eBay and other sites, including autographed baseballs.

And to Nathaniel, this type of ball was used for what I believe were all-star games in the 1930's, but not regular games.

Say it isn't so Joe Brandon.

If this ball in its altered state is in your book, well then your book is...YIKES!

We really need the whole story here.

Is someone sayin, I smell a rat..brandon this needs a full explaination and tell everyone who he is. And no he isn't a nice guy.

To me, the story is flimsy and doesn’t eradicate the few facts that we actually have. It’s just my opinion, but I’m not buying it, at all. Until we are privy to the person behind the alteration and sale, one must conclude that it is Brandon given he originally bought the ball and the last person to sell the ball had an eBay id that used to match his name. It’s going to be extremely difficult to alter this conclusion. Simple, rational deduction all point to this. A complex, tangled web of an explanation just makes the case more unbelievable.


Jerry F!cch!

Wow. Pretty sad how quick some people will throw a good member of this forum under the bus. Brandon has helped tons of people with questions about baseballs and look how he gets treated.

I would say he is out in front of the bus, not under it . Be careful...

Some balls if you ask me :rolleyes:

The problem is that Brandon is the board expert on vintage baseballs. He is the one who is actually writing the book on the ball itself. Whenever anyone had a question on identification or authentication of a newly discovered ball we would wait until Brandon responded to the question. Brandon even was allowed access to the non-public archives at The Hall of Fame in Cooperstown to conduct his research. There is no doubt that he is an expert. Count me as one more member who is thankful for the questions I had which were answered by Brandon...however...

...I had an overwhelming feeling of 'oh no' as I read every new post in this thread. This just does not pass the smell test. I am disappointed.

I admitted that I made a mistake in selling some reproduction cabinet photos I made (which I clearly marked as reproduction on them) only to have those people turn around and try to pass them off as real after they scratched off the repro markings I put on them. I'm willing to take his word for it that the person that sold the item is not him...I think he should out this person though, there's not one single reason for him to take the heat on this when his friend is the one who tried passing off a fake.

I agree that the culprit should definitely be outed. But in writing this, I realize it sounds like hoping that OJ finds the real killer.

Either way, I hope we get some definitive resolution to this troubling matter (to include the actual seller as well as the person who re-stitched that baseball).

Just out of curiosity - I imagine you search eBay so how did you miss seeing this rare baseball, one that you've never seen for sale before? It was listed in the vintage baseballs category and ran for 7 days. You admitted that you knew this faked ball existed. If I saw my friend selling something I knew was fake I would have done something about it right away.

He's a good guy? He sold this fake, I'm fairly certain he's sold other fakes as I remember that ID before and even started a thread on the joker years back. He hides feedback, for what reason? I believe we know. He took a ball from you and re-sold it knowing what it was, yet completely lied in his listing. He pretty far from a good guy.

Brandon? Thoughts on Brett's post above?

I have some more questions:

The eBay name of the seller of sham ball was originally your name, yet you claim that the seller is merely a friend/partner of your's? Why would he use your name at all? If you had a Paypal problem, why not just create a new ID for yourself? There isn't a high feedback # for the sham seller...nothing to lose there.

Why would you, the guy who is writing the book on balls, associate with a known seller of repros? You wrote that you sold the ball to him, but asked him not to re-sell it? You know he sells repros, why would he hold onto a ball that was not legit? It isn't a collectible. Of course he was going to try to sell it. Is he, you?? If not, then who is it?

Why did you not stop the eBay sale? You are the ball guy, you must have seen it out on eBay.

Why did you join the conversation only after Brett's original post?

Yep, the private feedback thing is another flag.

The big problem here isn't merely another shady seller on eBay. The problem is that this sham seller may be the guy who is writing a book on baseballs. I now quote myself, "YIKES"!

I'm not sure anything I can say right now will remedy your views at this point. I tried in a previous post to explain everything, including my relationship to the seller. The ball wasn't sold. I noticed just a little too late to have the auction stopped by contacting the seller, I don't live and die on eBay. The buyer ended up being a friend, and I immediately called them and told them to cancel the sale and don't pay for it. They are a member and can confirm that, I will not give that name either though. So just to be clear, the ball was NOT sold.

I cannot give a name as I still have very close personal and financial ties as explained earlier, including website fees and registration for work I've done in the past when I was a full time designer, and I cannot lose that stuff. This person is not a board member, and barely sells anything on ebay anymore, yes they sold repros, but ALWAYS listed as such. Because of our ties with paypal and such, he kept the ebay name to retain the feedback count, and as you can see I started a new one. I'm not sure what good that would do for me especially because those who don't trust me, aren't going to have their minds changed.

I made a $20.50 mistake here, trusted the wrong people, and now I'm being compared to the likes of OJ. I get the concern, but I don't understand the logic of a guy like me, with so much invested in accuracy and credibility purposefully defrauding someone for peanuts, a month before releasing my guides. So if you want to blame me, blame me, but I cannot keep defending every post.

It has come to a conclusion that this is a witch hunt, and it seems I will be taking the full brunt of the blame here regardless, and maybe rightfully so as it was poor judgment on my part not holding on to the ball originally. I never specifically said don't sell the ball, but just assumed they would know better. Again, a poor lapse in judgment on my part. But what comes next here? I don't release the book, I don't help out anymore, over this? The assumption was guilt from the get go, I'm losing a friend, I'm losing credibility...This is a no win for me any way this goes. I don't see what else can come from this, people are selling trimmed cards for hundreds of thousands, and fake Ruth's for thousands, and this is the topic that ruins my credibility? Having a friend who's an idiot?

To those of you that know me, or have taken my advice on baseballs, I sincerely apologize if you feel different about me because of this situation, but my hopes would be that this gets put behind me. This has made me angry and physically sick, and don't know what else to say. This will be my last post regarding this, and I will not be looking at the thread any longer. you can PM me if you would like to talk.

This too......"High & Familiar Feedback score"......if u look at his bidding history he only has bought 1 vintage baseball in the past 30 days.....and I went thru all winning bidders for the last 90 days of vintage balls and I do not see that feedback score anywhere. How can you recognize a feedback score from a guy who is not buying??? I could see if the buyer was TGOS who buys several balls monthly, but this buyer bought 1 ball, this one, in the last 30 days. I believe u also said the buyer was a member of the board, so I'm hoping he chimes in. He can make a copy of the order details, showing the seller and that then would clear your name. Could even block out the sellers last name so no harm no foul. I'm for you Brandon, but the possession arrow is pointing the wrong way, until proven otherwise.

"Only buys vintage baseballs".........he doesn't "only" buy vintage baseballs......."gulp":

What’s perplexing to me (no, not what’s been uncovered, that’s pretty much open and shut) is the back and forth with singular and plural uses of pronouns describing this “friend”. The above quote is from his last post, but it’s also being done in his very first post when he says he will contact “them”. Poor grammar, possible, but I’m beginning to suspect there is much, much more to this story that what we have here.

Jerry F!cch!

Here it is, from the beginning.

Looks like this baseball buyer also buys lots of aviation stuff...Brandon is a pilot. This is probably just another coincidence. :rolleyes:

Brandon has just been spotted on the I405 Freeway in a White Bronco with his "friend".


sorry had to.

Brandon, I know you said you were done with this thread, but I see you logged in and looking at this thread so why not out this guy? It's only getting worse for you and this "friend' who threw YOU under the bus is skating away. What's more important? Your reputation or this business partnership with a scoundrel?

Wow...just wow. All this unfolds as he is trying to sell more advertising space in the book and only seven weeks before the National (the date near which he wanted his books in the hands of the suckers collectors).

I was long looking forward to buying his book when it was finally finished. Again, I write that I am disappointed. :confused:

Given Brandon's huge loss of credibility, who is going to step up and write a book on the ball in which we can trust?

Well I know things look bad but I'm gonna stand by Brandon's side. I think someone with his knowledge, if he was going to rip people off don't you think he'd pick a more pricey baseball?

But for the rest of you, I have pitchforks for sale.

This has now become amusing. I have a single prior post on this forum.....regarding Brandon's book a while ago. It seems that there are some here who have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express expressing opinions about what they think they know. It does confirm to me, that this is a place for cock measuring between imbeciles.

Time to set these MFers straight.

I am Sawit (Wit) Raymond. I won the auction in question. Shortly after the auction ended, Brandon called and asked if it was in fact me, who won the auction. After confirming his suspicions, he told me not to purchase the ball. Brandon is someone whom I consider a friend. We have gone head to head on many balls in the past. Sometimes I win. Sometimes, he does. Sometimes, it rains. He has confirmed the authenticity of parts of my collection. He has been to my home and taken photos of my collection for his book.

I buy many items on eBay. I'm an Air Force brat, particular to the Republic F-105 Thunderchief. I buy many items related to that. Search Lou Drendel, aviation art. I have two paintings reserved. Look on his web page and you'll see my history of commissions on that page. I am even mentioned in an ebook of his.

I tend to believe where there is smoke, there is fire. I've told Brandon to save his rep also.

I have watched this thread go and go. But, then, I see some asshole pull up my bid history and have others speculate about my buying habits. If there is nothing to buy to enhance my collection, I don't buy. Period. I also have that passion for aviation. I follow that, too. You want to know about my Kayden Kross Collection also?

In short, Brandon saved me from a headache and heartache about this ball. With hindsight, I think some things should have been done differently by him and his past organization of things.

Finally, Brandon and I are not in cahoots. Never have been. I suggest you pull your collective heads out of your asses and begin to know what the fu** you are talking about, before speculating regarding my purchases.

Sawit (Wit) Raymond is out.

Funny that Brandon didn't bid on this ball. He is the expert and this sham ball is "rare", right? Oh wait, I forgot, he was the seller of this ball.

Thanks for stepping up Wit, but the issue here isn't with the buyer.

Thanks for clearing a few things up...you could clear something else up by telling us the name of the seller, this would really help your buddy Brandon out and he wouldn't have to be the one to throw his "friend" under the bus.