SGC is now authenticating autographs
 

SGC is now authenticating autographs

here is a sample:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Topps-5...item5652409ed3

Wonder what they charge. I have a really nice Ernie Banks 1965 topps autograph obtained in person at Cubs camp in 2007

Wonder what they charge.
 

I'm sure they will cheaper than both JSA and PSA for starters while they build a name in authenticating autos....

here is the phone numbers for them
800-SGC-9212 or 973-984-0018

good luck, and for HOF ers like banks, they will put HOF on the slab

thats pretty cool

I thought they already did autos?

It is about time they grabbed up some of that money they have been leaving on the table. I hope they do as good a job on autos as they do on cards.

I thought they already did autos?
 

before JSA would approve the auto and they would slab for them...

NOW , they are doing the authenticating....

I hope they do as good a job on autos as they do on cards.
 

==> good point, and I agree....did you see how they wrote Deceased on the Weaver flip, thats pretty cool....

Doesn't JSA own SGC now? I would assume they were the ones doing the authentication, no?

Doesn't JSA own SGC now?
 

no, that business partnership ended....SGC is not owned by JSA...at one point, JSA invested capital and was helping manage SGC , but SGC is currently independently owned and operated....

Here's one for you Rick

Here's one for you Rick
 

ken, that's a beauty

where did u get it signed ?

How much are they charging? I can't find anything on their website.

Also, anyone know who's doing the authenticating over there?

Cubs fantasy camp held every year in Mesa Arizona. It was the 25h anniversary camp and Mr Cub made an appearance. We were having cocktails in a hotel room of the camp photographer when Ernie walked in. Was awesome.

How much are they charging? I can't find anything on their website. Also, anyone kno
 

How much are they charging? I can't find anything on their website.

Also, anyone know who's doing the authenticating over there?

==> I don't think their site has the prices yet...
I'm not sure who is doing the authenticating but I heard the person worked at either jsa or psa at some point....

We were having cocktails in a hotel room of the camp photographer when Ernie walked i
 

very cool

He had some great stories. Ernie had me call my wife and he talked with her for about 5 minutes. He kept on telling her that she was the boss of our home and she needed to keep me in line. He was very personable. Signed anything we wanted signed.

Travis, where are you? Another company with three letters. For the rest of you have them tell you who authenticates for them and what there background is. I just can not think that anyone would be so excited with even knowing anything about the people that you are going to spend your money to tell you if it is (In there opinion it is authentic)
This is one more of many that have your interest because you respect them for something that has nothing to do with autographs.
I cant wait for all of you that come on this site and ask our opinions. Once you get a no I am sure you will seek out SGC to make sure. Wow how much do the charge. I cant wait a new company to tell me something you ask of us everyday. They are great, how exciting it to have a new company to take my money.

Jim, Richard, David,Chris, Travis or anyone else that has any balls should no longer give you any opinion.Pay
for it:( You know have a new place to spend your money. I am sure there experts are so much better than the people you ask everyday on this site for nothing.
I will say this, if anyone I have mentioned is part of this company. It is time for you to get paid.

i would like to know who the authenticators are, what their experience is, exactly who looks at the autograph. these are questions i have never gotten answers to.

it will be another psa, jsa clone to take your money and not give any transparency, responsibility, accountability, accuracy, customer service. same old same old. second verse, same as the first.

after reading tons of posts on grading services and frankly, tending to agree with the curmudgeons on most of their points, i think this is actually a pretty cool deal. more competition means doing more to earn business and if collectors need transparency and accountability hopefully these companies will start using those things to attract customers.

in the meantime, i intend to stay the heck off shelly's lawn.

If eBay doesn't except their autograph authentications .....it won't matter at all.

If eBay doesn't except their autograph authentications .....it won't matter at all.
 

dave, you are 10,000% correct, I was told that this was in process...sgc is very well regarded within the "trust and safety " world of ebay , so I think they should be able to get approved...

Awesome! Thanks for the heads up on the Weaver Signed RC- I needed one for the signed HOF RC collection and this is the first one I have seen, in what seems like weeks, at a decent price!

Thanks for the heads up on the Weaver Signed RC
 

enjoy, we will ship it today, thanks
rick

_________________
+1 Opinions given for free (at least when it comes to autographs) are percieved as having no value no matter how great or limited the expertise of the person rendering the opinion. However take the exact same item , charge $100.00 to have someone examine it and slab it (No matter for the level of expertise of the examiner or lack of it) and that item will be then be held with the same degree of reverence reserved for the Rosetta Stone or other precious artifact. It baffles me
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

I only get items I want to sell authenticated, and most collectors have never heard of Jim, Travis, Richard, or Chris, therefore they want the item to have a PSA/DNA or JSA certificate. I don't like it but that's the way things are. The first thing they ask us who is the cert from? Without even examining the autograph! It sucks that its this way but it is what it is.

Side note - I love the SGC holder and wouldn't mind getting some of my signed cards slabbed. That's why I wanted to know how much it is.

I would much rather give anyone on your list my business but when I go to sell at a show I show the cert or mention a name and they say "Oh so it's not PSA?"... So frustrating... :(

SGC authenticating autographs
 

I find it ironic that someone who owns a large auction / consignment business is "introducing" a service for SGC without providing any details regarding questions about primary authenticators working for SGC. I do not necessarily agree that PSA and JSA and potentially others do not have a purpose in the hobby as others routinely mention, but others are right on point with specific questions. If you plan on "mentioning" a service like this that is not public yet or listed on the SGC website (if others are correct) you should come clean with your knowledge or let others know where they can get their questions answered. This seems a little too convenient.

+1 agree...totally baffling. It's Buffoonery 101.:D

yes, and he conveniently glosses over other threads about shillings in his auctions etc. sgc has always been pretty upfront, i think they will have to let us know who the authenticator(s) is/are when they get this rolling. i'm thinking there has to be at least 2-3 experts as a modern players' sigs and signing habits are totally different than older players.

let's see, richard hasn't responded in this thread and he's only a state over from sgc so maybe they scooped him up? ;)

No mention of this on their site...yet.

http://www.sgccard.com/boards/ubbthreads.php

FWIW, there was a $11 special that ran about this time last year. The thread is in the Auto section.

From what I've been told, Michael Root (former JSA authenticator and director) will be doing the authentications. Rumor has it, they originally tried to recruit one of our valuable forum members.

any details regarding questions about primary authenticators working for SGC
 

any details regarding questions about primary authenticators working for SGC
==> I was told today that mike root is the director of authentication for SGC and that he was the former director of authentication at JSA...also, they have a large pool of consultants lined up helping , I don't know any of those names at this time , but I'm confident SGC will make them available once they update their website and launch and official press release.....

Just what the hobby needs more experts.

I don't know about this or that expert, but do know SGC is a reputable company that is concerned and careful about accurate identification in other areas.

So, Mike Root leaves James Spence to now run SGC. I don not see much of a change here. I thought up until know Jim did all there authenticating. Now they will make more money by entering a new market place besides autograph cards.;) Very nice. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I am sure they will be ALL household names in the autograph business , the "rumor" is correct BUT since all of the name brands in the autograph business do not come cheap ...Mostly because they already have lucrative established businesses you will get the "experts" that need the dough ,
You get what you pay for. Slabbing has become the new "legos" for adults
________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

Jim Stinson...NOT a cheap date!

JimStinson
 

Like an old whore in a bar--I'll buy her a drink but I won't go upstairs with her”
Ernest Hemingway

Doesn't Jimmy just teach people how to be him anyways? There are like a dozen people authenticating for him that I honestly have never heard of and who is to say who actually authenticated anything? I guess anyone can learn how to authenticate autographs with that kind of thinking.

Larry

Share a few beers with him for a very fun night :).

JimStinson
 

No I'm NOT a cheap date when it comes to autograph authentication ..because to do it right takes MONEY
And to put a 30 year reputation on the line does not come cheap, I'm not a SELL OUT whore that allows my name on any "so called certificate" there are plenty of those already.
_______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

Yup same here. I've actually purchased from Jim on ebay and man did I get my items fast :D

But since most regular collectors only know of the big two authentication companies, they won't buy the item unless it has the certificate. Go on any other website in the hobby and post an autograph for sale. The first thing they ask is who is the cert from. They don't even care about the autograph itself.

JimStinson
 

Best Option in this hobby today.. put a 25 year old kid behind a curtain pay him slightly above minimum wage and call him an expert. The sheep will flock in droves. What a country ! what a hobby ! lol
_______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

:D

JimStinson
 

If "most collectors" have never heard of Jim Stinson or Richard Simon its likely they have not been in this game too long. Pop quiz
1) Who were the original 4 consultants for PSA ?
2) Who was the consultant with the LEAST experience ?
3) Which consultant was a guest at Jim Stinson's wedding ? hint its the answer to #2
4) Is it important to you that the item have a COA or is REAL ?
and lastly if you think a COA is going to sell the item for you, REAL collectors ...REAL authenticators like the members who read this board are FAR smarter and informed than you think
________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

All bull aside. This is just another place opening up for business. My question is why would the public accept them as people they should trust. They are not PSA or JSA . Global was a joke, why not them.
Jim and Rich might make jokes but who in the autograph authenticating world has any idea who they are. Every one on this site even David has respect for them, but what does it mean when your trying to sell something? Not anyone who is going to spend money or try and resell an item purchased from them.
Tell the truth if you had a piece authenticated by the above mentioned would you try and have it authenticated by PSA or JSA if and when you wanted to sell it?
If you had a great boxing piece would you send it to Travis. Not a chance in hell. This is all about money.:mad:

well, i think that it really depends on what your goals are when buying things. in general, i wait for someone to sell something on B/S/T or Richard or Jim's email blasts because i'm a collector, not a seller.

all i care about is if it is real. i dont give a crap whether i can sell it on ebay.

+1:)

Not to burst your ego (like I even could ;) ), but..... "most collectors" don't know you guys from Adam. Just like they don't know *ANY* authenticator. But they put their money on the generally accepted belief (hope) that a TPA knows what they are doing. (Which feeds the scammers that have pretty holograms and websites).

Put another way: Let's say you are a seller of precious metals. You are a good merchant, possibly even the best. You always give your customers a fair price and good quality. But you measure gold composition in stinsons instead of karats. Your stinson may be identical to karats. Those who have done business with you, love your service and price. However, when they try to resell, they're going to have a hard time selling an 18 stinson gold chain without having to convert it to karats. For those in the know, easy sell. For the vast majority...not so much.

Disclaimer: I have not had any dealings with anyone mentioned thus far, including ANY TPA.

I'll take a wild guess on question #3 .. .
 

. . . and say perhaps it was/could have been fellow autograph dealer Bill Corcoran ?

I'm only guessing BC just because of both of you had worked from Florida at one time or another, as well as co-hosted a hospitality room together at a Cleveland National, with Bob Feller as the visiting celebrity.

On a more serious note, I already feel that each and every one of my purchases from Jim Stinson, Richard Simon, Bill Corcoran, Ron Gordon, Doug Averitt, and Kevin Keating has come with a LOA (which may someday come in useful when the time comes to part with my collection); each came with a invoice written on company letterhead which I have saved. Nuf said.

I'm not an old school collector so most of those questions i couldn't answer. I've only been collecting autographs for 15 years. I am a member of 5 different hobby boards and when myself or someone else lists an autograph for sale, the first thing always asked is if it has a PSA/DNA or JSA cert, with the exception being on SCN where people trust my opinion and my money back guarantee. It helps that SCN is an actual autograph website with experienced collectors, where as the other sites are more on the card side. Like I said before, I only submit the items I want to sell to get authenticated, unless I'm listing them on SCN, but even then I still can't fully price on it compared to if it came with a cert.

I buy autographs all the time without certs. Heck I don't even own an autograph with a certificate, except for a few pack pulled autographs. I buy all my autographs on ebay and know they are the real deal.

I have read this thread and would like to chime in with my 2 cents for all its worth. I purchased a large lot of 60,000 signed cards from all sports from an original collection through the help of the most reputable dealer i know and one of the hobbies must trusted honest people. With that being said I have been scanning and listing for 2 years and still have not made a big dent in this unbelievable collection. Many expert collectors such as Olbermann, and a few others who have multiple complete sets have been my best customers. There is no doubt these are all 100% legit autos with most being acquired in person at sporting games, spring trainings, and other venues. Considering I have thousands of singles which include hall of famers, deceased, stars, and tough autos that value atleast $25 each or more, I have considered slabbing to maximize my profit. Here is my take:

PSA- I have been submitting regular unsigned vintage cards for awhile only to be disappointed in the lack of skilled grading. I have recently had PSA 5s go to trimmed, PSA 6(mc) go back to 6, a 4 to a 7 amongst other nonsense. With that being said I realize that PSA/DNA should maximize my value on my signed material. I called twice with follow ups to show interest in submitting 1000 cards lots for PSA DNA blue flip only to get ignored and calls not returned.

JSA- I called Spence recently to try to talk to him about possibly submitting a deal in bulk and have BGS slab them (like the holders) and got a different authenticator. I left my number and he never called me back nor did anyone else from the company. I was even referred to him by the reputable dealer who knows him personally.

My take is that PSA and JSA must be swamped with so much business that they do not need mine. I will give JSA benefit of the doubt for I bet Jimmy never even got my message, but still needs to know whats going on. PSA on the other hand has 0 customer service.

I think SGC can become a real player here if they step up and play their cards right. Auto original cards are becoming evermore red hot in this hobby and if they can give a good service to dealers and collectors alike for a reasonable price, (not $15 or $20 per card) then they can take alot of PSAs pie in time. JSA will most likely not be able to compete considering beckett gets their hand in the cookie jar. SGC MUST step up their promotional game, really plug this and step up the website etc. They must be ready and willing to give the collectors good deals and great service with this service and undercut the other 2 companies. Perhaps even a blue label vs. green or something to set them apart. I may give them a call tomorrow and see what they have in store and I would be willing to give them a try. Right now PSA has the market and there is no need to give service. I think competition of quality is healthy and SGC would be able to deliver if they push hard.


Jason

You are correct. I do have one question. All the above named people have authenticated your collection. God forbid you now need money and you want to sell this collection. Who would buy it with the names you mentioned on the cert. You cant sell it on Ebay no one has any idea who these people are. Now you go to an auction house who does know who they are.
What happens? You now pay twenty percent to have it authenticated by the same TPA's. Now the the two or three wonders of the autograph world now say it is not authentic. Who are you going to sell it to ?
I must make this very clear I would trust all the people named above more than any TPA. I am just trying to relate to you what the public thinks.

Shelly is right on the money. He could not have hit the nail on the head any better. The bottom line is that it's not what people that know autographs believe, it is the common rube that just wants to feel good about his purchase. Anybody that has collected and bought autographs over the years would feel very comfortable buying from any of the guys listed. Those are not the people we are talking about.

BUT, people are sticking their head in the sand if you do not believe that having the PSA of JSA cert increases the demand for your item. The only arguement is that does it increase the amount more than the cost you incur. It's just like saying that encapsulation / grading does not help or increase the sale of a card. It's an arguement that just doesn't hold merit.

Sounds like good marketing to me.

Shelly and Jason H.; you are both correct . . .
 

I often forget that as an autograph collector who's primary focus (for the past 10-15 years) has been on obtaining obscure ballplayer autographs, that I have marginally little in common with the majority of baseball autograph collectors requiring a TPA. That's why I enjoy this forum so much. Regardless of how main stream, or obscure an individual's collecting focus is, the contributions by all members make for interesting reading, learning, and community sharing.

I have a couple of thousand people on my mailing list.
I have sold thousands of autographs through my mailing list. It is my main source of business.
Many members of Net54 are members of my list and many have bought great items and many have been disappointed by missing out on great items, sorry guys most things I have are only one of a kind and you have to be quicker on the trigger :).
In all the time that I have done this, I have only twice been asked if an item came with a TPA COA and that was from two totally new members of my list.
People who know me, know that I do not use TPA's and yet they have great trust in me.
The people who know me know that I would not try to sell an Ed "Delehanty" letter or try to sell two George W. Bush autopen letters that I had at the same time for easy comparison.
Find the experienced and knowledgeable dealers and auction houses and stick with them.

Richard no one is saying that be the people that you sell dont trust you. I am saying if they need to sell because of an emergency would they get the same money because of your cert or would they have to spend money on a new cert from one of the TPA or put it in an auction to get the price its worth.

JimStinson
 

The answer to that question is simple, I buy collections ALL OF THE TIME that have been sold by me, or any of the other reputable dealers that have been mentioned here . Either from the original collector or their estates. I will occasionally ask to see a bill of sale but never a COA.
Most realize a substantial profit too over what they originally paid, especially over the span of the last 30, 20 or even 5 years.

And who better to sell to then the fellow that helped build your collection in the first place , lended free advice, gave opinions for free, and helped the collector avoid many of the hobby's horror stories.

In fact I recieve on average a collection or two a week and negotiate a deal. Maybe once a year I have to send a collection back because we can't agree on price but I honestly can't remember the last time I've ever had to send one back.
__________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

That's a great point, Jim. This thread had done a pretty good job making me feel awful about my autograph collection but what you wrote above makes me feel a lot better. And to think, it was a pretty obvious concept that I should have thought of myself...like Richard, keep up the good work!

PS...forgot to say thanks as I picked up a really nice Allie Reynolds from you a couple weeks back. Hope he gets in the Hall some day...great pitcher!

i always ask people do they want to get a cert from psa or jsa or find out if it is real? most just want the cert. i do have SMART PEOPLE who would send me stuff because they know other smart people would see my name on a cert and be confident it is real. i actually have a few who want to send me their stuff right now, because they want to know if it is real or not and why and an certification that is backed up by exemplars and evidence, and no secrets.

it only goes so far, good marketing, lousy customer service, in time that plan will fall flat on its face. it will take someone to make a major push and have transparency, customer service, be accountable to the customer.

for now it may be working because abc is the same as xyz. same pricing structure, same customer service, same coa, same authentication.

woolworths used to be the biggest store chain on the planet, and i am sure the owner thought it would never end. its ends sometime, everything does.

who is psa, what is psa's last name, does Jsa have a middle name?

i have never heard of the authenticators psa and jsa because authenticators are people and those are names of companies.

you have to educate them. tell them, "well let me introduce you to" ...

get a resume and reference sheet from those people and hand it out at the shows when they ask who they are.

counter with "who is psa"? "who is jsa?" which individual authenticated the psa or jsa item you are interested in. if they can't tell you, explain it to them, ask them "why do you trust the name psa or jsa when you do know who looked at it? hand out sheets with some of very bad mistakes they have made, and ask those people if they feel comfortable with those authentications.

My guess is that when and if SGC starts authenticating autographs officially, they will say who are their authenticators. Until then, some of us are arguing about an event before it has (or hasn't) happened.

I'm surprised that you haven't created such 'sheets', in pdf format so that you can more easily advertise your personal disdain for these companies. If it's all true, I don't see what your concern might be, and now that you are recommending that others do it, I REALLY can't see what your concern would be.

SOGOTP

I have been told, by good sources, that dealers, including those who are big ebay sellers, know that an item is not good but it has a TPA cert and that is all they care about. Knowing it is not good they still go ahead and sell it.
It has a plastic tomb and a cert,,, it is good to go :(.
I have been told that this is the case but no evidence was shown to me to back up this story.

JimStinson
 

The blind leading the blind.....Kick it Ray !
"What'd I Say"
_____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

I don't really think it is too much to ask to know the name of the EXPERT whose opinion you are paying for. Just seems like so much common sense to me.

JimStinson
 

Was able to secure a photo of one of the "experts"......Common sense ??? what in the world is common sense ?
________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

"Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtain."

Which mutual funds do you own? Most people can name the fund, not the fund manager. The reputation of the company is the most important. People are always replaceable. PSA and JSA hire folks who they trust won't tarnish their reputation. If they do harm, they would be replaced. They survive and built a market because their level of expertise is pretty good. That means they get it right most of the time. In this world where we rely on the opinions of others in almost all aspects of our lives, right most of the time is all one can really expect.

there are collectors here that do that. i have been told that despite the evidence presented, that spence certed it and thats all they care about.

the oscar bonavena on ebay right now was returned by the first bidder who won it and returned it due to the fact its no good, even though it has a psa cert. the dealer relisted it. it has a psa cert by the way. who cares what the people with 20 or 30 years boxing autograph experience have to say about it.

some guy at psa who saw "Rocky" 5 times said it was good, so it must be.

i know there are people out there who know some of there stuff is no good, but sell it anyway due to the fact they won the "cert lottery"

the james corbett that was no good has a jsa cert and the holyfield slabbed card has a psa cert, and we presented the facts and those owners still love their psa and jsa certed autographs.

I'm beginning to hope PSA certed Travis' birth certificate.

this statement is wrong on so many levels, its ridiculous.

psa and jsa dont hire people who know autographs to authenticate, they hire them for marketing purposes. psa hires autograph runners who are well connected into the ebay and storefront markets, not for their experience in knowing and authenticating autographs.

these people they hire are connected into the "on the street" market and have many contacts and psa wants them to bring in business. knowing the autograph is secondary.

steve grad "in person autograph runner"
zach rullo "in person autograph runner"
kevin low "in person autograph runner"
brian sobrero " in person autograph runner" who once tripped tiger woods and sprained tiger's knee due to over-aggresive pursuit of woods autograph.



thse guys are not replaced. wny? because the customers are not aware they are doing harm. its a "trust me, i know what i am doing and that autograph is (good/no good)",

there is no auditing function. a money market fund has hard outcomes that are quantifiable, you either lose money or make it, and decide to change funds. that is why you dont have to know the name of the fund manager, he will be retained or fired based on their results.

now people will say that psa and jsa are doing a good job because the autographs are accepted on ebay and auction houses. but they are erroneously assuming that auction houses and ebay know good autographs from bad. they say that because others accept the certs, that they must be good. but others say the same thing. It's a case of both parties relying on the others acceptance to justify how good the tpa is doing, but neither is doing any inspection, it's circular logic, but no meat in the sandwich.

name a customer of psa and jsa who quantifies the results of the authentications they get and decides to continue with that company based on that? no one does. it's quite the opposite, many people tell me that they know psa and jsa aren't very good, but ebay accepts the certs and it is what others want so they just go along with the "Game".

i have said all along you can either get a psa or jsa cert, or you can find out if the autograph is real.


the customer doesnt really know if that autograph is good or bad if it has a psa or jsa cert. they are just going along with what psa or jsa says. there is no consumer reports for autographs that can compare, audit, and give results.

psa and jsa expertise is NOT pretty good. it is lacking in many areas. Pretty good is not good enough. Getting it right MOST of the time is not good enough.

51% accuracy is good enough? That's most of the time.

flipping a coin is 50%, and it's free. they need to be right all the time minus a very miniscule amount of human error. obviously you havent seen the nine trillion examples we have been posting over the last 4 years.

i hope you expect more competancy from your gas line installer, your brake mechanic, your day care provider.

+1

We agree to disagree on the level of competence of the tpas. Are you saying psa or jsa is equal to global or morales or ace? For the shear number of autos they look at, their record is pretty good, probably over 95%. You're saying they are wrong half the time? There are 781 psa mantles. Pick out the 380 that you think they got wrong.

Will people please stop comparing PSA and JSA with Morales, et.al.?
PSA and JSA actually try to authenticate. They're just not that good at it.
Morales and his ilk are NOT authenticators. They give an automatic thumbs-up to everything. They are very good ta what they do. And what they do is defraud the public.

i know know about my mutual funds, but this thread continues to pay dividends!

/popcorn!