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-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   1952 Bowman Stan Musial PSA 10 on eBay :o (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=253426)

Neal 04-13-2018 05:02 AM
Beautiful card and congrats! Enjoy!

Personally, I find the 52 Musial to be amongst the greatest cards ever created.

UFFDAH 04-13-2018 05:25 AM
AQUARIUM --- BINGO!!!!

BOBBY W ---- I learned the hard way about Battlefield when I first got back into collecting. What a hassle pain in the butt that was.

ALR-bishop 04-13-2018 07:15 AM
Musial
 
UfFDAH

As someone who grew up in St Louis in the 50s and got to see him play many times, and experienced the kind of person he was in that community, I congratulate you on getting such a fine example of one of his cards. I collect ungraded sets and would not know a 10 from a 9 but it sure looks like a nice card to me. :).

ullmandds 04-13-2018 07:15 AM
Do i not remember more than 1 long thread where Brent was shown to be less than a straight shooter???

UFFDAH 04-13-2018 07:40 AM
ALR - that is awesome that you got to see Stan the Man play!! He was way before my time but my interest gravitated to the Legends right away in 1981 as a kid when first collecting.

Neal - I agree there are some non-rookie cards that are just iconic and the 52' Bowman Musial is one of them with the image portrayed. Others to me are the 64' Topps Rose, 48' Leaf Babe Ruth, 38' Goudey Joe DiMaggio and for sure others.

Thanks all for the congrats on this string and through PM's. I replied to the PM's just now so hopefully they worked as I am sometimes clumsy on the computer.

Glad its Friday!! Tonight I think I will finally celebrate the card with a cold one. A classic vintage Musial deserves a classic vintage beer and for me I think its gonna be an Old Style!!

Peter_Spaeth 04-13-2018 08:55 AM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal (Post 1766899)
Beautiful card and congrats! Enjoy!

Personally, I find the 52 Musial to be amongst the greatest cards ever created.
I would rank it second among Musial cards, to this one.

Stonepony 04-13-2018 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1766981)
I would rank it second among Musial cards, to this one.
To each his own, but I too find the 53 Bowman to be Stan's most beautiful card.

Peter_Spaeth 04-13-2018 09:22 AM
1 Attachment(s)
This one has grown on me as well.

luciobar1980 04-13-2018 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1766981)
I would rank it second among Musial cards, to this one.
It's definitely between these two for me, but the '52 is my favorite. Both really nice.

Paul S 04-13-2018 11:22 AM
Apples-To-Oranges
 
Unfair to compare. 52B is color art reproductions of actual photographs; 53B are stunning poses and photography and is probably my favorite set of the Fifties (meaning today;)), and the 53B Musial pose seems so candid - who can resist?! However, I don't know if it's the reflection of the green paint of the dugout interior or the photographer forgot to bring his light meter, as the color of Stan's face, depending upon which print-run version you are looking at always somewhere between jaundice and Martian. Hence, 52B for me...at this moment.

Anyway, great looking 52B, OP, and congrats.

Eric72 04-13-2018 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1766861)
...I would call you by your name, but you haven't given it.
I was thinking the same thing...especially after reading his opinions regarding particular persons and companies.

Neal 04-13-2018 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1766989)
This one has grown on me as well.
much nicer than the 53 Bowman imo .... and may actually be 2nd behind only the 52B :)

Stonepony 04-13-2018 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric72 (Post 1767061)
I was thinking the same thing...especially after reading his opinions regarding particular persons and companies.
That rule is enforced less often than jaywalking.

swarmee 06-08-2019 07:05 AM
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=106
Altered; he wished he could have had it cheaper. Well, it only cost $3K, 7 months earlier in the PSA 9 holder.

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1886613)
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=106
Altered; he wished he could have had it cheaper. Well, it only cost $3K, 7 months earlier in the PSA 9 holder.
But the flip only said 9 bro. He wouldn't have wanted it.

Leon 06-08-2019 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonepony (Post 1767102)
That rule is enforced less often than jaywalking.
The name is there now. Admittedly I missed it before. However, if you think you will lose sleep over some of the board naming issues you can always PM me to alert me and it will be taken care of.
Or you can just throw snarky comments around as you seem to do. It is much better than being helpful, right?

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 07:27 AM
The buyer is aware of the situation and will be refunded.

From BO.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am aware through 312. I had already alerted PWCC and PSA. Yesterday PWCC sent me a label to have the card shipped back and I am expecting a refund. Will circle back with the final results once I have them.

bobbyw8469 06-08-2019 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1886613)
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=106
Altered; he wished he could have had it cheaper. Well, it only cost $3K, 7 months earlier in the PSA 9 holder.

LMFAO!!!! Is there a card that this Moser guy HASN'T gotten his grubby hands on??? It seems like he has touched ALL Mantle rookie cards.

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 (Post 1886627)
LMFAO!!!! Is there a card that this Moser guy HASN'T gotten his grubby hands on??? It seems like he has touched ALL Mantle rookie cards.
Sadly, Gary is but one of a number of guys who have been at this game for many many years.

calvindog 06-08-2019 07:42 AM
I’m sure the PSA boys are concerned about this card and their iron-clad guarantee.

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 1886630)
I’m sure the PSA boys are concerned about this card and their iron-clad guarantee.
This worked just as Sloan said, contact the seller. No hit to the guarantee, unless there is some adjustment between PWCC and PSA.

Dpeck100 06-08-2019 07:44 AM
What exactly was done to the card?

I see a black spot looks removed and the white is obviously now red.

Is this technically recoloring?

For some reason I recall when this listing was up people thought it was trimmed.

MULLINS5 06-08-2019 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 (Post 1886632)
What exactly was done to the card?

I see a black spot looks removed and the white is obviously now red.

Is this technically recoloring?

For some reason I recall when this listing was up people thought it was trimmed.
Color touch, too

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 (Post 1886632)
What exactly was done to the card?

I see a black spot looks removed and the white is obviously now red.

Is this technically recoloring?

For some reason I recall when this listing was up people thought it was trimmed.
Yes, there was concern about the card not having at least one rough edge.

swarmee 06-08-2019 07:48 AM
It was; read page 1. Recoloring is fairly obvious once you know where to look.

MULLINS5 06-08-2019 07:50 AM
Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the wrestling all star sets were altered

Dpeck100 06-08-2019 07:52 AM
I don't find it odd that in the day of age where you can get rust stains out of travertine tile that there are formulas that will clean a card. I do find it odd that ink of some kind can be added to a card and not be noticeable under some form of black light or magnification.

swarmee 06-08-2019 08:00 AM
Who's to say it can't be detected yet? Maybe UFFDAH can run it under a blacklight for us before he mails it back.

calvindog 06-08-2019 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1886619)
The name is there now. Admittedly I missed it before. However, if you think you will lose sleep over some of the board naming issues you can always PM me to alert me and it will be taken care of.
Or you can just throw snarky comments around as you seem to do. It is much better than being helpful, right?
He wrote that 14 months ago.

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 (Post 1886640)
I don't find it odd that in the day of age where you can get rust stains out of travertine tile that there are formulas that will clean a card. I do find it odd that ink of some kind can be added to a card and not be noticeable under some form of black light or magnification.
It's like PEDs, the masking technology is ahead of the detection technology.

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1886641)
Who's to say it can't be detected yet? Maybe UFFDAH can run it under a blacklight for us before he mails it back.
I've been told they are able now to avoid blacklight detection.

Leon 06-08-2019 08:08 AM
I never said I was fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 1886642)
He wrote that 14 months ago.

bobbyw8469 06-08-2019 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1886648)
I never said I was fast.
LOL!!!! It's ok....I've read this novella before. The tortoise beats the hare.

calvindog 06-08-2019 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1886648)
I never said I was fast.
LOL. Well, I’m guessing he’s had some time to reflect on what he did and has some remorse now.

Leon 06-08-2019 08:14 AM
Yeah, about as much remorse as you have for your escapades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 1886650)
LOL. Well, I’m guessing he’s had some time to reflect on what he did and has some remorse now.

Exhibitman 06-08-2019 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFFDAH (Post 1766736)
For the record I was the winning bidder. I am not stupid nor naïve. I graduated from college Cum Laude and own/run a multi-million $ company that sells into major retailers across the USA. I collected as a kid in the early 80's and my mom would take me to cards shows when Larry Fritsch had all the goodies. I am a meat and potatoes kind of guy that knows how to outfox and trap coyotes and I enjoy matching wits and killing big Whitetail Bucks who have a superior sense of sight and smell.

I bought the card because I simply love the fact that it is a HOF Musial and a fantastic image of him and that it is an extraordinary 66 year old example that made it through all the pitfalls from antiquated manufacturing/distribution and dodged the bullets of kid handling, bike spokes, tape, thumb tacks, and the list goes on to become a PSA 10.

I'm not a flipper, set builder, registry collector, or a Flip Chaser.

My collection consists of mostly Rookies but also some special non-Rookies plus vintage unopened. Baseball, Football, Basketball and Hockey. And a few non-sports. I respect all cards from PSA 1 to PSA 10 and respect all collectors.


This is my very first and only Musial and have been patiently waiting for a special one for a number of years since I got back into collecting. I may not own another Musial.

I may or may not sell my valuable collection some day. Hopefully some of the extra special one's like the Musial will be passed down.

All in all I really like and appreciate the card not only because it is Musial but because of all its attributes and yes for sure because it is a PSA 10.

Do I wish I could have got it for less?? Heck yeah, but I'd be kicking myself today if I put a top bid in of $15K.
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...e/Lumbergh.png

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 08:21 AM
Bad week for the buyer. A 25K or whatever card he bought exposed as altered, and now his name is outed. What next?

bobbyw8469 06-08-2019 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman (Post 1886652)
Don't worry....maybe Moser can work up another '10' for you....in case you didn't like that one.

Goudey77 06-08-2019 08:27 AM
Wow this is awful. I have no words. UFFDAH will fortunately get his refund.

swarmee 06-08-2019 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goudey77 (Post 1886659)
Wow this is awful. I have no words. UFFDAH will fortunately get his refund.
Maybe CGC will slab it for him? I wonder if there's a video that explains it?

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goudey77 (Post 1886659)
Wow this is awful. I have no words. UFFDAH will fortunately get his refund.
He's lucky BO was able to out that card. Most altered cards are not going to be traceable using their methods.

japhi 06-08-2019 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1886654)
Bad week for the buyer. A 25K or whatever card he bought exposed as altered, and now his name is outed. What next?
UFFDAH has a pretty incredible collection, all high grade and I suspect lots bought from PWCC. He posts pickups on the CU boards regularioy.

He has the means to go after PWCC. They coached him to buy this card that was scanned twice and sold twice by them in a period of 7 months, they had to know the card was altered. I hope he goes beyond just a refund, and that the instinct isn’t just to protect his investments.

My guess is folks that have large investments will lay low and work refunds, and these cards will stay in the hobby. I hope someone in the hobby pulls a William Koch and goes public to help clean up the hobby:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/billion...nterfeit-wine/

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by japhi (Post 1886667)
UFFDAH has a pretty incredible collection, all high grade and I suspect lots bought from PWCC. He posts pickups on the CU boards regularioy.

He has the means to go after PWCC. They coached him to buy this card that was scanned twice and sold twice by them in a period of 7 months, they had to know the card was altered. I hope he goes beyond just a refund, and that the instinct isn’t just to protect his investments.

My guess is folks that have large investments will lay low and work refunds, and these cards will stay in the hobby. I hope someone in the hobby pulls a William Koch and goes public to help clean up the hobby:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/billion...nterfeit-wine/
Guys like him are in a position to make a difference here. Presumably this will smash the level of trust he articulated before and he will look closely at his other purchases. As will other guys who have bought all this high end and stickered stuff over the years, at least some of which likely was bad.

swarmee 06-08-2019 08:53 AM
Yeah, Nats Turner should also be inspecting his collection. UFFDAH's response on blowout to this card being altered seemed completely devoid of emotion. The exact opposite of his thrill in purchasing the card.

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1886670)
Yeah, Nats Turner should also be inspecting his collection. UFFDAH's response on blowout to this card being altered seemed completely devoid of emotion. The exact opposite of his thrill in purchasing the card.
I suspect there are lots of high end guys in addition to Nat that have bought very heavily out of PWCC.

Scott L. 06-08-2019 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1886670)
Yeah, Nats Turner should also be inspecting his collection. UFFDAH's response on blowout to this card being altered seemed completely devoid of emotion. The exact opposite of his thrill in purchasing the card.
That struck me as well.

Scott L. 06-08-2019 09:00 AM
I feel really bad for the guy. His genuine joy for owning the card poured through in his posts. One of the worst feelings in life is to really trust someone and have them abuse that trust.

japhi 06-08-2019 09:01 AM
He is a successful guy, he is not going to lose his mind on a message board over a card. He knows he can get recourse.

The concern is his collection is full of these top grade cards, and he is a buyer at almost any price. Brent probably saw him as a mark. One thing to buy cards that were alterted, quite another to be coached into buying altered cards. How many altered Moser cards did Brent walk him into? It would be personal for me.

I feel for the guy, followed his posts in CU he seems like a solid guy that loves the hobby. I hope he shares, at some point, his thoughts on all of this. We need a heavy hitter to step up and shine some light on this.

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2019 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by japhi (Post 1886676)
He is a successful guy, he is not going to lose his mind on a message board over a card. He knows he can get recourse.

The concern is his collection is full of these top grade cards, and he is a buyer at almost any price. Brent probably saw him as a mark. One thing to buy cards that were alterted, quite another to be coached into buying altered cards. How many altered Moser cards did Brent walk him into? It would be personal for me.

I feel for the guy, followed his posts in CU he seems like a solid guy that loves the hobby. I hope he shares, at some point, his thoughts on all of this. We need a heavy hitter to step up and shine some light on this.
He said, I think, that he also discussed how high to bid with Brent. Ugh.

My own cynical prior comment:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe it's just me, but if I'm looking for an opinion on what to pay for a card, I am likely to ask someone other than the seller.
__________________
Stuff trumps all in this fraud and ostrich hobby.

swarmee 06-08-2019 09:15 AM
Sure is easy to shill once you've told the auctioneer your max bid.


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