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Ashamed - Topps T206 Buy Back Fraud
To my fellow friends and hobbits,
I write these words with shame well there's no excuse for what I did. I've already spoken to Leon about this issue and he's been nothing but a friend. Some of those tops by bikes that sold we're putting holders by myself. And I truly apologize we're bringing shame to the Hobby and to myself. I am working with Leon on this issue and I will make full restitution. With that said I humble myself before you and and ask for your forgiveness. |
Larry my old friend, how are you? I'm not sure what you meant by this line "Some of those tops by bikes that sold we're putting holders by myself."
Hope all is well, you were the first guy I ever bought a card from on Net54! Jeff |
I'm confused
Guess I need to go listen to the music play.
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Topps T206 buybacks?
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"Some of those tops by bikes that sold we're putting holders by myself."
I guess this should read, some of those topps buy backs that sold were put in holders by myself. |
I believe Larry is saying he had T206 cards, cleaned them up, then placed them in
Topps Buyback holders and sold them as such. |
Where would unused Buyback holders come from?
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I didn't realize that they carried a premium. I have cut all of mine out to fit in binders.
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Everyone makes mistakes. Assuming you are coming forward on your own accord and assuming restitution is made I say forgive and forget.
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If he has done something wrong and wants to make amends maybe rather than others interpreting or assuming facts, he should take a moment to clarify his initial post and spill all the beans in detail?
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Um
Don't agree with forgive and forget, no offense of course.
Everyone does make mistakes, of course, but I think Leon needs to weigh in here and the bright light of complete honesty and a clear post by the OP needs to happen. From what I can tell, the OP deliberately forged cards and sold them to unsuspecting buyers, perhaps even on this site. And is now asking for forgiveness, but I have no idea whether he was caught or is doing this of his own volition. Tony |
I'm down with forgive, but I'm part elephant when it comes to the forgetting thing.
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I forgive him yet still no Effin idea what this is about.
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If guilt got to him, then that's one thing, but if he was caught and was told to fess up and apologize, then that's another thing. |
I have a hard time viewing something done multiple times purposely as a mistake.
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I started a thread back in 2009 about this. |
I have a lot of info but let's see what comes out.
LL |
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Why aren't the facts of the matter just laid out? What's the point of us discussing this situation with each other, we weren't involved.
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Didn't this happen a few years ago? :confused:
Edited to add: Thanks for the link, Ben. Wow, time flies... |
Thank you for posting the link Ben.
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Am I safe in assuming it hast to do with these?
https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odk...yback&_sacat=0 |
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Put me in the "don't forgive or forget" camp. This isn't a mistake. It's not innocent. It's deliberate, repeated fraud. And it appears to have been going on for nearly a decade.
And Leon, all due respect, but you need to post what you know right away without waiting for Larry. Every day you wait is another day that an auction drops off of being visible on Ebay if it reaches the time limit... |
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Well at least he beat cancer...
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Why the apology 8+ years later? Did something happen recently, like an investigation? Just wondering what caused this level of regret all of a sudden.
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Collectors noticed this problem recently on Ebay this year.. I don't think they had any idea the OP had been called out on it before in 2009. Makes you go hmmmmmmm.
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That thread from 2009 is eye opening.
I'm wondering if the OP sold to the wrong person and that person is in a position to demand restitution immediately. I can see Leon's POV in giving Larry the chance to address the issues himself, but there's got to be a "within a reasonable timeframe" caveat to that. |
Even without considering the additional cost of acquiring the frames, very little profit there, unless that list is the tip of a larger iceberg.
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Here's an article about how this could really get out of hand...
http://www.andybroome.com/?p=38 Here's a fake Cobb in one... https://twitter.com/broomewithaview/...89713622552577 And a thread about removing the cards from the holders... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=87666 |
This hobby, whether it be the card side, autographs or memorabilia is a pretty tight nit community that relies on the honesty of it's core members. Oh sure, there's plenty of fraud all over, but the core of the hobby always tries to keep things honest and on the up-and-up, so when a member of this board since 2009 does something like this (again and again it appears) then it's inexcusable. Just my .02
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Exactly, this is ridiculous putting your reputation on the line for pennies. Also, I have to rescind my earlier forgive and forget sentiment given he did not come clean of his own volition it was only after being called out. |
Why hasn't Larry told his side about what happened? I think if there was a real reason behind this it would help to get it all out in the open.
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He was buying raw T206 commons on the cheap and making them look like Topps "Buy Backs" to increase their value. It's all about the $$$. |
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That's too bad. I was holding out hope that he at least would say something like "times were tough, money was tight, had to feed the family, in extreme debt, lost my job" Even if not true, it's better than nothing. The silence says it all I guess.
Jeff |
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In my opinion, it's never too late to come clean.
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By continuing to commit this crime after the first accusation in '09, it shows no remorse. I get irked when people try to justify crimes - aka excuses. 99% of human beings go through some sort of adversity at some point in their lives. |
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The guy was better off just keeping his mouth shut.
No need to even plant a seed on this site. He was obviously drunk or stoned when he posted his message as well. Heck, makes you wonder what else this guy could be doing. |
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I want to add a quick addendum. I think you are absolutely correct except in extraordinary cases like this. Usually, keeping your mouth shut is best. And lastly, I didn't ask for this to be part of my days. It sort of got thrown at me and something had to be done at that point. It took a little time to gather all of the info and get advice. Getting the word out asap was/is always a priority to me. |
Good point Leon.
Sorry this got dumped on you. |
So chances are the buyback that I have is probably not a topps buyback. Only reason I bought it was to have something a little different to go along with my back run.
This guy is a piece of crap! I never seen the old thread from 2009 until now. He stated that he didn't need the money and had 2 complete t206 sets. Wonder how many he made over all those years? Is there any way to tell which are legit topps buyback? Wonder what topps would think of this? |
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Don't Worry. I Can Help
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If anyone bought fraudulent cards in those holders they should request a refund and send the card back too (if Larry wants it). I am not sure how you tell unless you have before and after pictures, which there are some out there.
I think Larry might be more than willing to do what he can to make it right. At least that is my hope and what really has to be tried first anyway. It was certainly a sad day for me when I found this stuff out. . |
Well shit
I actually like and collect these cards, and now some guy has basically undermined the entire series. Thanks a lot butthole.
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Do guys really collect these? I honestly always thought the buy backs were some stupid thing Topps did that real T206 collectors just cut open anyways.
And why would anyone spend all that time and energy committing fraud for what appears to equate to less than minimum wage? Edited to add that I don't even collect T206....just going on what I've heard from many who do. |
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WOW!!! Just wow!!! What seems like a "victimless" crime at first blush really has turned into a "shit-storm" (pardon my French). Like someone else said, this one individual has undermined the entire set. It has been ongoing for possibly 10+ years. I feel sorry for those that were actively collecting this set.
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Great, I have been buying and collecting the Topps T206 buybacks for years. I have about 15 now still in the Topps holder. Have cut about 6 out and had them graded by BVG. What a mess. Lesson learned. Will only buy graded from now on...
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Lesson learned. Will only buy graded from now on...[/QUOTE]
Why wouldn't you just buy raw? From what I have gathered people are paying a premium for cards in a crappy TOPPS cardboard and plasticine holder when the actual card would be considerably less if bought without that holder. |
"And why would anyone spend all that time and energy committing fraud for what appears to equate to less than minimum wage?"
Ask Battlefield...those low $ transactions fly under the radar but eventually add up to some serious dough |
I've read this whole string and wonder if real T206s were put into the buyback holders, or was it fake T206s put into the buyback holders, thus more profitable (and not questioned for authenticity) .
Cory Weiser |
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Classic billboard Frank. The tagline could also have read "Just because you did it, doesn't mean you feel guilty". Brian |
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In my original thread from 2009, I had all three stages of the process laid out. Not the actual switch, but both buying transactions from Ebay, then the "FrankenT206" Buyback. I had posted scans as well, but since then they are no longer in my original thread. On a good note, at least this time I didn't have to call Leon and interrupt his poker game. Remember that Leon? :) Jantz |
Larry or Leon,
About how many of these tainted T206 have been sold over the years? 5? 20? 100? More? Also, am I understanding correctly that in at least some instances the cards themselves were altered in some way? Derek Hogue |
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All of the info was supplied to me by another board member but what was supplied looked spot on (obviously). I don't know positively of others but can only imagine. As far as I know a lot, if not most of the cards being put into the holders were AUT type cards. And on a lot of the before and after pictures, if not all, the after ones were cleaned too. That in itself isn't too big of a deal. All of other stuff is. . |
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I am still curious to know roughly how many of these were sold if and when that information becomes available. I hope that everyone will be given proper restitution and that Larry can find peace. I apologize and I am not trying to be nosey with my line of questioning ... I am just trying to take all of this in as information becomes available. I hope the number of these that were sold is small enough that the issue can be rectified. |
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