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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>How is this a 1938 Goudey proof when Hubbel is not in the 1938 Goudey set?? Dan.<p><br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/1938-GOUDEY-PROOF-CARL-HUBBELL-CARD-GAI-AUTHENTIC_W0QQitemZ200261522937QQihZ010QQcategoryZ 106179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/1938-GOUDEY-PROOF-CARL-HUBBELL-CARD-GAI-AUTHENTIC_W0QQitemZ200261522937QQihZ010QQcategoryZ 106179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a>
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>GAI said so, after all!
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>jdrum</b><p>You missed it, it's a "Goudy" proof, not a Goudey proof. I've never seen it. Not sure what that is.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I don't know what makes it a proof, what dates it at 1938, or how they determined it was produced by Goudey. This is completely irresponsible.<br />JimB
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Seller has 10 different cards from this "set" on Ebay. <br /><br />I wonder what they really are. <br /><br /><br />Maybe someone could call GAI... maybe next Monday when they are open.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>He has Slaughter which started in 1938 I believe and Hubbell who ended in the early 1940s. So maybe they are correct? How can they slab that like that???? I hope they have some information that I am missing. Dan. The backs favor a 1935 Gooooody not a 1938.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />The back refers to Mickey Cochrane which makes the whole thing even more of<br />a mystery.<br /><br />Why did GAI assume it was from Goudey and from 1938.<br /><br />We should hear from the Chief Grader at GAI<br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Two clues to how they dated it. Slaughter was a rookie in 1938 and it says that on the card. And Gee (Gerald) Walker was traded before the 1938 season and it says that on the card. <br /><br />So the earliest it could be is 1938. Could it be later, or a reproduction, or a fake? Who knows.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Great points Jim, and how do we know it is Goudey? Is that on any of the cards? I didn't look too closely, running out to golf.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Bruce is correct though. The puzzle back is Mickey Cochrane (The 10 different cards only show 4 different backs.) and Cochrane retired after the 1937 season. I guess you could presume that the combination of Slaughter, Walker, and Cochrane narrowed it to 1938, but Goudey??? (or even Goudy)
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Brian T.</b><p>I have never seen the fronts of those cards before, but the backs are identical to the 1935 Goudey 4-in-1 set - including the puzzle piece designation, and the corner art. In the 1935 Goudey set, the puzzle pieces form nine different pictures: Detroit Tigers team, Chuck Klein, Frankie Frisch, Mickey Cochrane, Joe Cronin, Jimmy Foxx, Al Simmons, Cleveland Indians team, or Washington Senators team. The interesting thing about these puzzles is that there are more puzzle pieces (72) than cards in the set (36). As a result, all cards have several different backs.<br /><br />So, in short, the puzzle piece of Mickey Cochrane fits the Goudey conclusion, but the front is a mystery. As an aside, Carl Hubbell was not in the 4-in-1 set. Again, the front of that set didn't show just a single picture, but was divided in fourths with 4 members from the same team (i.e. Brandt, Maranville, McManus and Ruth from the Boston Braves)<br /><br />Brian T.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Chris Counts</b><p>That looks like Joe Medwick's photo on the Frank McCormick card ...
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Red</b><p>Front info dates "cards" to 1938. Slaughter referred to as rookie with last year's ML record. Camili was with Phillies 1937 and Dodgers 38. Some other cards refer to 37 season. Puzzles are 6 piece configuration.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>ok the year is nailed down, backs are exactly like the 1935 set. Goudey made an interesting set in 1938 so maybe they started with these and changed their minds? Very interesting!
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>How do we know it's a Goudey?- how do we know it's even a baseball card?<br /><br />Looks to me like a cut out picture glued to a 1935 Goudey. GAI made a mistake and needs to recall this silly thing.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>YOU GO BARRY! I am trying to collect all facts before I slam anyone. I would actually be shocked if GAI slabbed a glued together never seen before issue wouldn't you? Flags go up immediately and they would see if the 2 pieces were attached and not printed don't you think? Just some thoughts here. Dan.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say this is a card of some sort. Then why is it a 1938 Goudey proof? And why would Goudey use the back of a regular issue 1935 Goudey? That sounds more like printer's scrap.<br /><br />(I'll get your T206 out shortly Dan. Thank you). <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>It's interesting but I'm not ready to write it off.<br /><br />The backs of the second series of '38 Goudey cards make reference to an additional 24 cards that were never actually produced. I've often wondered what they were, or where they came from.<br /><br />In 1937, Goudey acquired the assets of the National Chicle company and began using the Diamond Stars name on the backs of the 1939 R303 premiums. After the 48 cards in the '38 set, it took Goudey three years to release another set of cards (besides the premiums, which I believe were used to sell Diamond Stars Gum).<br /><br />Of the 10 cards offered by this seller, two of them - Rudy York and Zeke Bonura - are a part of the '38 Goudey "Heads Up" set. Given that each of the subjects in the "Heads Up" set were duplicated twice, it makes no sense that those players would be issued a third time. It also makes no sense that while there's a Hubbell, Slaughter and Hartnett, there is still no Bill Dickey, Mel Ott, Mickey Cochrane, Lefty Gomez or Ted Williams. It also makes no sense that there would be only ten cards, since the Heads Up press sheets included 12 cards each (although it could be that two cards disappeared over time, or that the seller is still holding two more).<br /><br />The copywriting on these cards is really poor - unlike the copywriting on the other Goudey cards. However, the stats on the Zeke Bonura card, and the reference to "last year," date this to 1938 for sure.<br /><br />At the same time, the cards appear to be black and white, which would make sense given the economic and wartime climate in which they were issued. The puzzles on the back seem to mimic the '35 Goudey design (as has been mentioned in this thread).<br /><br />In my opinion, Goudey did SOMETHING in 1938 after the first 24 subjects in the Heads Up set were issued. That something never translated into commercially-produced cards, and I've often thought that the evidence was burned up in the furnace with all the other important paperwork from that company. <br /><br />I'd like to get my hands on one of these cards, pop it out of that holder, and see what kind of stock it's printed on.<br /><br />-Al
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Rhys</b><p>Considering that you can see part of the 1935 Four in One card beneath the paste job on this card<br /><br /><br />And that you can see the blue borders peaking out on most of the others, I think you have your answer.<br /><br />Rhys<br /><br />I cant get the link to work, but it is the Harry Danning card.<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/1938-GOUDEY-PROOF-HARRY-DANNING-CARD-GAI-AUTHENTIC_W0QQitemZ200261525636QQcmdZViewItem?hash =item200261525636&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C39%3A1%7C66 %3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/1938-GOUDEY-PROOF-HARRY-DANNING-CARD-GAI-AUTHENTIC_W0QQitemZ200261525636QQcmdZViewItem?hash =item200261525636&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C39%3A1%7C66 %3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14</a><br /><br />
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Good catch, Rhys, but I'm not sure that Global would slab an obvious paste job. There must be something about the card that made them think it was real. But I'm curious about why they're in Global slabs and not PSA or SGC.<br /><br />-Al
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>jay wolt</b><p>Al, Did you contact the seller for more info.<br />Like where they originate?<br />were there any others (as you stated there should be 12 not 10)<br />& why GAI was the grader of choice, perhaps other grading companies<br />turned him down to slab em for lack of evidence of what these are.<br /><br />Could be an interesting find after 70 years
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Jay, I did send the seller a note. As a guy who has a big chunk of his hobby time (and money) invested in 1938 Goudeys, I am extremely curious about these. I'm dubious about them, but there are enough interesting details that I'm not ready to completely write them off yet.<br /><br />-Al
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Rhys</b><p>I think you would have to have some pretty impressive accompaning evidence to support a new find when they are obviously paste jobs and the years dont match up. Whether this was done in 1938 or it was done recently to deceive, the end result is the same, these are just paper photos glued to 35 goudey cards unless you find something with it from Goudey saying "This is a test issue" or something they cant really be considered anything else in my opinion.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>....but on that Danning "card" you can see the Danning front was pasted on top of one of those 4-in-1 cards. Indeed, you can see the top of the two top boxes at the top edge of where the Danning cover was pasted.<br /><br><br>_ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ _ <br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for Net54 T206 archive, signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>jay wolt</b><p>Al - let us know the info that the seller shares with you.<br />Regarding GAI, I would imagine Mike Baker would authenticate<br />& grade this batch due to its importance in the hobby.<br />And save the 1969 Topps commons for the other graders.<br />Hopefully he'll chime in to this thread.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>This is one of those cases in which the answer seems so obvious (two cards pasted together) you wonder what the grader saw -- that we're missing -- that caused him to not reject the cards. Common sense tells you there must be more to this ...
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I'm with Rhys 100% on this one. I think this is just a mistake and it shouldn't have been slabbed.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>I see the blue lines of the 35 Goudey below! How can that be graded??? We have to be missing something. GAI has some good people there and I can't imagine they would slab pasted together crap and label it some proof card. I am swaying over to the Rhys - Sloate arena but for now, I want to give Global the benefit of doubt. Dan.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Dear r337man,<br /><br />HI I WAS TOLD THAT IT IS AN UNISSUED 1938 GOUDY TEST PROOF THAT NEVER GOT CIRCULATED, ALL THESE PROOFS ARE NEVER ISSUED AND UNCIRCULATED. THEY ARE THAT RARE TRULY EACH ONE IS 1 OF 1 IN THE WORLD.THANKS FOR LOOKING
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>I guess that settles it.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>I got exactly the same response as Dan did, word for word.<br /><br />I get so pumped when I see some new thing related to the '38 Goudeys. Sometimes it's tough for me to be cynical, but in this case it appears warranted. <br /><br />-Al
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>This seller also had a group of very dodgy boxing cards for sale closing today. They were supposedly GAI authenticated but had a plain paper label. Someone may be taking the GAI name for a ride here. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Excellent point Adam! You should be a lawyer! I never thought of that. Dan.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>"Someone may be taking the GAI name for a ride here. "<br /><br />Heh.<br /><br />-Al
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>The numbers check out with GAI's website. <br /><br />I don't think the seller's trying to pull anything but if anyone's been had, it's GAI.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Alan U</b><p>Not sure if anyone noted this before, but the cert. number comes up on the GAI website:<br /><br />Manufacturer 1938 Goudy Proof <br />Player CARL HUBBELL <br />Sport Baseball <br />Cert Number 10443493 <br />Grade Authentic <br />First Graded No <br /><br />It's interesting it says "First Graded No"<br /><br />-Alan<br />
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>WOW! Just looked at the Danning card, ok, I am 100% with Rhys and Barry now! Sorry Rhys and Barry, forgive my ignorance or maybe it was just me wanting these to be legit. GAI needs to buy these and get them off of the market! I know Joe Orlando would have already cleaned this mistake up in minutes and taken care of everyone involved! I just ditched writing that.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Red</b><p>That Danning card certainly settles what they are. Without documentation from somebody connected with Goudey they're just cards a kid made up a long time ago with some glue.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Dennis</b><p>look at the left border on the enlarged photo....it's a bad scissors cut.<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200261524774&indexURL= 0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200261524774&indexURL= 0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting</a><br /><br /><br /><br />
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>I have no direct knowledge of these cards and hesitate to muck up the water, but here goes...<br /><br />Pending any statement from GAI, is it possible that these were a mock up, made by Goudey, using old cards as a backing, with a "proof" front applied over the old card. <br /><br />Of course, to make that determination, you'd need some pretty solid provenance from the seller, from GAI or from Goudey. <br /><br />Hard to believe they have existed for 70 years and are just surfacing now. <br /><br />
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Jon Canfield</b><p>Maybe the flips aren't misspelled at all and these cards were created by a kid named "Goudy" circa 1938. So, in fact, these are his proofs for a set that never came into fruition.<br><br>================================= =====<br />For the premier online souce of information on baseball-related cigarette packs, visit <a href="http://www.baseballandtobacco.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseballandtobacco.com</a>
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>It might take some time but the easiest way to tell, at least to me, if these are "proofs" or not would be to see if the pictures and captions are from any books or magazines. <br /><br />If there is a Baseball Digest, for example, that has these pictures and captions in it then some kid in the past probably cut them out and pasted them over 1935 Goudeys cards. <br /><br />Now, if nobody has ever seen or can find any of these pictures in any book or magazine then there is a good chance that Goudey made up some mock fronts and pasted them on some left over 1935 cards they had lying around just to see how they might look IF they were ever put into production.<br /><br />I think they are NOT proofs and just some cutouts pasted onto 1935 cards. If so, my question is, what players are underneath those cutouts and what damage might the glue or adhesive have done to the fronts?<br /><br />David
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>I think at this point, GAI should at least comment on these abominations.
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Josh Evans</b><p>I recognized the front immediately <br />It is a clipping from a vintage magazine<br />I do not recall which one<br />It has been pasted on the back of a 1935 Goudey 4 in 1<br /><br />Seems like par for the course for GAI<br />My dealings with them were awful<br />Josh<br /><br />
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>Wayne Grove</b><p>I agree with Josh. I am pretty sure I have seen these pics in a magazine of some type. Also in case you want to bid on one and soak off the glued on photo the hidden 1935 Goudey cards would be as follows: Picture 4 - Card A would have on the front Hugh Critz, Dick Bartell, Mel Ott, Gus Mancuso. Picture 4 - Card B would have on the front Pie Traynor, Red Lucas, Tom Thevenow, Glenn Wright. Picture 4 - Card C would have on the front Charlie Berry, Bobby Burke, Red Kress, Dazzy Vance. Picture 4 - Card D would have on the front Red Ruffing, Pat Malone, Tony Lazzeri, Bill Dickey. <br />Picture 4 - Card F would have on the fron Pepper Martin, Bob O'Farrell, Sam Byrd, Danny MacFayden.<br />There were 5 different backs not 4 as stated in a post above. Wonder what his reserve is?
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1938 Goudey Proof
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>GAI WHERE ARE YOU??????????????????????
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Well this sucks. I Just won the 1938 GOUDEY PROOF BASEBALL GABBY HARTNETT GAI AUTHENTIC. So should I get in contact with GAI or the seller? Rob http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWNX:IT
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The seller. I emailed the current GAI and received this response:
"Hi The card was graded by Global Authentication and was one of the three labels used by the company. The company is no lnoger in the business of grading cards. If you need anything else let me know. Best, Mike Baker Global Authority" |
Who is Archive and why is he using our name?
In his post with regard to the 1938 Goudey Archive attributes a post to us
that we never made. We take our posts very seriously, and we believe that attributing a post to someone else is a crime. Archive please issue am immediate apology. We are prepared to take further action, if necessary Bruce Dorskind America's Toughest Want List |
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